America Won the Vietnam War ! - Yes you heard right., page 2

reply to post by esecallum

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First off your numbers are way off!

Second. Winning battles even if you win all of them doesn't guarantee victory.

Third. This is exactly the type of trash talk that gives us a bad reputation.

Fourth. When does school start again?



[edit on 13-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by OzWeatherman

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They always attack us first.We are defending.USA does not fire first.We have rules of engagement.

America saved Europe from Hitler,Comminists,Terrorists.We gave you Marchall Plan Aid.This is how you repay us?

Churchil was on his knees begging USA to save you lot.You were down to your last bullet.We sent you food parcels,clothes,logistical support.


You are ungrateful.

Remember AMERICA IS THE ONLY INVINCIBLE BASTION OF FREEDOM.

Without America it would be over run by barbarians.

Originally posted by esecallum
reply to post by OzWeatherman

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They always attack us first.We are defending.USA does not fire first.We have rules of engagement.

Sorry, where exactly did the Vietnamese attack you?? Last time I heard, Vietnamese soil was in Vietnam

America saved Europe from Hitler,Comminists,Terrorists.We gave you Marchall Plan Aid.This is how you repay us?

Churchil was on his knees begging USA to save you lot.You were down to your last bullet.We sent you food parcels,clothes,logistical support.

1. Im not english, Im Australian
2. Like usual, you were only interested in helping your allies, when it benifitted you

You are ungrateful.

Remember AMERICA IS THE ONLY INVINCIBLE BASTION OF FREEDOM.

Without America it would be over run by barbarians.

No one is invincible fool. Anyone that thinks that usually ends up crushed....ie Romans, Hitler

And according to the general ATS population, america at the moment is vulnerable

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

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You should really brush up on your history,

Ever hear of Gulf of Tonkin incident? It was the catalyst for the Americans to give themselves justification to attack the North Vietnamese. Unfortunately, it was a total fabrication of the truth.

The viet nam war was in full swing long before the gulf of tonkin resolution.
In 1957 400 southern government officials were assasinated by the communist insurgancy.
In 1959 the NV central commitee authorized full scale military opperations in the south and began to move troops and material into the south via the Ho Chi Min trail.

It was also the communist NV that invaded laos and cambodia first and instigated viloent communist revolutions in those countries.
Not even going to get into the terrible attrocities that the khmer rouge perpetrated on its own people.

The funny thing is in the end the NV never achieved more than what was originally intended for them to have, a fully united viet nam.

If the french and british had just allowed the vietnamese self determination to begin with this whole sorry affair could have been avoided.

A lot of people seem to forget that communism was spread at the end of a gun barrel, and not through popular action of the people supposedly liberated by the communists.
For all ther terrrible things that happened during the conflict why is it that the communsits get a pass for all of the atrocities they commited, and against their own people.

Last time I checked, it was the Soviets who destroyed the Nazis in WWII while the US helped defend the UK on one front and fought their own war with Japan on the other.

But I guess the Soviets were just evil communists that should be destroyed, right? They only covered about 1/3 of the globe at their peak but obviously 1/3 of the world's population is not able to think for themselves like you can, right?

Without the almost impossibley huge amount of material assistance that the us gave the soviet union during the war, they would have lost.

I suggest that you do alittle reading about this little thing called the lend lease program.

With out the 400,000 trucks supplied by the us, or 1,000 locamotives and the 15,000 rail cars, how many soviet soldiers would actually have made it from the safety of siberia to the front.
Or how many guns , and planes would they have had to fight with without the entire factories we built and shipped to the USSR.
Or the millions of tons of food stuff and clothing and other simple items required to keep an army functional, that the us supplied.

I dont recall there being any soviet bombers pounding the german industrial might into submission. And making sure they couldnt supply the troops on the eastern front.

I dont recall any soviet ships making any useful contributions to destrying the germany navy, the same germany navy that was destroyed to ensure the safe delivery of materials to our allies.


some people also seem to forget that in many places in occupied soviet territory the germans were seen as liberators from stalins rule, until they started to kill off people indiscriminately.




Interestingly enough the modern russian airforce acknowledges the contribution of lend lease
Russian airforce site about the Lend Lease.
lend-lease.airforce.ru...

But I guess the Soviets were just evil communists that should be destroyed, right? They only covered about 1/3 of the globe at their peak but obviously 1/3 of the world's population is not able to think for themselves like you can, right?

Yah right, what happened to soviet communism? Oh thats right it fell apart.

That 1/3 of the people you claim, didnt have a choice at being communists, or have you forgotten that the soviets absorbed several independant nations, formented violent revolutions in many others. And foced the sattelite states into submission through force of arms.

Or have you not learned that lenninist/stalinist ussr's goal was world domination.


Come on and stopp with the drivel.












[edit on 14-8-2009 by punkinworks09]

[edit on 14-8-2009 by punkinworks09]

Originally posted by punkinworks09
The viet nam war was in full swing long before the gulf of tonkin resolution.
In 1957 400 southern government officials were assasinated by the communist insurgancy.
In 1959 the NV central commitee authorized full scale military opperations in the south and began to move troops and material into the south via the Ho Chi Min trail.

What did the US have to do with NVA vs SVietnam before Gulf of Tonkin? I was pointing out the reason how the US got itself involved, and the reason why was to stop the spread of global communism. I'm quite aware that the NVA was already fighting before the US got involved, otherwise the US wouldn't have much of a reason to interfere (common sense I assumed).

A lot of people seem to forget that communism was spread at the end of a gun barrel, and not through popular action of the people supposedly liberated by the communists.
For all ther terrrible things that happened during the conflict why is it that the communsits get a pass for all of the atrocities they commited, and against their own people.

I'm sure just as many people died at the end of gun barrels for the sake of "democratic liberation", specifically by the US. The only difference is that American democracy really means the rich get the power and Soviet communism is when the peasants have their turn to rule.

Without the almost impossibley huge amount of material assistance that the us gave the soviet union during the war, they would have lost.

I suggest that you do alittle reading about this little thing called the lend lease program.

I'm quite aware of the program. It did indeed provide assistance to the Soviets. However, you are very misguided if you think that American support was enough to even make a dent in the Soviet war effort. Whatever American assistance given to the Soviets was just a benefit from the Yalta conference and considering the big three all foresaw the cold war, no serious assistance was granted.

Did the US provide the USSR with its millions of conscripts? What about their massive tank forces? Their guns? The US gave the Soviets assistance just like how the Soviets gave the US assistance, but neither gave the other anything very important.

The Soviets survived being raped on their home soil by the Nazi elite armies and they managed to scramble as much war resources and soldiers together as possible and launched a bloody but effective counter strike to take back their ruins of cities. They won with their cheap and effective technology and brutal tactics, plus the occasional talents (Soviet snipers with over 500 kills, you can't go wrong with that).

On top of their counter attack, they regrouped with their new T-34 battle groups and steamrolled all the way to Berlin while the Nazis froze their balls off because they were not allowed to surrender to such "subhumans". The Russians proved their ability to match a much powerful enemy with specialized tactics that always adapted to the warzone, as opposed to a standard.

Interestingly enough the modern russian airforce acknowledges the contribution of lend lease
Russian airforce site about the Lend Lease.
lend-lease.airforce.ru...

Who said it never happened? It's part of history. It's just not a big of deal as you make it sound.

Yah right, what happened to soviet communism? Oh thats right it fell apart.

That 1/3 of the people you claim, didnt have a choice at being communists, or have you forgotten that the soviets absorbed several independant nations, formented violent revolutions in many others. And foced the sattelite states into submission through force of arms.

Or have you not learned that lenninist/stalinist ussr's goal was world domination.

Come on and stopp with the drivel.

Dude, you're being extremely hypocritical of your own American views. If you think the US does not regularly engage in violence to force it's unilateral views on the rest of the world, then I feel sorry for you.

The Soviets were top of their game until they got hung up trying to landgrab Afghanistan. They lost that conflict not because they were inadequate, but because Afghanistan will never be conquered by a single force. The Soviet politburo decided that it would be arrogant for their superpower to carry on with such outdated views (rebellion is so 20th century) and decided to reform their country.

They did not collapse, they simply restructured for the better of their people. Of course with the break up of something as major as the Soviet Union, there were many problems in the transition. Internal nationalist forces wanted to continue the Soviet wet dream, breakaway states wanted as much independence and weapons as possible, and external factors like the CIA destroyed the Russian economy to ensure that Russia would not become another threat to their global power.

So really, believe what you want. I believe that Russia designed itself to be more free and modern from obselete Soviet ideals. As I look at Russia today, I see the vision that was made 20 years ago coming true. It has a rising economy, it controls a vast amount of energy, it has a strong and traditional culture, it continues to develop new technology, and it is modernizing its vast military. To me, that is the rebirth of a modern superpower while its rival has hit its full potential years ago and is now starting to fall.

reply to post by esecallum

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Could I point you to a book : Ape and Essence by Alduous Huxley.

New Zealand is definitely a country you should be worried about.

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by esecallum

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I thought I was immune to pointless ignorant posts but I guess not.
This is up there with the least intelligent threads of all time.

Don't quit your day job...if you have one.

Agreed, I didn't even know people who visited ATS could dream up (snip) like this (snip-snip).

reply to post by pizzaguy

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I agree that in war we all do not win. For example, I represent several individuals in VA cases. It is amazing that in the Vietnam theater, we had bases in Thailand, Laos and action in Cambodia. The vets that fought in these other areas are having a hell of a time getting benefits.

Part of the problem is a function on requiring the vets to prove they were injured in theater, combined with destroying many of the vets records in a fire in Maryland I think, and then failing to give full records of actions in theater. The problem is compounded by the continued failure to fully declassify documents such as the CHEKO report, and manipulating the Ranch Hand document; proven by Dr. Philip Mikalek in 2000, when he admitted as such.

It is hard to say you won a war when the fighters of that war are denied justice, data and the proper hearings.

reply to post by esecallum

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No words for you.......

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