'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

Hey guys! Remember the saying!

Better dead then red. Capitalism and healthcare do not go together, neither do any other social services. Could you imagine actually having to share your details to the police to get them to help you? How about the fire service?

Catch my drift.

reply to post by Foppezao


well said

star for sanity!! LoL

reply to post by MacDonagh


Very witty

that was like a mini monty python sketch lol

Originally posted by Lazyninja

Originally posted by System

Why is the NHS Orwellian?

Americans call NHS Orwellian since they have to pay for it whether they use it or not.

The fact that their defense budget is being misused as an offense budget is something which has escaped their notice though

There's something else that seems to have escaped their notice.

They are paying their health insurance every month. Whether they use it or not.

Now, where do they think that money goes? That's right, to pay someone else's bill.

It is no different to the UK NHS, except that it costs more, and you can still end up with a huge bill when said insurance decides they're not going to pay out.

Funny how nobody noticed that.

Originally posted by jd140

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by RRconservative

 

RR....you are showing your true colors, again.

Dr. Hawking was diagnosed when he was in his 20s. He had no "status" then, he wasn't "famous", he was just a UK citizen getting the same attention as any other citizen. You are deperately wavng your hands, and trying any tactic you can to please your masters at the Fox "news" channel.

But, embrace ignorance, it's your right as an individual. Sad, but still your right.

That is why I posted that his opinion on the matter is dated.

I doubt he has used the system in the last 10 or 20 years.

I await your insults that you are throwing around freely.

Hawking's was in hospital recently - news.bbc.co.uk...

Oh dear, how's it feel to be wrong once again?

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by jd140

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by RRconservative

 

RR....you are showing your true colors, again.

Dr. Hawking was diagnosed when he was in his 20s. He had no "status" then, he wasn't "famous", he was just a UK citizen getting the same attention as any other citizen. You are deperately wavng your hands, and trying any tactic you can to please your masters at the Fox "news" channel.

But, embrace ignorance, it's your right as an individual. Sad, but still your right.

That is why I posted that his opinion on the matter is dated.

I doubt he has used the system in the last 10 or 20 years.

I await your insults that you are throwing around freely.

Hawking's was in hospital recently - news.bbc.co.uk...

Oh dear, how's it feel to be wrong once again?

doesn't mean he wasn't private- or that he not used private care in the past, or that he would still be alive if he lived in the US, or whether he would have died had he lived in Japan

etc etc etc

reply to post by blueorder


That's really clutching at straws, first of all Hawking says he would not be alive if not for the NHS then you ask if his care is private?

The clue is in the title

BTW he was in hospital here just for the sake of clarity.

Addenbrooke is an NHS Foundation Trust:

NHS foundation trusts (often referred to as foundation hospitals) are at the cutting edge of the Government's commitment to the decentralisation of public services and the creation of a patient-led NHS. NHS foundation trusts are a new type of NHS trust in England. They have been created to devolve decision-making from central government control to local organisations and communities, so they are more responsive to the needs and wishes of their local people. The introduction of NHS foundation trusts represents a profound change in the history of the NHS and the way in which hospital services are managed and provided.

source

Doesn't say anything there about private care now does it...

[edit on 14/8/2009 by budski]

Originally posted by dbates
You mean that that a Cambridge professor, one of Britian's most revered mental giants, gets good health care? Great Scott what a shocking revelation! Okay what about the rest of us who aren't the Ivy League type?

Cervical cancer ran in Katie Brickell’s family, so she tried to get a routine pap test. That’s no problem here in the United States, but Britain’s National Health Service refused the procedure because she was only 23

[edit on 12-8-2009 by dbates]

How many people die in the US because they cannot afford healthcare??

Govt. healthcare insurance has no drawbacks that weren't there before. Unless you are selfish enough to protest against contribution towards other people's healthcare who cannot afford their own, yet don't mind your govt. bombing brown people.

There may be a time when you are the poor person desperately needing free healthcare, and you will be glad it's there because everybody's taxes made it happen.

Originally posted by budski

That's really clutching at straws, first of all Hawking says he would not be alive if not for the NHS then you ask if his care is private?

The clue is in the title

Two points- at no stage has he said he has not used private care (now don't get me wrong, he may have used the NHS all his life, though the point about some people being more equal than others stands)


On the GENERAL point of him being alive because of the NHS, for such a smart man, that's a pretty odd statement- the only way that could be proved is if there were several parallel universes in which several Hawkings were subjected to the exact same life experiences, only in different countries with different care systems

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by dbates
You mean that that a Cambridge professor, one of Britian's most revered mental giants, gets good health care? Great Scott what a shocking revelation! Okay what about the rest of us who aren't the Ivy League type?

Cervical cancer ran in Katie Brickell’s family, so she tried to get a routine pap test. That’s no problem here in the United States, but Britain’s National Health Service refused the procedure because she was only 23

[edit on 12-8-2009 by dbates]

How many people die in the US because they cannot afford healthcare??

Govt. healthcare insurance has no drawbacks that weren't there before. Unless you are selfish enough to protest against contribution towards other people's healthcare who cannot afford their own, yet don't mind your govt. bombing brown people.

There may be a time when you are the poor person desperately needing free healthcare, and you will be glad it's there because everybody's taxes made it happen.

on average he is only more likely to die 0.9 of a year earlier than someone in the UK, which could be as much to do with fat americans as anything, who knows, there are so many variables which will affect the life expectancy average

Hawking received NHS treatment in his 20's when he couldn't afford private healthcare, and so yes it saved his life.

Any other argument that he may or may not have received preferential NHS care or private care after he became a prominent professor is irrelevant.

Although he did receive NHS treatment in hospital April this year, and he seems to have recovered well from the chest problems that caused he admittance to Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge.

19 pages in and folks from across the pond are still arguing about whether his opinion is valid. The first sentence of this post proves that his comments are perfectly valid.

I was going to read the entire thread, but page 2 and page 19 has the same pointless arguments, so I don't think I'll bother.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by john124
Hawking received NHS treatment in his 20's when he couldn't afford private healthcare, and so yes it saved his life.
[edit on 14-8-2009 by john124]

balls to that, you don't know he would have died at that time, and how do you know what the cost would have been and what he could have afforded (which is a separate point)

[edit on 14-8-2009 by blueorder]

[edit on 14-8-2009 by blueorder]

Originally posted by blueorder
Two points- at no stage has he said he has not used private care (now don't get me wrong, he may have used the NHS all his life, though the point about some people being more equal than others stands)


On the GENERAL point of him being alive because of the NHS, for such a smart man, that's a pretty odd statement- the only way that could be proved is if there were several parallel universes in which several Hawkings were subjected to the exact same life experiences, only in different countries with different care systems

No, he has said something which you find hard to believe - that does not make it an odd statement.

If he had no care he would die, therefore the NHS has kept him alive.

That isn't hard to understand, and nor is it an odd statement.

If he lived in the 3rd world with relatively poor healthcare compared to the NHS he probably would have died long ago as they would not have the resources or maybe even the expertise to effectively manage his condition.

If you think that Hawking has used private healthcare, prove it.

You can't just say he MAY have done and expect such general supposition to make a valid point.

Originally posted by budskiNo, he has said something which you find hard to believe - that does not make it an odd statement.

he has given an OPINION- that is not to believe or disbelieve, as the only way he could have proved it is by having parallel universes with different Hawkings

If he had no care he would die, therefore the NHS has kept him alive.

That isn't hard to understand, and nor is it an odd statement.

It is in the sense that we do not know when hawkings would have died, and we do not know how he would have fared had he born in the US

If he lived in the 3rd world with relatively poor healthcare compared to the NHS he probably would have died long ago as they would not have the resources or maybe even the expertise to effectively manage his condition.

If he lived in the 3rd world hed be lucky to reach 40 regardless of his specific condition

If you think that Hawking has used private healthcare, prove it.

I've already said it is a possibility- prove that it is not a possibility.

FURTHERMORE if it turns out he hasn't I dont really care as I never said he did, just that it is a possibility, as it clearly is, he is a wealthy man, most wealthy people will avail of private care, including those hypocritical new labour folk

You can't just say he MAY have done and expect such general supposition to make a valid point.

I think it is valid in the overall discussion, but I agree he may not have used private care (more fool him)

reply to post by blueorder


At the end of the day, you need to prove 2 things.

1) That he would have stayed alive, contrary to what he says.

2) That he has used private healthcare.

You have brought both these things up, and they are contrary to what Hawking has said, therefore the burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by john124
Hawking received NHS treatment in his 20's when he couldn't afford private healthcare, and so yes it saved his life.
[edit on 14-8-2009 by john124]

balls to that, you don't know he would have died at that time, and how do you know what the cost would have been and what he could have afforded (which is a separate point)

[edit on 14-8-2009 by blueorder]

[edit on 14-8-2009 by blueorder]

From wikipedia:

During his first two years at Cambridge, he did not distinguish himself, but, after the disease had stabilized and with the help of his doctoral tutor, Dennis William Sciama, he returned to working on his Ph.D.[8] He revealed that he did not see much point in obtaining a doctorate if he were to die soon.

In 1963, he was diagnosed with ALS and he was just 21 years old. Doctors told him he probably had about two years to live and they were wrong.

Stephen Hawking's 2005 Biography: books.google.co.uk... Skaeo&hl=en&ei=LoaFStCcE5PUjAfz8-yiCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Hmmm so you see his excellent NHS treatment actually has contributed to extending his life beyond all expectations. A Phd student wouldn't be able to afford private treatment, and his family were not wealthy. Thankfully the NHS doesn't distinguish who to treat by how much they can afford to pay.

How's it feel when all the evidence supports what Hawking's said?

Balls to you Yanky, who can't use google to save his life.

Originally posted by budskiAt the end of the day, you need to prove 2 things.

1) That he would have stayed alive, contrary to what he says.

2) That he has used private healthcare.

You have brought both these things up, and they are contrary to what Hawking has said, therefore the burden of proof is on you.

Yeah, knock yerself out ironside, Ive said it is likely someone as wealthy as Hawkings has availed of private care- and the point stands- and if it turns out he hasn't then cool, the point was not a statement of definite fact

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by budskiAt the end of the day, you need to prove 2 things.

1) That he would have stayed alive, contrary to what he says.

2) That he has used private healthcare.

You have brought both these things up, and they are contrary to what Hawking has said, therefore the burden of proof is on you.

Yeah, knock yerself out ironside, Ive said it is likely someone as wealthy as Hawkings has availed of private care- and the point stands- and if it turns out he hasn't then cool, the point was not a statement of definite fact

Listen.... at age 21 Hawking's was not wealthy and was told he had 2 years to live by his doctor. Are you saying he became wealthy before he was 23 and private treatment prolonged his life??? If so, you need to prove it. Otherwise it's perfectly logical to accept Hawking's comments that the NHS saved his life!

[edit on 14-8-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by john124
Hmmm so you see his excellent NHS treatment actually has contributed to extending his life beyond all expectations.

well it really does not prove that the "excellent" NHS predicted he would die within 2 years, and that turned out to be a crock of turd- maybe it is in his genes, maybe he is just lucky, but without alternate universe Hawkings you can prove jack s

A Phd student wouldn't be able to afford private treatment, and his family were not wealthy. Thankfully the NHS doesn't distinguish who to treat by how much they can afford to pay.

You have no idea what his earnings were or sources of income, you have no idea how much private health care would cost for him (for someone young it is dirt cheap)


0.9 years brother you must feel well safe

How's it feel when all the evidence supports what Hawking's said?

there is no "proof" it is his belief that the NHS saved his life, but until we have duplicate hawkings living the same life under different health care systems it remains proof

Balls to you Yanky, who can't use google to save his life.

Brilliant stuff, Im from Belfast you cheeser

Originally posted by john124
Listen.... at age 21 Hawking's was not wealthy and was told he had 2 years to live by his doctor. Are you saying he became wealthy before he was 23 and private treatment prolonged his life??? If so, you need to prove it. Otherwise it's perfectly logical to accept Hawking's comments that the NHS saved his life!
[edit on 14-8-2009 by john124]

The wonderful NHS predicted he would live 2 years, they fairly effed that up didn't they, they got that wrong- maybe he is an unusually resilient man eh


You really cannot prove they saved his life and neither can Hawkings, you can think it, and that is fine