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Guns At Obama Rally!

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posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


I really don't care what this guy's reasons or excuses are.

This is a meeting where the President is going to be speaking.

Particularly given the excessive paranoia (or concerns, if you prefer) and strong feelings of opposition, does anyone really think it's a good idea to let some guy carrying a gun in?

Sure, he said he didn't intend to shoot Obama or anything like that. Doesn't matter.

If he walked into a bank carrying a gun, or a store, or pretty much anyplace, he's at least going to cause a bit of a stir. Probably have a cop or two pointing their guns at him, saying freeze or something.

Probably get arrested.

You don't walk into a building where the President is going to be speaking carrying a gun - that should be just plain common sense. And if you do, expect the Secret Service to quickly swarm on you, take you down to the ground, and spend at least an hour or so getting grilled in a poorly lit room.

And if anyone doesn't see a problem with this, I have to ask - just how big a disconnect from reality are you working with?




posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Alien Mind
1. The reason why the representatives of the Obama administration are becoming reluctant to attend these gatherings is because they see that peope are not going to put up with there crap anymore. There so use to the people sitting down and not doing anything.


Bzzt! Wrong!

They're getting tired of trying to talk to people, trying to listen to their questions and offer answers, and just getting idiot after idiot who has no desire to listen, just wants to shout down the rep and anyone there who does want to ask a question.

I can't blame them. At the very least, it's rude. At most... well, I'd have to think about what to say at most.

If it were me, I'd just make it clear from the start - if you're there to ask questions, listen to the answers - ie, if you're there to act like adults, fine, you can stay.

Anyone who just wants to shout and drown everyone else will get escorted out the moment they start shouting.

This is just getting ridiculous. Behave or get out and let the grownups talk. And I don't give a good goddamn how worried you are.




posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Have you noticed that the debate has moved from health care reform to health insurance reform to "those crazy opponents of Obama"?

If you can't win on the merits of your position, attack your opponents personally.- Sal Alinsky.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by CharlesMartel
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Have you noticed that the debate has moved from health care reform to health insurance reform to "those crazy opponents of Obama"?

If you can't win on the merits of your position, attack your opponents personally.- Sal Alinsky.


And if they were acting like the rest of the grownups, that might be a valid point.

They're not.

They're behaving like a loud mob, totally uninterested in hearing anything their reps have to say, or letting anyone who wants to ask questions and get answers, speak.

So, yes - their piss-poor behavior is a valid point.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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Ben Franklin
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.

Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!




posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Nightflyer28
 



"This is a meeting where the President is going to be speaking. "


Hey, guess what.

The President is a man who puts on his pants one leg at a time. He is a citizen just like the rest of us.

The President is not a King.

The President does not have the right to deprive citizens of their god given rights simply by his presence.

The Constitution is not suspended within a 1000 yard radius of the President.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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I hadn't looked at this thread since I last posted, since I am sick and did not want to read confrontational posts. Glancing at it again, I see my posts got a lot of criticism, which is to be expected since there are a lot of gun advocates here. Let me clarify my position.

I do not believe in cowing down to government tyranny, etc. etc. I am a pacifist, though. I believe that if anything can indeed be called "wrong," it is violence in any form, regardless of reason or motive. I believe that whenever we resort to violence, we compromise ourselves.

Guns are tools of violence, and impersonal violence at that. At least with a fist or a sword you have to be close to your target, and you open yourself up to being injured or killed far more. With a gun, you can be a very long distance away and have more options when it comes to avoiding harm. I dislike guns for these and other reasons.

I do not believe that human beings should kill other human beings, (or animals, for that matter). If there is one universal moral/ethical directive, it must be to refrain from harming other people. Unfortunately we do not live by this, but we could.

Peaceful resistance makes more sense to me. Yes, you might get killed yourself, but how you look at that depends on your philosophy. I'm not much bothered by it.

And I still say it is absurd to think that guns are going to protect you against the government if push comes to shove. Why do you assume that everybody would be on the same page? How would you coordinate millions of people? How would you fight against bombs and biological weapons and who knows what else? If the government were disposed to become so aggressive in the first place such that violent opposition on a large scale was triggered, do you think they would hesitate to use every advantage they have?

The metaphor of violent resistance against an oppressive government such as is seen in fiction, like V for Vendetta and others, is great... as a metaphor. Fictionalized, symbolic violence to tell a story and inspire people is appropriate. But if you get the idea in your head that things would really work that way in reality, I believe you are mistaken. You can resist oppression without violence. It ultimately comes down to whether you believe an act of violence is in itself "wrong," as I do, or you believe that the motivation behind an act of violence determines its moral character. But the result is the same - a human being, related to you however distantly, is hurt or killed.

I just think it's better to live one's life in a peaceful way, unafraid of scenarios that may never happen. To get out of that violent mentality of being prepared to meet violence with more violence. Whether you accept it or not, your energy creates your world, and if you carry violence with you, that's exactly what you'll get.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by CrowServo
 


Guns are a tool of force equalization.

With a fist or a sword, the strongest man wins.

With a gun, a 90 year old grandma has the same odds against a 200 lbs thug as a cop.

This is the underlying primary reason why liberals hate guns.



[edit on 15-8-2009 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by CrowServo
I hadn't looked at this thread since I last posted, since I am sick and did not want to read confrontational posts. Glancing at it again, I see my posts got a lot of criticism, which is to be expected since there are a lot of gun advocates here. Let me clarify my position.

{yikes}



Oh my God.. what planet are you from? You are way too complacent and spoiled. You should be deposited in front of an advancing column of Jihadi warriors and test out your philosophy and then let us know how well it was received.

LOL



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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well this is interesting.

Video of a union thug attempting to intimidate William at the NH rally.

At first he didn't notice the gun William was carrying, but once he did, he left rather quickly hahaha.

The benefits of open carry.




Here is another video of the police interaction with William. NH police went out of their way to be polite, stay within the confines of the constitution, and to work with William in protecting his 2nd amendment AND 1st amendment rights.

Hats off to the NH police.



[edit on 15-8-2009 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


That 1st video should be looked at by everyone. People are trying to make the Anti Health Care Protesters out to be the bad guys, but look at Vito and Guido there, which side do you think they were for?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Just Curious as to why this guy would be wearing a ear-piece?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by Guru97
Just Curious as to why this guy would be wearing a ear-piece?


Why can he not wear an earpiece?? Lots of people wear an earpiece. How do you think the voice of the police detective is coming in so clearly??

What do you think all these ear buds are for peoples cell phones..they are an earpiece and also a microphone. Lots of people wear an earpiece. Nothing illegal or immoral about it.

Thanks to whoever linked these videos. Very interesting. Especially the lowlifes spitting and violating people...and conducting themselves as wildlife.

Orangetom



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by CrowServo
 


CrowServo,

I think you had better check your philosophy more closely and re watch the video someone posted.Watch the Thug closely. THe thug was unarmed ...ungunned ...unlike William Kostric. Notice who was doing violence and assaulting people ..openly and without restraint.

You need to take a serious look at your values and thinking after watching this video. The people who were restrained and very civil were the people who were armed with guns. The police detective and William Kostric. I also salute the Police Detective, Corey McDonald, for his cool, restrained, and very civil behavior. I am not so sure that the constabulary around here would be so civil.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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the only peopple who resort to or use assasination are the same ones all down the line. in all the presidential assasinations in america. same group was behind them all usaully a part of his cabinet or advisorsory committe, never has a commobn citizen assasinated a president.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Nightflyer28
 



"This is a meeting where the President is going to be speaking. "


The President is not a King.

The President does not have the right to deprive citizens of their god given rights simply by his presence.

The Constitution is not suspended within a 1000 yard radius of the President.


No, but given that he is the chief executive of the country, and given that Presidents have this strange tendency to sometimes be assassinated (or at least face the attempt), I think there's room for a little extra caution regarding people carrying guns in their vicinity.

Particularly given the high level of negativity re: Obama and his policies.

A guy with a pistol in a crowd shot Reagan. I didn't particularly care for Reagan, but I'd rather someone like him were voted out than shot.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by CrowServo
 

Guns are a tool of force equalization.

With a gun, a 90 year old grandma has the same odds against a 200 lbs thug as a cop.

This is the underlying primary reason why liberals hate guns.


"And in this corner, speaking for the uninformed conservatives who go with stereotypes about liberals and not bothering to actually find out if they're right, it's....... mnemeth1!

Oh! And he's already down by TKO! That hadda hurt!"

Seriously, if you honestly think that's the case re: liberals and guns (and where did you get that crazy idea anyway), then I have to assume you're just very sheltered and/or have a limited source of information.

I'm a liberal. I have friends who are as well.

While a limited few have strong opposition to guns, none have some strange objection to being able to defend yourself.

Me, I don't have a gun, but that's only because I'm a terrible shot. Not exactly gonna be able to take that movie hero shot where the bad guy's holding the girl in front of him, and you blow his brains out with a shot two inches above her head.

But I have no objection to someone who's got a reasonable chance of hitting the bad guy having a gun.

Suggest you change the channel every now and then. Reality can be interesting, too....



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Nightflyer28
[

A guy with a pistol in a crowd shot Reagan. I didn't particularly care for Reagan, but I'd rather someone like him were voted out than shot.


An unstable person with a hidden pistol shot President Reagan with a handgun bought at a pawn shop. That's tons of difference from a licensed, registered person with a secured sidearm legally open carrying in his State.

A Drunk Driver killed 4 teenagers here a little while ago. All people shouldn't be allowed to drive. Is that how the logic goes?



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by Nightflyer28
A guy with a pistol in a crowd shot Reagan. I didn't particularly care for Reagan, but I'd rather someone like him were voted out than shot.


An unstable person with a hidden pistol shot President Reagan with a handgun bought at a pawn shop. That's tons of difference from a licensed, registered person with a secured sidearm legally open carrying in his State.


You don't have to be some nut with a Jody Foster fixation to take a shot at a Prez.

Sometimes all it takes is a strong political conviction and a fair amount of fear.

The guy was carrying a sign saying it was time to refresh the tree of liberty, not exactly an obscure reference. The implication isn't hard to work out, either.

Given the current political climate, it's hardly beyond the realm of possibility for someone at that location, carrying that sign, carrying a gun, to have more on his mind than catchy slogans and keeping his powder dry.



A Drunk Driver killed 4 teenagers here a little while ago. All people shouldn't be allowed to drive. Is that how the logic goes?


Flawed logic, bad example. A drunk driver is acting irresponsibly at best. He's not going out with the intent to kill people. But he's still increasing the chances. So no, you don't outlaw driving - you outlaw drunk driving, which we have done.

If you see a guy with a gun, sure, he may not have ill intent, but it's not like you can read his mind. You don't know what his plans are.

And if he's in the vicinity of an elected official he strongly opposes, I'd say it's a good idea to at least question him.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by xtiml
presidential assasinations in america. same group was behind them all usaully a part of his cabinet or advisorsory committe, never has a commobn citizen assasinated a president.


I love the Internet, so easy to weed out the BS from the facts....

Assassinations
President - Assassin - Motivation/politics
Abraham Lincoln - private citizen - Confederate sympathizer
James A. Garfield - private citizen - 'God told him to'
William McKinley - private citizen - Anarchist
JFK - private citizen - Disputed

Failed Attempts
Andrew Jackson - private citizen - nutcase
Theodore Roosevelt - private citizen - nutcase
Franklin D. Roosevelt - private citizen - disputed
Harry S Truman - private citizen - political attention
Richard Nixon - private citizen - turned down for a loan
Gerald Ford - private citizen - nutcase
Jimmy Carter - private citizen - nutcase
Ronald Reagan - private citizen - nutcase
George H.W. Bush - Hired assassin - Working for Sadaam
Bill Clinton - private citizen - depression, publicity
Bill Clinton - private citizen - far-right extremist
Bill Clinton - Al Quaeda - political
George W. Bush - private citizen - nutcase
George W. Bush - Poss. Taliban - political, 9/11
George W. Bush - Russian citizen - Georgian, political

Now, you were saying something about common citizens....?







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