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When are your rights as a citizen less important than your responsibilites?

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posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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In the last few days I have seen many a poster drone on and on about their rights.

It's my Right to do this, don't encroach on my Rights, stop questioning my Rights.

Rights are entitlements, regardless of a one's situation.

Laws are meant to govern and protect society, but are differnt from Rights as I see it.

Should there be a Bill of Responsibilities? Could the Law be counted as such.

It seems that everyone and his dog knows their Rights, but few are knowledgeable of their Responsibilities.

I see on ATS that most would defend their rights to the death, even at the expense of other people's Rights. What are your views on Rights & Responsibilities, should the importance of Rights sometimes take a back seat to our Responsibilities?

Are human Rights the most important guiding principals of mankind?




posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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I don't think a bill about how responsable you should be is a good one.
I think people just want to be free (Especially from all the laws saying what you should do)
I think people should just quit feeling so entitled to everything and just start being better people and quit thinking for themselves in the me me me syndrome and the greed department.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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Freedom is a Two-Edged Sword. The other edge to that sword is Responsibility, which includes both Personal Responsibility and Civic Responsibility.

This means that you take Responsibility for yourself, your own choices, the repercussions of your actions, and you look out not only for Numero Uno but for everyone else you may meet.

If we turn a blind eye when we witness someone's unalienable Rights to Personal Freedom being infringed, or when we abrogate the Freedom of another to gain our own selfish ends, then our own Freedom thereby becomes in jeopardy. That is the cost of Freedom. If we wish to assure our own Freedom, we must assure Freedom for all. That is our Responsibility.

Do we need a Legal Code or Declaration of the details of what this entails? I think that would only complicate the issue all the more, when in reality it is pretty simple. The Xtians say "Eat, drink, and be merry" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and the Pagans say "An it harm none, do what ye will". Need it be anymore complicated than that?

1. Treat others as you would have them treat you, as we are all equals.
2. Enjoy your Freedom, and do with it as you so choose, so long as you bring no harm or hurt to another.
3. If you see someone harming another, then it is your responsibility to stop it.
4. Those who harm another, either directly or through inaction when witnessing harm, forfeit their Right to Freedom.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by fraterormus]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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...Rights are entitlements, regardless of a one's situation.


I disagree.

Rights are not subjective at any point in time. They are absolute and immutable. Therefore no 'pretense' can exist that mitigates a right.

Rights can only be suspended, not taken.

Privileges are other matters entirely.

"Entitlements" are (in this context) a negotiated settlement.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Maxmars]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:08 PM
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It's actually quit simple. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Your rights can't interfere with anyone else's rights. That's it. If you do something that interferes with my right to life, liberty or my pursuit of happiness then you have no right to it.

That may seem like an oversimplification but it is not. If you look at all the basic, and I mean basic laws, ie no killing, no stealing, they all lead right back to that circle.

Those three basic rights do not encroach on anyone's freedoms.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot

Rights are entitlements, regardless of a one's situation.



I would definitely have to beg to differ...




We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


Rights are not privileges; they are part of the program of human existence. This is not always recognized, though...

If we do not reinforce our claim to those rights, then they will be lost to those who do not recognize them, will not therefore respect them and would, given the opportunity, retire them from our lives.

...



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by secretstash
It's actually quit simple. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.



Actually, it is...




...they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness


Life, Liberty and that Pursuit of Happiness is not the be-all and end-all of those rights. It is merely a brief example...

"...among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

This door to interpretation is left ajar in favor of the people so that the rights being claimed would not someday be cranked through a bureaucracy intent on trimming them into nothing.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by redoubt

Originally posted by kiwifoot

Rights are entitlements, regardless of a one's situation.



I would definitely have to beg to differ...




We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


Rights are not privileges; they are part of the program of human existence. This is not always recognized, though...

If we do not reinforce our claim to those rights, then they will be lost to those who do not recognize them, will not therefore respect them and would, given the opportunity, retire them from our lives.

...



Hm, asside from a little difference in terminology.....

'Rights are entitlements' = 'that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights'

&

'regardless of a one's situation' = 'that all men are created equal'

But really this isn't the issue.

it may be just me but I see too much me me me (and my rights) and less others others others (and their rights and my responsibilities)

This may just be me but that's how I see it.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by kiwifoot
 




Should there be a Bill of Responsibilities? Could the Law be counted as such. It seems that everyone and his dog knows their Rights, but few are knowledgeable of their Responsibilities.


The Founding Fathers did not put a price tag on rights. As an American... as a human, you are endowed with certain inalienable rights. There is no where (that I am aware of) that says that in order to have these rights, you have to perform x-mount of community service or serve some political demagogue. You are entitled to these rights regardless.

Now, as for responsibilities? We are responsible for our own conduct... that means we obey the law and do not infringe upon others while in our pursuit of life, liberty, etc.

We as individuals, may upon our own initiative, take to offer some greater service but the same is not incumbent upon us.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


Too many people in today's society no longer feel responsible for their actions. They have been told too many times that it is not their fault and that they shouldn't have to do anything, someone "owes" them.

We have to break out of that mentality of holding out our hand and saying, 'gimme, gimme' cause I was abused and you owe me to actually taking responsibility for providing for our own liberty and happiness.

I don't owe you. You owe it to yourself.

(I am not pointing a finger at you directly, just saying in general.)



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:40 PM
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i think our rights are most important above all else

including any and every law known to mankind

a great man once said something along the lines of

those who are willing to give up liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
-Benjamin Franklin

this is one of my all time favorite statements as i fully believe its true

and i see its truth in almost every day since 911

i constantly see us giving up our rights for this temporary safety, and its terrifying

much more so then any terrorist act could ever be

we made these rights available to us in the U.S. to make us better then other places, to allow a place of safe haven for those oppressed and denied rights around the world

but now in order to protect us from people around the world

we are giving up the very rights that separate us from the evil we have fought since the revolution

if we are able to give up everything that makes us us, just for safety

what exactly is it that we are keeping safe?


this is why i feel nothing, no law, nor responsibility is a more important obligation then we have to our rights

for our rights not only effect us, but the world in which so many have died for



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by secretstash
reply to post by redoubt
 


Too many people in today's society no longer feel responsible for their actions. They have been told too many times that it is not their fault and that they shouldn't have to do anything, someone "owes" them.

We have to break out of that mentality of holding out our hand and saying, 'gimme, gimme' cause I was abused and you owe me to actually taking responsibility for providing for our own liberty and happiness.

I don't owe you. You owe it to yourself.

(I am not pointing a finger at you directly, just saying in general.)


I most definitely agree that people do not take enough responsibility for themselves... as in their behaviors/conduct or in an effort to succeed in life.

But be this as it may, I just feel that we should not confuse 'rights' as guaranteed by the Constitution with 'entitlements' granted by legal contract or statute.

For instance:

1- I have paid into Social Security my entire working life and I do feel that I am entitled by contract to some portion of those funds upon retirement or if I should become physically disabled from work.

2 - I am guaranteed by the Constitution the right to own and keep a firearm and to be able to speak freely without fear of government reprisal. These rights are not a contract entitlement or privilege.

In the misty beyond, there are issue like compulsory service in the armed forces in the case of a draft and the paying of income taxes. Each has its own pros and cons and are well worth debate in their own right (no pun intended). It could be reasoned that it is our 'responsibility' to answer our nation's call in a time of war or to pay taxes to support government, infrastructure, etc. But it is always healthy to air grievances, especially in a nation where it is through the consent of the governed that such things either stand or fall.

...



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot

it may be just me but I see too much me me me (and my rights) and less others others others (and their rights and my responsibilities)

This may just be me but that's how I see it.


The way I see it is that our rights ARE all about us individually. However, our recognition and respect of other peoples' rights are our responsibility. We are responsible for protecting others' rights in order to retain our own. This kind of responsibility is where our society has fallen short lately and is the reason why many feel that their rights have been deteriorating. That is because they have not responsibly protected others' rights.

When we allow another person's rights to be diminished through our own irresponsibility - may it be through nonrecognition, keeping to oneself, or outright cowardice - we are guaranteeing that our own rights are diminished.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot

should the importance of Rights sometimes take a back seat to our Responsibilities?

Are human Rights the most important guiding principals of mankind?



Rights and responsibilities are two different things entirely and neither one ever affects the other.

I have the right to own a gun. However I might not exercise that right because of responsibilities to keep my children safe. The choice that I make does not affect my right. I can think of no situation that responsibility could preclude rights or vice versa. Now, in the exercise of my rights, responsibility certainly does preclude it sometimes.

[edit on 11/8/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


The social security program is an entitlement because they made it one. I don't think the program should exist to begin with. I think society fared a lot better when families had to actually take care of each other instead of dropping mom and pop off at the local nursing home and leaving someone else to do their job.

As far as military being compulsory, I don't think that should ever happen. In a perfect society we would not be at war, but since that is not going to happen, you will never need to compel someone to defend their home and that is the only thing military is good for. If enough people would just say no, then half our wars would never have happened.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by secretstash
reply to post by redoubt
 


The social security program is an entitlement because they made it one. I don't think the program should exist to begin with. I think society fared a lot better when families had to actually take care of each other instead of dropping mom and pop off at the local nursing home and leaving someone else to do their job.


Agreed. I have an 86 year old mother that I have fought very hard for so that she could live independently for as long as possible. She still does.

On the flip side, we brought my spouse's mother here for here end of life days. She had cancer of the brain and we could not even imagine putting her in some rancid nursing home. To this end, we found a lot of support and guidance through a local Hospice service.

As for Social Security, I didn't have anything to do with its beginnings. It was there and feeding from my very first paycheck back when Nixon was president. The contract is one that was also before me so... though not a right, it is a bond... a trust that needs to be upheld and fulfilled.

What tomorrow holds is for those who will live there.



Originally posted by secretstash
reply to post by redoubt
 

As far as military being compulsory, I don't think that should ever happen. In a perfect society we would not be at war, but since that is not going to happen, you will never need to compel someone to defend their home and that is the only thing military is good for. If enough people would just say no, then half our wars would never have happened.


I spent a number of years in the US Army. I began my stint in the early 1970s and finished them in the early '80s. Military service is both good and bad. It taught me to be strong of character, to finish things I began and that my actions were my own to account for. beyond that, there is no joy in a lot of it because it is NOT a democracy and barely floats as a tyranny.

War is part of the human condition and until the day when we rise above ourselves, it will be there for us from generation to generation. As it is right now, anything less than a strong military almost invites some other piece of humanity to take advantage of our worst nature.

It is, in my humble opinion, a necessary evil... for right now.

Thanks for the reply


...



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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wow. what an orwellian OP.
scary that someone can think that way.
you have no responsibilities as a citizen other than jury duty. even income tax is extorted from us.
rights are not an 'entitlement'. that implies that everyone has no rights until some higher power decides you have them. we are born free, and then the jackbooted thugs put the boots to us for the rest of our lives. the only way to be 'free' is to buy your way out.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by billybob

you have no responsibilities as a citizen other than jury duty.


Wow, just let me know when you get in charge mate, would be time to move!



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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I would say that exercising your rights would at least be a partial fulfillment of your responsibilities as a citizen. Our system requires participation from everyone or it will start to fail like it is now.

Beyond that, I believe that it is the responsibility of citizens to contribute in one form or another to the enrichment of their communities. Of course we should be free to choose how we do that.

Edit for redundancy edit...

[edit on 12-8-2009 by milesp]



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 12:34 AM
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Your rights are given to you by the ones in charge.

It is just that it is easier to stay in charge if you give "more rights"...but to many, and the fist may slip.

We SHOULD have unalienable rights, but there will also be a time in certain ones life's where they become breached. This may never happen to you, but it happens to many.

Rights and responsibilities are ever changing. Just like a person seeking more money or power. Someone may do something not in the books (breaking the law a little) at the expense of someone else...but depending on how much determines if you get caught.

My point?

Rights will forever change for the good and the worse...there will never truly be an absolute of either. Society has a large impact too.



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