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'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

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posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by budski
No no no

Answer all parts of the question, in context and in full.

Cherrypicking only proves you have no argument.

Huh? What?


That was your question. You usually have long winded bloated posts which keep repeating the same point over and over again. That was the point of your entire post. You could have had a one sentence post.




posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Simple explanation.

Stephen Hawking is probably considered a special case considering who he is and his value to science. I'm guessing he has received special treatment from the UK NHS that many other "ordinary" people would have a hard time getting.

If true, another lesson for Americans looking at so-called healthcare "reform".



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
The first sign of losing an argument is calling someone you disagree with a troll.


Thanks so much for that I have it saved now. Next time I am bored I will go back through the numerous exchanges we've shared where you accused me of being one. Too funny.
Thanks.


BTW, the Crazy Store called, they need more DNA.

Back On Topic.

Just in case you are not scared enough about the boogey-man's Healthcare plan. Here's some logic from an everyday normal citizen.
Since a picture is worth a thousand words (or in this case a video.)
I kindly present the face of Healthcare opposition, speaks volumes.



[edit on 13-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by kinda kurious]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


WhatTheory is right, the CIA just posts what nations CLAIM, not the facts.

For example, WHO, and the UN in general, alongside most of the LEFT claim that healthcare in Cuba is great when it is not. I should know because I was born there, and experienced the healthcare there.

I also still have family in Cuba including relatives who are doctors, dentists, etc.

Last time I visited was in 2001, and things are even worse. There are barely any medical supplies.

While I was there one of my fillings in a tooth fell off, a cousin of mine who happens to be a dentist took me to her office, which had very old instruments, and the only fillings they were supposed to have was amalgam but there was none.
My cousin checked with other dentist friends and they had none either, and I was there for over a month. I asked her, even though I knew the awnser, on how long it would take to get amalgam, and she said months.

The only hospitals whch are full of prescriptions, and medicine are those which are for rich tourists, and for the Cuban elite.

Regular Cuban citizens cannot go to the hospitals for tourists, and the Cuban elite, and the regular hospitals are lacking essentials.

My family, and I have to send them money and medicine because there are barely any there.

Don't believe the lies of Michael Moore, he is just another fat rich a-hole who wants to make money by lying to you.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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All these threads referring to Canadian Healthcare and UK healthcare are irrelevant if the intent is to show they are good so the U.S. should get it.

Obama DOESN"T want single payer Healthcare. The type he wants is very different imo its very experimental so we need to stop discussing Single Payer systems like Canada and the UK.

I know the difference that between the UKs single payer and Canadas single payer so save your breath its on the frigging wiki page on Single payer.

The issue is that Obama is not pushing a single payer the U.S. has no infrastructure to accommodate a single payer because they have never done it it would be almost impossible to switch to a single system in the US they need the insurance companies to continue the cataloging of patients and all the nuances of healthcare delivery.

He said it in a speech once before he ran but that was to get votes he knows its impossible

To repeat OBAMA DOESN"T WANT SINGLE PAYER SO STOP TALKING ABOUT UK AND CANADA.

Here in his own words.
Obama on not wanting single payer

Personally i don't think the U.S. will ever have Healthcare reform or whatever the buz words are today. They will have a new war somewhere before the U.S. has healthcare

[edit on 13-8-2009 by Beefcake]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by kinda kurious
Thanks so much for that I have it saved now.

Wow, glad to see how enamored you are with me.



Next time I am bored I will go back through the numerous exchanges we've shared where you accused me of being one.

Yeah, that's because all you did was through insults instead of giving your opinion, facts or links. Big difference. Sometimes a duck is a duck.



BTW, the Crazy Store called, they need more DNA.

I bet you were waiting for weeks to use that one.



Just in case you are not scared enough about the boogey-man's Healthcare plan. Here's some logic from an everyday normal citizen.
Since a picture is worth a thousand words (or in this case a video.)
I kindly present the face of Healthcare opposition, speaks volumes.

I don't see your point with the video.

Are you demeaning him because of the way he looks or talks?

Because what is your point with what he actually said?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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I should add my view to this thread seeing as the NHS saved my life literally twice. I could have complained about a couple of things but im still here, that’s all that counts. Saved me from posting my “Goodbye my beloved ATS im going to die” thread.


Its correct to say no system is perfect and there will always be horror stories but overall the NHS is a top notch service for ALL in the uk.

Budgets overstretched? Sure, but again no system is perfect. Would be nice to live in a perfect world, but hey, your not delusional are you?

Anyway can you imagine a world without tax? Could you imagine the streets of London without its rubbish collected without emergency services? Its part of the package of a modern world. Not that we shouldn’t complain, we should, as said, keeps them on their toes.

I can’t really comment on American health care but from what i can gather it don’t sound good if you’re skint. Social healthcare is must for the entire planet. It brings well being to a population. Yep, we are very very lucky really. If anything it’s the pharmaceutical company’s that need their butts kicked. (Bloody hell I actually spelt pharmaceutical correctly!)



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Beefcake
Obama DOESN"T want single payer Healthcare. The type he wants is very different imo its very experimental so we need to stop discussing Single Payer systems like Canada and the UK.


So was Obama lying in the following videos or is he lying now?




He looks like a deer in the headlight with this video:



And this one really shows their true intent to eventually have a single payer system:



Sorry, but you are WRONG!!



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:43 PM
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WhatTheory, i love your style. Deny, Deny, Denounce, Deny, Deny, Denounce. Ad infinitum. Fantastic.

Keep up the sterling work.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by CRB86
WhatTheory, i love your style. Deny, Deny, Denounce, Deny, Deny, Denounce. Ad infinitum. Fantastic.

Keep up the sterling work.


Wow, thanks for those brilliant words of wisdom.

No wonder nobody cares what you have to say.


Yeah, how dare those pesky people with opposing views try to express their beliefs against a socialist healthcare plan.

I deny everything about this socialist government control healthcare system. Why on Earth would anyone want MORE sufficating government control, MORE taxes to pay for the plan and MORE government corruption, fraud and abuse.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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For all his 'knowledge' he'll be dead soon. Then he'll really know!



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 10:59 PM
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It seems to me the main argument from people against a national health care system is the "why should I pay for others ?". Well I admit I am a Brit and my understanding of the American healthcare system is flawed. However having said that doesn't the US system work via a subsidised payment system ?

I mean you all pay for private health care insurance, but lets say you need treatment that runs into $500,000 (not difficult to do if you have a major illness) and you only pay $40,000 a year in health insurance where do you think the other $460,000 will come from to pay for your health care ? That is right it comes from OTHER people that pay insurance but don't fall ill.

So to those going "oh I am not paying for others" might I suggest you withdraw from your private health insurance scheme because right now you are paying for others to receive treatment. That is how insurance works the many pay for the few and the company makes a quick buck off you at the same time.

The only difference is in the UK everyone (more or less) pays a NATIONAL INSURANCE with the option of you choosing for a private insurance if you wish. I know the NHS in the UK isn't perfect as many have said nothing is perfect in this world. In my 38 years of existence I have never used the NHS for anything, but I am happy to pay a small amount of tax for it to be there to a) help others and b) be there if I ever need help .

[edit on 13-8-2009 by charmingcharlie]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by charmingcharlie]



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 02:56 AM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
Why on Earth would anyone want MORE sufficating government control, MORE taxes to pay for the plan and MORE government corruption, fraud and abuse.


Just wondering 4th....

Do you oppose the spending on the military as well, which is equally as apt to corrupt practices, lobbying, misappropriation and more than its fair share of written off/badly run projects?

Or is it just the idea of saving lives, as opposed to removing them, that is so abhorrent?



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Yeah, how dare those pesky people with opposing views try to express their beliefs against a socialist healthcare plan.

I deny everything about this socialist government control healthcare system. Why on Earth would anyone want MORE sufficating government control, MORE taxes to pay for the plan and MORE government corruption, fraud and abuse.


Now we get to the crux of the matter - he thinks this is SOCIALIST rather than humanitarian.

Corrupt socialist government?

What socialist government?

And corruption is just a problem for the left of the political spectrum?
Now I KNOW you are deluded.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 03:55 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You say all that, and yet you don't provide the evidence that you demand from others.

This renders any point you make moot.

Please provide proof from reliable sources to back up your claim - just as you ask others to do.

Anecdotal evidence is not a reliable source



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by blueorder
 


Which just proves you haven't read it, or have a reading comprehension problem.

The CIA link puts Japan at 84.36 years, and the US at 78.11
In what mystical branch of mathematics is that 4 years difference?

Now, I repeat, would you like a life expectancy of 78 or 84, assuming you were going to be as "average" in this regard as you seem to be in the intellectual/mathematical stakes.

Or are you quiute happy to die young, simply because people were more concerned with corporate profits than the health of their fellow citizens?


WHAT ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT!


this is the link you provided

www.cia.gov...

Japan is noted as 82.12
US is noted as 78.11

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BUDDY!



I am 5"11 and weigh 13 stone, do a 5 mile run 3 times a week and weights 3 times a week- don't smoke, like a bit of a drink- in theory I should live to a ripe old age, regardless of residing in the US or UK, though I could be diagnosed with a terminal illness tomorrow and die next month.

The NHS isnt perfect and neither is the AMerican system, seems I am looking at things rationally and you are not- more americans are fatter and die from gun deaths which accounts for a large part of that life expectancy difference- couple of years either way in terms of national "average", doesnae really bother me



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 04:42 AM
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I have lived in the UK all my life and have generally found the NHS to be a fair system based on the premise of treatment to those who require it taking precedence over all other considerations i.e as one of the posters on this thread from the U.S mentioned,his treatment by a doctor was wholly dependant upon his medical insurance being fully paid up.I can see why U.S politicians may brand such a system as the NHS as "orwellian" and "evil" free healthcare? that will never do! I sincerely hope that,for once,our government does not bow down to pressure from the U.S on any potential future "alignment" of the UK'S Health care system with that of the US.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Simple explanation.

Stephen Hawking is probably considered a special case considering who he is and his value to science. I'm guessing he has received special treatment from the UK NHS that many other "ordinary" people would have a hard time getting.

If true, another lesson for Americans looking at so-called healthcare "reform".



When Hawking was first diagnosed he wasn't even remotely famous, and nor was he for many years after the initial diagnosis, so yet again you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

As far as the NHS goes, no-one is considered a "special case"

The needs of patients are met in accordance with guidelnes laid down by NICE - the National Institute of Clinical Excellence.

In Hawking's case, the guidelines stipulate the course of treatment, the drugs he should recieve, and the care he requires in order to manage the condition as best as possible, which all patients with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or Lou Gehrigs disease recieve.

He was diagnosed in 1962, became a fellow of the Royal Society in 1974, OBE in 1982, and published A Brief History of Time in 1988.

In other words, he recieved at least 26 years of treatment before he became anything like a household name.

So that kind of blows your theory right out of the water.

You see, in social medicine everyone is equal, and gets the same treatment for the same condition within the PCT that they come under, although some PCT's differ in practice they are still bound by the NICE guidelines.

But of course it's far easier for you to listen to the Monkey that is Sarah Palin than actually do any research on the subject.
You'd rather believe the propaganda.

Well guess what - they got it wrong again



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


Sorry, my mistake, the print off I did mixed up the figures somehow and put Japan where Macau should be and missing some figures off the end.

But the point still stands - just substitute Macau (which also has a national social healthcare system) for Japan.

My previous questions remain, and your level of fitness or otherwise has less to do with your life expectance than you think.

Ever heard of genetic factors?
Now, how would ou like to have a genetic disorder that wasn't covered by health insurance because they classed it as a pre-existing condition? (which happens all the time)

Think you might be glad of a social healthcare system then?



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by budski
You see, in social medicine everyone is equal, and gets the same treatment for the same condition within the PCT that they come under, although some PCT's differ in practice they are still bound by the NICE guidelines.


you see this is just a nonsense EVERY single person receives some sort of differential treatment, you may think this happens, but only in "textbooks" and "guidelines"- the guidelines may state what SHOULD happen, but then we descend into reality.

As for Hawkings staying alive, who knows, maybe his inherent DNA assisted his long term survivial, maybe since he became famous he has received differential treatment and availed of private care.


Either way, the US isnt Zimbabwe, and the NHS isn't perfect- I still resent several thousand pounds of tax payers money going to that person who lied about "depression" (aided and abetted by her GP) to get a tummy tuck

[edit on 14-8-2009 by blueorder]



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