'Evil and Orwellian' – America's right turns its fire on NHS, page 2

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reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 07:23 PM by azzllin

reply to post by sos37

Now you see, I always thought your Country America was founded on Freedom, the right to be Free, to not be over powered by those who want to enslave the Population, your Revolution quite rightly forced our corrupt Royalist Banker run people slamming slave traders from your soil.

Now there are calls for a new Revolution, but surely when after 8 years of false war, and every single American and European hard working person as well as many other countries around the World, fighting a Revolution at a time when the people who caused this mess call for it, on their behalf, is now the time to give them back what they took from us all? I am speaking as a man who has been so scared in recent years as to make plans to get my Family away at a moments notice.

I am speaking as a man who has witnessed a lot in 42 very short years, for the sake of those who can not afford to let the big insurance companies decide who lives and dies, when an office worker can over rule your own Doctor who was the one who examined you and made the diagnosis.

It has nothing to do with Socialism, or Communism, it has to do with what is right and moral, look around you and look at the American people, every day sick people are being dropped from their insurance contracts, simply because they are too sick, and will cost a lot more money to them, why didn't that matter when the contract was signed?

If I make a bet at a casino I cant ask for my money back just because I lost, so why should the big companies?

From where I sit, what is on offer is a fair system which thinks of everyone, not just those who can afford it.

The point of my above post was, I had no idea I was going to get so sick, I was fit, worked as a Geologist, walked many many miles every week, I became ill at 2am on May 31st 1994 while I slept, when I woke I thought I had heart burn until I got the feeling of doom.

If it hadn't of been for the advice my Doctor gave me over the phone, well I wouldn't be here, I didn't have to worry about insurance, or paying a bill, I could concentrate on getting better, what I see being offered to all Americans is the right to go and be treated without worrying about re mortgaging the house or selling the car, give it any label you like, to me it sounds like a fair deal for all, isn't that what America was supposed to have been built on?

Freedom?

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 07:29 PM by groingrinder

reply to post by sos37

You cannot have free market health care when Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance companies keep the costs artificially high. Only when people pay with their own cash do you actually have free market health care.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 07:45 PM by Majic

Ignorance Is Strength(?)

What is more Orwellian: challenging government power, or accepting it without question?

An honest answer to that question will be far more truthful than anything a government official or sympathizer may say or do.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 07:59 PM by angrysniper

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by angrysniper

Right now, for your country, yes limited government is a bad thing. It is limited Government that failed to oversee the banks which led to the Banking and thus subsequent financial crisis.

In other ways though the Republican administration of Bush was hardly limited, launching invasion after invasion. But other that that, at home, the administration was a shell of a force and could not even deal with Hurricaine Katrinas consequences.

You pay taxes to get a service and protection from the Government, you aint getting either.

Really? I was under the impression that FORCING banks to give out loans to people who did not qualify caused the subsequent financial crisis. That doesn't strike me as LIMITED GOVERNMENT. It strikes me as government intervention in the free market.

This is not even touching upon the devaluation of US currency by printing money that has no tangible asset to back it up.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by angrysniper]

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:05 PM by Gorman91

reply to post by Peruvianmonk

Said it before so I'll say it again.

England is smaller than us, less diverse, less entangled is global affairs, more energy independent, healthier in general, and a bunch of other stuff on a long list.

it works for them.

If you think a health care system designed for a small independent nation can work on a large imperialistic nation, that's your fantasy to take care of. The reality is that the current bill is bureaucracy, not socialism. And is nothing short of a fascistic growth of government.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:06 PM by sos37

reply to post by groingrinder

I'm not a champion for the status quo when it comes to the current health care system. I know it needs change and I think just about every American knows that, too.

What I don't agree with is that Barack Obama's health care reform bill is what the health care industry or the uninsured people of this country need. You see, there's this office called the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) which has examined the cost of Obama's health care plan. They've determined that no matter how he tries to spin it, there's absolutely no way it can be overhauled according to his plan within the budget allotted. It's even stated here on their page (www.cbo.gov...)

Both federal spending and private spending on health care are likely to continue to increase in the immediate future and to constitute a greater share of GDP.

Just how much is that "greater share"? The CBO estimate is that 3 million people will switch to the government health care plan which will cost $1 trillion over 10 years. However, the Lewin Group, a health care policy and research group, estimates that 119 million Americans will switch.

If these figures are accurate, the program's cost could easily be $4.5 trillion over 10 years, not the $1.04 trillion CBO is claiming. That new financial burden would be a disaster for the deficit.

Source: www.washingtontimes.com...

And how will the government compensate for that immediate cost? either:
1. Raising the middle class tax bracket to somewhere around 50% or
2. Implementing a "fair tax" in which all classes pay the same.

Both would cause the country huge financial hardships. So what good is health insurance from the government if you can't find work to feed your family???

Also:

Under a universal health care plan I can see a couple of things happening in this country:

1. Doctors not liking the new regulations imposed by the government may leave their practices and work in cash-only clinics or may stop practicing doctor/patient medicine and get into research-related medicine or something along those lines; potential new medical students, including nurses, now seeing that the medical industry is even further hogtied in regulations by the government will decide to seek education in another field

2. Doctors may passively resist new government insured patients because they don't want to be told how much they will be paid for medical services. By passively resisting doctors may infinitely re-scheduling government insured patients in favor of privately insured patients or cancel appointments outright.

Which means the only way the government is going to be able to fight back is to squeeze out private insurance - which means if you have health insurance now through your employer, you soon won't. You will be forced to enroll in the government plan.

This health care bill means disaster for this country if it is passed.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:31 PM by CRB86

The NHS, whilst not perfect, is a brilliant institution that i cannot praise enough. It is undoubtedly the British nation's finest achievement, and one that many are proud of.

Even Thatcher dared not dismantle the NHS.

Ironically, the NHS is Orwellian in the true sense of the word, as Orwell was a staunch advocate of democratic socialism and keen exponent of socialised health care irrespective of personal wealth.

reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 01:55 AM by Ex_MislTech

reply to post by Peruvianmonk

Words are often lies, even by governments, or distortions.

Judge the world with your eyes by ppls actions, not by their words.

Observe and verify, look for the deception and deceit.

You will find a lot of ppl fly to the US for more advanced or
complicated surgeries.

Not all of the Hospitals have good service, but the ones that are
not accepted by HMO's typically have better care.

Because profit and meeting the HMO guidelines are not the priority.

reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 07:42 AM by Asktheanimals

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I think national health insurance is a great idea. Care for
all, who could argue with that?

I could argue with that because it's illegal.
Please show me where in the Constitution does it say nationalized healthcare is a right? Is it before or after the right to free speech and religion or the right to bear arms?