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You must walk the walk-

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posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 08:08 AM
Hey all

Been doing some deep inner seeking and I want to share with others what my conclusion is.

For the last few years I have moved away from the OT teachings because I my inner core being knew that the OT God image was not the most highest, Holy, Divine image of 'God' that can be fathomed. Why would God ask us to better ourselves and 'do not kill' unless the image of God was also something that believes in 'keeping the good nature'. Why would God, something that is Divine and Holy, loose control of anger...why would God change due to impatient s? So I moved on from the OT and continued studying the NT and the teachings of Jesus. I also studied the gnostic texts of Thomas, Mary, and Judas. It does defiantly seem to me that due to the parables...and the things Jesus was known to say about the scribes making the lies....Jesus believed in the mystery of 'finding and seeking the 'way'. Jesus showed us the way through humble living for his spiritual self...Jesus transformed his earthly natures into the highest spiritual nature....which in reality of this....he does become 'God' in the image of what nature God is....which is something Divine and Holy. the OT....I can now see....these stories are purely symbolic!!!! Some of the stories might have a little literal truth about a person that really lived, but the majority is only symbolic and was written by people who were NOT trying to transform their earthly nature!!! They killed, they broke the there is no way they were walking the walk that would lead them to 'hearing from God'. What they were hearing was something in their mind saying it was ok to was ok to sacrifice life. They did have a piece of gold in holding the oral mysteries....but they did not understand the the writings of what they taught are misunderstood.

The sacrifices was a misunderstanding about transformation. The sacrifice was only to be symbolic of understanding...the fat being burned (the part that was useless) and transformed into the air when burnt. We are to be born by the fire...but only we ourselves can do this. It takes will to transform your earthly nature into spiritual natures. The OT image of GOd was not ever to be a real image of what GOD is....but yet in the earlier teachings it was a understanding that the masaic law was a law of nature...of cycles...of reaping what you sow. This whole understanding must be seen with reincarnation. You will reap what you sow...not because God chooses it to be this way....we also chose this way!!!! It is the only way. We are not to practice an eye for an eye in our law here on earth...for Jesus said...turn your other cheek!! When you turn your other is only the smiter who is effecting a negative seed in his own soil!! Do not be tempted by others wanting to bring you down a level!!

The mosaic law of do not kill stands today!! All things you do unto another is forming your karmic debt one way or the other. Can you change your debt....change your seeds you have sown....yes!!! With awareness of that you are ready to WALK THE WALK and not only talk the talk!!

Jesus did not come as a sacrifice!! He came to show you THE Way!!!! It is through deeds and actions and awareness!!! In order to shed your go into the closet (a alone place) and you forgive yourself and others for all earthly natures that lowered your spiritual nature!! You must be sincere....and it does not stop there!! If you really believe that you are here to transform will walk the walk. You will find your nature to transform to be more like the nature of Jesus. Earthly reactions of others wont bother you and you will be alight unto their darkness. You will not anger quickly and you will take care of your body (YOUR TEMPLE). Your earthly body is a tool for your to transform!!!! Here and now...bring Heaven to Earth. Jesus wasnt THE christ....he was A christ....we are all to pick up our cross of earthly natures....and be willing to not fight for this life and its primal natures. You must walk the walk just as Jesus did. If you think that another can pick up the cross for are misunderstanding. Jesus showed the ability we all have. Jesus said he came to keep the law....the law of the OT is the law of is the warning that in the cycles of eye for an eye is the law of karma!!! Beware of the law of karma....unless you want to keep coming to the place of 'gnashing of teeth'!!

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 01:48 PM
Ok well that sound nice and all, but The 12 apostles witnessed to his crucifying and jesus himself said he came as a sacrafice for his people, not only that but he said plain and simple that he died for people sins.

So that's firstly, and biblical.

He did come to die for our sins, and create the new sacrafice which i believe is holy communion talked about in malachias 1 and Daniel, and the Psalms, and all throughout the NT non of which is symbolic because the speech is concerned about a prophecy of a literal continual offering.

That's number two.

Thirdly, and this is where it gets interesting about the OT. We know God cannot blatantly contradict himself, and seem angry in the OT, and full of love in the NT.

Infact that same (just) anger was in Jesus when he cleaned the temple out pushing the tables of money over shouting at the people.

That same love is in the God of the OT. It's impossible to blatantly contradict yourself.

What you don't realize was the people who plotted against the Isrealites to take over their land or tempt the men, were all designs against the Isrealites from people God ordered to be killed.

Godm was trying to set up his kidngom, and evil people on all sides were trying to ruin it, and if he allowed them, then we wouldn't be here today talking in a mostly christian nation, which btw has founded the pirnciple of a free nation.

You can say the country was founded on freemasonry, but they adopted Christian philosophy which is why most the country is christian.

the teaching of freedom and respect for the individual and love for your neighbor.

God reads hearts and knew the plots against the Isrealites, and he knew he had to take them out, and he knew who would grow up evil and good, some he took to heaven and others got what they wanted.

since he supplies all grace and love in man, those who reject it have no love whatsoever, no fealing, and so you can't imagine the wiackedness of some of the tribes back than who attacked the Israelites.

Shoot those tribes probably kept their woman hostage and children and probably were living in hell, so point is we don't know the circumstance.

all we know is the the NT Jesus, is the same God according to the bible and he was pure love

turn the other cheeck. loving enemies. The same God who supposedly smited anything that moved in the OT. just isn't true.

Tons of loving passages are all throughout the OT, tons of them.

way more than the passages of war.

and remember who was writing the bible? prophets of the OT, who couldn't describe everything that was happening in the little room they had to wirte.

and so the OT days are over. We are in the age of forgiveness now and the new sacrafice.

Christ dying is like, My brother gets in trouble, big trouble at home, I know he can't handle the punishment, so I take the blame and take a beating or spanking for him and he promises to do it nomore.

Christ took our blame and took beatings for it. It's a mystery of love many understand and many don't. After death we will truly understand it.


posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 01:51 PM
link nothing....

Do we use a scapegoat and cast our wrongs onto someone else...or do we start to take the blame for our wrongs?

Do we blame Satan for misleading....and then throw our sin onto another being?

Or do we humble ourselves, and try to do right...knowing we are supposed to do this. When we we wrong 'knowingly' in the fact that we can later ask for forgiveness?

What seeds are we planting when someone else picks up the cross for us? What kind of spiritual being does that make us?

I think more is expected of us.

If your willing to walk the walk (Im sure most claim they do) then why is there a need for someone else to walk the walk for you?

Hoping some of you great thinkers will join in here....or at least challenge the thought!

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 01:56 PM
No no, it's not a sacpegoat, a scapegoat is for hypocrites who think they can get away with mruder and still get off.

No, they will pay. I said someone who sins no more and agrees to repremand their lives.

and trust me there are many test in life, which I believe are just and allow us to prove ourselves, whether we live for lust only, food only, stuff like money only, or live for God and prepared for the next life.

Oh there is great tests the saints went through, and they passed. Not unjust test but test that have to do with their own nature carnal desires.

but I'll let others respond, I want to read other peoples responses.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 04:21 PM
reply to post by JesusisTruth


You must of posted at the same time I was posting my 2nd anything in that 2nd post was not directed towards you...sorry for the misunderstanding...but thanks for replying again to the 2nd also!

OK...where we differ right off is taking the Bible as a literal. I cant say I know there were 12 apostles...or who or what they saw or believed. I wasnt there and so I seek more on what is the nature of an action or event...then what my fellow man wrote about it. It doesnt make it any easier that some of the earliest writings with actual names that match names from the days of Jesus and the 12 disagree with what we read today. To just assume its all in the right place, the right too risky for my soul. So....I trust, through rightful living...the Holy Spirit will teach me of what to seek. This is where I began to seek 'natures'.

Even though the Bible says all that it says...and you can talk of Holy Communion (an Earthly practice) and talk of the prophecies (which weren't new to any land...they all were waiting or had before waited for a virgin born from the gods or God, a savior).

My personal feeling on the matter at the Temple is that Jesus did anger, he was human, and he angered over them selling meat/flesh at the Temple for sacrifices. He came to end the sacrifices alright! But not to fulfill them.

You said God was trying to set up his Kingdom on Earth...and the evil people were ruining it. See....I dont believe that God needs an Earthly that just blows right by me. The Kingdom is is symbolical, it is deep, and many cant see or hear it...for they still need the milk and not the food. From the vibes I get when reading many scriptures, you had a group of people that claimed Jesus as the final sacrifice....I dont think it is clear that Jesus supported the OT sacrifices at all nor came as this.

Jesus, knowing what he knew of his inner most nature, knowing the Holy Spirit and dwelling with the Spirit....could only make the righteous choice in the position he was in....which was offer. Instead of fight....for his life of flesh...he knew with what the fanatics needed to stop the blood shedding, and with others claiming him to be the King that was prophesied about....he offered himself, for the sacrifices to end, and for a act of love for all to follow...he showed how to remain unblemished in this dark place. He showed how to transfigure the soul.

How do you think it is God could dwell with killers? And give inheritance to a man who lied and tricked to receive inheritance (along with his mother).

There is love in the OT. The Holy Spirit shows herself there most defiantly.

I find it very hard to believe that God was here....and it was obvious that he was here...because like you said, he was here making a kingdom....and people refused him as God. I dont buy that for a moment. If God was here building a would be obvious...all would know where they came from.

Can pure love change...if it could...then is it still pure?

A nature of Christ is the offering...of love....for all. YES! It should bring anyone to their knees to even think that someone took death at will....out of love for us.


I do not feel that Gods nature is a nature that must have or would consider needing a Earthly sacrafice for things we were put here to work on. We have known for thousands of years in all nations what is the right thing to do....but the Eathly nature rules over and over, and a way is created that leads away from the real truths that we must face.

We are here to become spiritual beings. All the tools were here for our learning before man could even write. God never needed anything of the Earth (communion/blood/burnt sacrifices) for anything. This was our wrong of trying to express the little keys of knowledge that was gained along different paths. Blood sacrifices run ramped in the old days....there was nothing new or special about them.

Now an offering...that is different. No one demands anyone to offer anything. The offering is the decisions of the person and then only. If someone is demanding it be a certain way..that is a sacrifice...offering is a gift.

As much as we probably disagree....I feel you have a humble soul. But what you believe takes alot more faith without reason that I just dont get anything out of anymore. I think the way the main stream believes....limits God to no end. God needs this...God needs that....

God needs nothing from this physical world....we need these bodies learn and transform. What came from God will return, just as a seed return to the Earth.


posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 04:50 PM
OT's thought's on the OT and NT

In the old testament God was perserving a race, to the exclusion of all other order to bring about a liniage (sp?), to bring a savior.

Who expanded that perserving to all mankind in the NT...JC was he.


[edit on 12-8-2009 by OldThinker]

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 05:05 PM
reply to post by OldThinker

Hi ya!

I understand this is what one see's with the literal readings of the Bible. Followed it most of my life!

I guess if God needed a savior to come....then mabey a race was to be saved....but they werent these great humble people like what one would think God would dwell with. They really dont seem any better of people then the ones they were ordered to kill.

God is just so much more then this! The idea that we need a savior goes against what I feel. How can my wrongs be placed onto another...even if they are like the good brother who may offer to do so for me.....I wouldnt allow it. I feel in my deepest being the wrongs I make are mine...and I will reap what I sow I truly believe...but unlike many that see this reaping of what sow to be a spiritual death or punishment in a hell like place....God makes many patient offerings for us...knowing in all good time...the seeds will ripen. God is in no hurry....and I believe we are not here by mistake! We are here at Gods will or we wouldnt be here.

I still see the OT as coming from a mystical teaching that could not be understood by men that were of primal ways.


posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 07:20 PM
I think you already know I am in agreement. But I think some of the OT is good, like Proverbs for example is one of my favorite books of the bible.

Proverbs 9

1Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

2She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.

3She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,

4Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

5Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.

6Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

7He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

8Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

9Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

See, this is actually what Jesus symbolizes and does - wisdom and understanding. Notice Wisdom "builds a house". And what is Jesus? A carpenter. Notice the bread, the wine, the table and such? Same as the last super.

It's all about understanding. If you look at Proverbs 8, it talks about wisdom and understanding stand at the top of the holy and guide men down the correct path and lead the way.

Why is this needed?

Psalm 111

10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Because you need that understanding in order to walk the walk.

As for sacrifice and such. That is completely misunderstood by modern Christians.

Hosea 6

6For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Should sound familiar, as Jesus repeats this. But all this stuff is in the OT.

Matthew 9
13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Sinners to repentance? What does that mean? Well, to sin means to make a mistake, and to repent is to fix/change it. So he came not for the righteous, but for those who were in error. Why? Not to be a sacrifice, but instead to bring and give them the understanding they need in order to walk the walk.

What he "sacrifices" is merely himself, in order to bring that understanding. As he knew those who hide that understanding for the eyes and ears of men will do whatever it took to keep that from happening, including killing him - which obviously happened. To switch it around to being all about that is IMO Satanic, and of this world. Who's kingdom is this?

I do think he does fulfill the laws. But he does that in order to show and give understanding on the proper way to follow them. And in the process of doing that, he also shows all those other laws to be of men, not of the father.

1 thing I've found out about the bible - it has both sides in it. It's a half and half mixture.

Btw, if you read the rest of the proverbs 9 chapter, you will see what is of religion - stolen waters and bread. And in the process, they do not really understand.

They like the sacrifice because it's easy for them. But I think you very well can see it is a broad path, that even the rich man Jesus turns away can do, and you can see that narrow path very much for yourself. And yes, it is your understanding that is allowing that, just as the bible says.

Thanks for the thread, it's been a nice pick me up. I can see the father within you.

posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 09:18 PM
reply to post by badmedia

Hello Badmedia!

Thanks for adding those scriptures! There are alot of things I read that I wish I could organize all together that show where I come to conclusions. You are always swift with bringing the right words from scriptures.

What do you think about the OT being more symbolic...showing that we are to transfigure our earthly nature into a higher divine nature? Mabey the true mystical meanings got lost in the literal translations.

Ill posts more to get kids in bed.


posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 09:21 PM
I would like to know how others interpret the parables of the mustard seed....and the vine yard story.

I think there is much in parables...and would love to discuss them all!

posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 12:16 AM
I disagree with you on your views of the OT, that the stories were symbolic only. My personal opinion is that they really happened and that they are now a template of things that can and do happen to us, as we go through life. I think Jesus came to do things on earth, as they are done in heaven and that when these things start coming to fruition, we have a merging of the physical and spiritual realities.

Look at your Mother's experiences - they are pretty mind-blowing - and her story is only one of thousands - possibly millions. She knows when she leaves this world, something much better awaits her. It's very sad, that she was so sick but when you compare it to the knowledge she gained and brought back - it's a mind bender. With that being said, I'm 100% sure that very healthy people can have experiences as well. This is where the stories, used as templates ( or your word "symbolic") come in to play.

I think we break down into two groups, those with experiences and those without. It's easy for the ones that have experienced things to walk the walk and talk the talk and herein lies the problem. It gets complicated trying to make those who don't believe to be receptive of things we try to tell them. I'm always taken aback when I meet someone who has never had something paranormal or something they just can't explain happen to them in their lifetime. I'm like - 'you've got to be kidding me..' I've even met people who don't dream or don't dream in color. These are the type of people I would most like to somehow teach the how, why, when, and where of God communicating to the living. But if they just want to pick apart the teaching and the teacher, they are not really interested in walking the walk - they just want to trample because they can.

posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:17 AM
reply to post by LeoVirgo

I for one would love to discuss the parables and to see what others think or have experienced concerning them.

The Mustard seed parable: In my experience the mustard seed parable and the one where the woman hides leaven in dough are basically the same. It is referring to the beginning stages and final culmination of what a person experiences when they are baptized by Jesus with spirit and fire. This is active participation in the kingdom of God. A mustard seed is first planted in the ground and then it grows into something huge. My spirit baptism started in my feet and went on for a period of about three months. It started as little zaps and now I can relate to the term "divine spark" that is found in some of the texts from the Nag Hammadi. Like the mustard seed and the leaven, the spark rises and mortal words can't adequately describe what happens at the events apex. But if I use the Bible and some of the terms found in the texts from Nag Hammadi, as a template, a person may better understand it.

Like Daniel and John of Revelations, I was unable to stand and fell face down and ripples and waves of pure love and ecstacy whirled through my mind. Reflecting back, I now understand why John the Baptist called Jesus the bridegroom, or the term 'one night with the king', and the significance of the Song of Solomon. It is what it is - divine union or another term you may have come across when reading texts from the Nag Hammadi collection - the bridal chamber.

Parable of the vineyard: It doesn't matter How late in life a person comes to the truth, all will be rewarded the same whether they walked the walk for fifty years or only five.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by Myrtales Instinct]

posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:30 AM

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
What do you think about the OT being more symbolic...showing that we are to transfigure our earthly nature into a higher divine nature? Mabey the true mystical meanings got lost in the literal translations.

Ill posts more to get kids in bed.


Well, in the end no matter what, it's all just a story to us. The entire bible is a story to us, because we were not there. As such, it is a matter of what understanding can we gain from it.

Do the literal stories themselves bring understanding to you? They do not to me. One of the first things the father showed/taught me is that the variables are not what is important. Those literal things are just variables. What is important is the understanding and things those variables express. Times, people, cultures are just variables.

Now, the focus on the literal is 2 fold. First, when focus is put only on the literal, then it is used as a way of blinding people from the understanding. This is the equivalent of being forced to repeat 1+1=2 as truth/fact, but being denied how to actually add(understand). This is a popular way to mislead/manipulate. Because they do not understand, this then allows those of power to do other false things. They can tell you 4+4=29 and other false things, and because those people do not understand they will fall for it.

On the other hand, among those with understanding, the symbols and such are often changed for protection. Lets say the current ruler is a 4, and the current place a 5, and what is going on equals out to 9. The true variables of the time were a 4+5=9. But that ruler is going to recognize his name/variable in the 4. So for protection we might replace that 4 with an 8, that 5 with a 9 and express the same understanding of what is going on as a 8+9=17. Then that ruler has no idea what they are actually going on about. The real meaning becomes "hidden" to only those with understanding. And yet, once a person gains understanding, then those things will pop out at them, like never before.

See, I read Jesus growing up and such. It never made sense to me. I didn't understand, and I was unable to do the above. Who gives a crap about Pharisees, money changers and such? I didn't see any such things. But then, after I gained understanding, then it popped out at me. The same words that were at one time meaningless were music to my ears. Oh how deep is that understanding. Now I recognize who the modern pharisees, the moneychangers and such are. They are there in function, but they changed the variables. Still the same expression though, same thing. A rose by any other name still smells the same.

So I think it's a mixture. At the end of the day, what you got to ask yourself is - Does this bring me understanding that I can apply to my life? If the answer is no, then what good is it for you? Does that mean there is no understanding to be had? No, but at the moment it is no good for you. And it is best to just accept that as fact and move along. One day maybe it will have understanding for you, just as Jesus did for me.

All things are symbolic, even your own life. It's just a matter of seeing it that way.

When I read genesis, I do not see a literal story, I see meaning and understanding behind it. And alot of that with moses. Do I think moses leading them out of Egypt has more meaning than just physical? Yes. But only if you understand. And the thing about if you understand is - you won't really need the bible itself and the bible itself isn't going to reveal things to you.

So, let me give an example. Moses, the sorcerers and the serpents. Did that literally happen? No. Sorcerers are politicians. The serpents represent wisdom. In the end, moses lays out his wisdom and it is so much greater than that of the politicians that it eats their wisdom and the politicians have no choice but to admit it etc. But now, in order to keep people from understanding, the focus is instead put on things literally, as if Moses was able to turn his staff into a snake, and the people say - well I can't do that! Very dis-empowering.

Plus, expressions lose their meaning and such in time and cultures. If this is on purpose or not is interesting, but either way it happens.

But I think the literal and the manipulation of such is what Jesus meant by the Pharisees/scribes sit in the seat of moses. They have replaced the understanding and wisdom with the literal world. Religion and the scripture is moved into authority, where it does not belong and becomes a replacement for god, rather than something that leads to god.

Remember this - The real war on god is a war on consciousness. As the father is within, that is what has to be pushed down. Physical wars are evil fighting evil, and to put people into fear in order to try and save themselves, in which they will take up the path of death and destruction further taking them away from understanding and wisdom.

So at the end of the day, it all comes down to a simple question - is this helping my understanding. If it is not, then push it aside.

posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 06:57 AM
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Hi ya Myrtales! Thanks for chiming in here!

Just as you find it hard to understand some things about others...I find it so hard to understand why others believe that God once talked with these men in the OT who seemed to of still done wrong things constantly....and God demanded they kill animals and place the blood on altars. This was nothing new in those times...every other belief system was doing the same thing. People can say that so and so proved Baal's prophets wrong by showing the real God did consume the offerings....but my spirit says that the Supreme God above all things never needed any blood offerings. Why does my spirit tell me this? Its not my own mind...for I followed the sacrificial ways most of my life.

I think here in lies the whole problem. We for far to long have thought God needs something Earthly from it animals killed, temples built, a box for God to dwell in....ect....I now believe God, the Divine One, is not the one that needed those things. I fear it is the fall of mankind and understanding for our purpose. I believe few will understand is very true...few can see past the Earthly things we are to transform.

Even though many see the sacrifice story as a story of love....people dont think much about what kind of nature that would show of God....that God, in order to forgive us horrid beings....needs a death of his son...needs someone to kill someone else...needs the commandment to be order for us to be saved. I mean wow....that is mind blowing that God would have to work that way. I would think at all not kill not kill. I wouldnt think Gods plan would ever involve any killing what so ever.

But people shrug their shoulders....and say....who are we to say what God will do????

God....placed his very own nature within us. In our practices of humble living...fasting....honest reflection....we can come to know this divine nature. We can learn from the Holy Spirit what the nature of Holiness means. We can be shown why God is God...and what makes God so different then the images placed apone Thee in the OT. You can say you know things...but I also, swear on my life....God never ever wanted anyone to kill any animal or being for another persons wrongs.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts...loved your description of the feelings the baptism brought you.

For me, even the babtism is symbolic. To think that dipping ourselves in water is like magic or something...its not. It is the mind set the being is in when they are 'willing' to offer themselves to Christ....or God...or what ever one chooses....there is power in the simple 'thought' and that alone can bring all sorts of funny and strange feelings.

In opinons always...

posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 07:09 AM
reply to post by badmedia

I have been thinking alot about being born here with a 3 fold nature. Mind, body and spirit. And also thinking the the original oral teachings probably focused alot on understanding how everything can pertain as different variables for each nature. I think this is what I am seeing in the OT....many things were used to understand how we transform the Earthly nature into a spiritual nature....using the mind...the consciousness.

Granted, this is a really rough idea on what I have been pondering on...things like this are hard to put into words....

Gotta get for now....but plan on reading up some things and posting more later on the natures and how we can find..through the guidance on the Holy Spirit...the nature of God and the nature that bore us.

My best to all

posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 02:53 PM
I am not one to quote alot of Scriptures...but I think its important for others to see that the entire Bible is not clear on what exactly some things may mean. There are plenty of writings that can take on a whole other meaning when the person is reading them to gain a wisdom, an understanding....instead of a literal telling of what we are to exactly gain from it. Surely....knock and it shall be not a literal meaning...surely parables are not literal....and if they are not...then mabey the stories of the OT are not literal...mabey the whole book of the OT is much more then are eyes are seeing....showing us Earthly transformations into a higher being, existence.

"And the disciples came and said to Him, Why do you speak to them in parables? He answered and said to them, because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given" (Matt 13:10-11 NKJ)

"And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know" (1 Cor 8:2 NKJ).

"Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts? For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little" (Isa 28:9-10 NKJ).

"leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity" (Heb 6:1 NIV)

"Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly-- mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready" (1 Cor 3:1-2 NIV).

"And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it" (Isa 35:8 NIV).

"Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful" (Rev 21:27 NIV).

"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it" (Matt 13:44-46 NKJ).

“How terrible for you teachers of the Law! You have kept the key that opens the door to the house of knowledge;
you yourselves will not go in, and you stop those who are trying to go in!”
(Luke 11:52 TEV)

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men;
for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
(Matt 23:13 NKJ)

The OT writer knew the secrets to the Kingdom within. The writer wrote with symbology because the simple mind was not nor could not understand. The teachings that came out of Egypt held keys to wisdom's, that was the understanding of energy incarnating, death, and the cycles of the soul. Sacrifices began as symbolic practices to show a transgression of energies….the fat burning by the fire, into thin air. The sacrifices were a human nature, expressing understanding of transformation. The key of wisdom here has been lost. It was not God who was demanding sacrifices; this was their cardinal nature expressing what it knew about cycles of life and the karmic law. In many religions blood sacrifices and offerings were made….the literal meaning of what this practice represented was becoming something it was not meant to be, and many have been mislead. Only a carnal nature will believe that God, their most divine part of them, needs anything of Earthly nature from them. We can use Earthly things to show understanding of something, but in the end, the understanding of the mind is what matters. Scribes tried to later add and translate the meaning of the mystical teachings, in result, the practice of taking the writings as literal caused people to stop looking for the deeper teaching about transfiguring the soul from the Earthly body. People would rather think they don’t have to pick up the cross….Jesus gave us an example….that it can be done…and there is very good reasons to make it happen.
If we were supposed to cling so close to written scriptures within books….then why would we be taught to let go of Earthly things, think with a inner eye to gain the light, to save up within us the things that can not be destroyed?

Nature shows us all about the karmic law of cause and effect. Nature also shows us, things return to where they come from. All the tools we ever needed have been here this whole time. Picking up your own cross is what Jesus showed us to do. The story of Jesus was meant to show again, the transformation from Earthly nature to Spiritual nature. It is a part of our path far beyond this sphere and our being is no mistake of any sort.

We are told to judge a tree by the fruit it bears…we are to do this with all people, even the ones we see as authors of any scriptures. We must look at the fruit of the people in the stories to see if the nature of that tree is of the carnal mind or the spiritual mind….this shows us if their wisdom's were of God (Holiness) or the ruler of flesh (carnal mind).

The only way to stop the karmic cycle, the law that is ruled by an eye for an to finally pick up your cross and walk the walk.

The symbology in the OT that speaks of building Earthly Temples shows how our Earthly bodies are needed for the transformation for a Spiritual Temple….a Kingdom within, the house made without hands.

Mystical teachings was nothing knew in the land...a esoteric teaching of Judaism is the Sefer Yetzirah....

Sefer Yetzirah (Hebrew, "Book of Creation[1]", ספר יצירה) is the title of the earliest extant book on Jewish esotericism.
The Sefer Yetzirah is devoted to speculations concerning God's creation of the world. The ascription of its authorship to the biblical patriarch Abraham shows the high esteem which it enjoyed for centuries. It may even be said that this work had a greater influence on the development of the Jewish mind than almost any other book after the completion of the Talmud.

It helps to understand why there was symbology, why the people were sometimes referred to things that are in nature, such as trees, stars, animals, and planets....why almost all religions use star prophecies and births of a god. Why certain numbers are repetitive in the Bible...such as 3, 7, and 12. It also shows, even back when the Bible was thought to be understood, there were many different understandings.

Just some thoughts....things that make me go hmmmmmmm

I think being born of the fire is a soul being reincarnated. I think the baptism represents when the soul truly needs no more births of the fire. The dove is ready to ascend. The Phoenix is ready to be born from the ashes.

posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 08:46 PM
reply to post by LeoVirgo

I recommend this Jewish guy. I agree with him a good bit, and in the link below he talks about blood sacrifice only being good for unintentional sins, and that sacrifice is the lowest form of atonement, repenting is the highest.

Also talks about how the bible says not to get caught up in blood sacrifice etc.

Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

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