'Evil and Orwellian' – America's right turns its fire on NHS

As the attack on Obama's healthcare reform continues to escalate, the Right in America are using the NHS in the U.K to stir up fear about what Obama's plan entails. Blatent lies and uncorroborated statements are being used to label the NHS 'Orwellian'

At the end of the day the U.K is ranked 18th in the world on healthcare by the WHO and the U.S is ranked 37th, so if that is something to fear for Americans-- then America is seriously screwed up. Is anyone falling for these lies and half-truths?

www.guardian.co.uk...

Some Americans who take a look at our system of care come to a much more appreciative understanding of the system and its advantages of taxation based healthcare with help from the private sector. nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com...

Which way will you turn America?

The key question here - The UK is rated better than the U.S. in health care BY WHOM??? By UK politicians? By lobbyists paid behind the scenes by Democrats? Ah yes, the WHO. An organization.

The only opinion that matters to me is the opinion of patients - not doctors, not insurance companies, not governments, not politicians, not special interest groups like the AARP - but patients!

Here's a video everyone ought to see. It highlights one patient's story - a nightmare that could happen to any one of us.



Source: (If the video doesn't show up in the embedded window it can also be viewed here) www.freemarketcure.com...


[edit on 11-8-2009 by sos37]

[edit on 11-8-2009 by sos37]

reply to post by sos37


No by the WHO my friend, which is not staffed by British politicians. There are always going to be blunders within all systems, but the key thing is that we have a higher life expectancy in this country and do not have to worry about how much it is going to cost when we enter through the hospital doors(in most cases).

Why is the Right targeting solely the U.K? You would think Canada would be a much easier target as it is next door. Either way, it seems pretty clear to me that no real reform is going to get through and that the U.S will continue to have 40 mil odd without insurance and the corporations of the Insurance and Pharmucutical kind will continue to to rule the roost whilst financing those Senators and Representitives who support them.

The corruption within 'your' political system is so transparent it is almost unbelieveable.

reply to post by sos37


That video has absolutely nothing to do with the NHS, it's about a man from Canada who went to the US for brain surgery.

Are you even aware of which country the OP is talking about?


And you could find a million+ stories just like that for people who have been denied coverage or were otherwise let down by the good ol' insurance companies here in the US.

reply to post by drwizardphd


Well exactly, the hatred and fear towards an NHS kind of system seems to be so soaked in irrationality and a manipulation of the facts by the media and Right. I do not understand why 'Socialism' is such an evil word within the U.S.

All unfettered 'Capitalism' has bought the U.S people, from my point of view, is such an inequality in wealth and accses to healthcare that makes a mockery of the slogans such as 'Land of the Free' and the 'American Dream'.

reply to post by sos37

You want to hear it from NHS patients? ok I'm here, serious heart condition since 1994, good health until then and after treatment , decided new life was in order so went to live in AZ lasted maybe 2 years before the treatment I was receiving in Flagstaff and then Phoenix to fix the mistakes made by a Doctor performed Angiography left a small device in my right leg, ended up haveing surgery in Phoenix which had been unnecessary until then, total price? everything I had, cleared me out.

All people could say was file against the Doctor, claim damages, ruin a career, sure it was a big mistake, everyone makes them, I spoke to the Doctor about it in person away from the Lawyers, he didn't deserve to lose his career, over stressed by a system where a lot of Doctors are terrified of being ruined.

So there an NHS patient has said their part, will that change your mind? no it wont, why? because it's not about health care, it's about Obama, plain and simple, these protesters don't care about American patients, they care about getting Obama out of office in 2012, because if his healthcare bill goes right and works, he will be re-elected, and some of you cant stand that thought.

Truth is truth no matter how bad it tastes.

reply to post by drwizardphd


Yes, I understand what country the OP is talking about - the UK, which has a health care system similar to what Canada has which is why I believe the video to be relevant.

As to the poster above me to doesn't understand why "socialism" is such a foul word in the United States, perhaps you don't understand what our country was founded on at all or the men who founded our country. Our nation is based on capitalism, which is incompatible with Socialism or Marxism.

In a nutshell, Socialism is taking the resources of everyone and distributing to everyone, including those who do not contribute to the overall good of the society. The flaw in this is you have to have someone, namely a government, overseeing this distribution of resources, making choices as to who gets what, how much, how often, etc. That's a LOT of power to hold over people's lives. Do you trust that the government completely with the lives of your family? This is exactly what our founding fathers started a new nation to get away from - they wanted a nation with LESS government power, not more. They wanted a nation based on decisions made BY people, FOR people, which means free markets. Socialism is the polar opposite of all of those things. To embrace socialism in this country is to spit in the face of our founding fathers and all they worked to achieve.


[edit on 11-8-2009 by sos37]

reply to post by azzllin


Powerful stuff, i hope you are better now. I hadn't really considered that it was all about Obama more that it was to stop any kind of power being placed in the American peoples hands.

But you are correct, i think, on this. A Republican victory in 2012 would be disastorous...not just for America but the whole world.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
Blatent lies and uncorroborated statements are being used to label the NHS 'Orwellian'

I don't even know where to begin with this misleading and bias post.

First of all, the statements regarding the NHS are NOT blatent lies.
Here is a article by Stanford University. It clearly points out the major problems with the NHS and why it sucks compared to the U.S. system. And don't even try to tell me the Stanford University Study is spewing lies because that would be crazy.

Stanford University Study

At the end of the day the U.K is ranked 18th in the world on healthcare by the WHO and the U.S is ranked 37th, so if that is something to fear for Americans-- then America is seriously screwed up.

For starters, the WHO ranking system is bogus for many reasons and the entire organization is a leftist group. So don't put them on a pedastal because they are about equal in standing as the UN.

The main reasons the WHO ranks the U.S. 37th is because they add deaths from non natural causes into its calculations. Because of the size of the U.S., we rank number one in car accident fatalities worldwide which of course skews the results. This little fact has nothing to do with healthcare. Boy, the leftists like to skew results.

If you took rankings based on how well the health care was actually performed USA ranks at the very top in several categories.

Here is an article about this subject:
WHO lies about U.S. Healthcare

Even more in depth here:
CATO Institute

Is anyone falling for these lies and half-truths?

Considering the info I have given you so far, YOU are the only one falling for the liberal propaganda.

Oh, and let's not forget that the NHS is the worlds 3rd largest employer.
Just image the number of employees it would take to run the American system. Is this what we really want? I don't think so.
NHS is world's biggest employer after Indian rail and Chinese Army

Please go spread your propaganda elsewhere because our system is the best in the world already. Our system is what advances most of the medical technologies which the socialist systems suck up. If the U.S. has a socialist system then medical breakthroughs will suffer greatly.

I am not saying our system is perfect, but there is no need to reinvent the wheel when all we have to do is make some minor tweaks to the current system.

reply to post by azzllin


Okay, thanks for sharing, however there seems to be something missing from that story. Most, if not all, doctors in this country are covered by malpractice insurance in case of mistakes being made and in case of lawsuits being filed. This is because the doctors, surgeons, etc. are people, not divine beings who never make mistakes. So why would it ruin this doctor's career if it was their first mistake? Is this not what medical malpractice insurance is for? And if this was a trend of the doctor to make mistakes like this, then don't you think that maybe that doctor should have been reviewed by a medical board to determine whether or not they were even fit to continue practicing medicine?

Like I said, I'm not calling you a liar, but something doesn't add up.

reply to post by sos37


Ha ha ha. You think decisons are made by People for the PEOPLE?! Have you seen the state of your country? This was caused by unfettered free market Capitalism, which your land owning upper class Founding Fathers were looking to create, and which was espoused in this century by the likes of Milton Friedman.

Politicains in my country hardly represent their constituents, but yours are something else! Many will be funded by the insurance companies in re-election bids so will vote against any kind of health care reform even if it helps the American PEOPLE.

reply to post by WhatTheory


It may be good for you to have one of the worlds largest employers at the moment, as Americans don't have any accses to jobs becasue they have been shipped abroad.

Your health system is #, unequal, unfair and selfish. Sure its great for those who can afford it(like you i assume) , but what about those who can't? Why don't any of you who are so against health care reform not give a # about these people?

Its that kind of attitude which you flaunt so openly which gives Americans a bad name abroad, the lack of care for their own(Katrina,unequal Health Care, stolen election), which translates into a lack of care for the rest of us(Illegal invasions,economic apartheid,support of oppresive regimes).

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


The ideals by which this country are based are by the people, for the people. So it's written.

Along the way, our government has become so corrupt that the vision of the founding fathers is now lost. The Constitution, which was supposed to be a document that could last as long as the nation lasted, is now being softened by liberals who whine that it's a "living document" that evolves, or needs to evolve with the times. It does evolve in the form of allowing amendments, but amendments are not made easily, nor should they be.

To answer your question, no, I see less power of the people resulting nowadays thanks to Barack Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, not to mention others. GW Bush also had a hand in eroding those rights as he was not a true conservative by any means. The abundance of power needs to return to the individual states with centralized power minimized to the federal government. This can only be achieved through TRUE conservative ideals - and sadly, we've not seen a candidate in a long time which embraces such.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by azzllin

 

Powerful stuff, i hope you are better now. I hadn't really considered that it was all about Obama more that it was to stop any kind of power being placed in the American peoples hands.

But you are correct, i think, on this. A Republican victory in 2012 would be disastorous...not just for America but the whole world.

What does a victory of a particular party have to do with WHO is elected? Republicans generally (or at least they used to) be for limited government. Are you suggesting that limited government is a BAD thing?

reply to post by angrysniper


Right now, for your country, yes limited government is a bad thing. It is limited Government that failed to oversee the banks which led to the Banking and thus subsequent financial crisis.

In other ways though the Republican administration of Bush was hardly limited, launching invasion after invasion. But other that that, at home, the administration was a shell of a force and could not even deal with Hurricaine Katrinas consequences.

You pay taxes to get a service and protection from the Government, you aint getting either.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
It may be good for you to have one of the worlds largest employers at the moment, as Americans don't have any accses to jobs becasue they have been shipped abroad.

Not government jobs.
Those are not real jobs. That is welfare because I have to pay for them via taxes. Come on, get with it.

Your health system is #, unequal, unfair and selfish. Sure its great for those who can afford it(like you i assume) , but what about those who can't?
I just gave you proof that our current system is better. Why don't you read through the links before spewing crap. I know you did not read them so don't even try to say you did. You did not even comment on the evidence in the links.

Why don't any of you who are so against health care reform not give a # about these people?

Give me a break. This proves that you did NOT read my entire post because I did say we should have some reform, just not government take over type of reform. Geesh!

You are just spewing garbage without even reading people's posts.

Oh, and you are spewing propaganda because we have medicaid and medicare for the poor and elderly. Even those who are not covered under them can get medical treatment so you have no idea what you are talking about.

Another point: The 35 million people with no healthcare figure spread by propagandists is false and misleading because 15 million of that number is illegals which should not have it anyway. Then you have all the young people who don't want it because well, they are young and feel invincible.

So get a clue please.

Again, thanks for NOT reading the links provided and for NOT commenting on that evidence.

[edit on 8/11/2009 by WhatTheory]

reply to post by WhatTheory


What your top of a few lists, but who has accses to those kind of operations and therapies? It isn't just quality that rates a good system, but the amount of people who can get at it.

So because you pay tax for a job to be created it doesn't equate as a real or serious job? So what is the point of anyone going to College in the U.S if all they are going to end up doing is waiting tables?

Yes they are covered, to a certain extent, but any prolonged stay in a Hospital or serious operation racks up a bill of thousands of Dollars which is not covered. It is you who does not know what they talk of.

Your all illegal immigrants anyway, your ancestors left Europe, genocided the Native Americans who welcomed you(with biological warfare, Smallpox on blankets) and then throw your arms up in horror when Lations,forced by your countires economic destruction of these countries, travel North to have some of what you have, Laughable.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
It isn't just quality that rates a good system, but the amount of people who can get at it.

Quality is very important because you do want to get better when you do have a serious illness. Plus, only about 3 or 4% of people who want healthcare cannot afford it. This is easily rectified by tweaking our current system instead of reinventing the square wheel.

So what is the point of anyone going to College in the U.S if all they are going to end up doing is waiting tables?

Huh? What?
Our current unemployment has nothing to do with healthcare. Stay focused on your topic please and not skew into a different point.

Besides, the UK unemployment rate is about 7.2% currently. Not much different from ours. And ours was in the 4 range not to many months ago and will get their again once the socialist is out of office.

Your all illegal immigrants anyway, your ancestors left Europe

Again, this has nothing to do with healthcare. Focus.
Besides, this is the more ridiculous statement ever.
I was born here so I am not illegal. Using your flawed logic, you are an immigrant also because I'm pretty sure human life did not originate in the UK. Your point is moot.

[edit on 8/11/2009 by WhatTheory]

I think national health insurance is a great idea. Care for
all, who could argue with that?

Well, here's the crux of the
proverbial biscuit: The US government, particularly since
Bush jr. was installed as president, has a track record that
isn't particularly flattering.

See how we handled hurricane Katrina? How we "saved"
Iraq from al qaeda? Stopped global financial collapse by
giving trillions to gamblers, er investment bankers? To put
it another way, if governments were racehorses the US gov't
would have gone to the glue factory by now.

Americans have learned the hard way that anything our
government purports to be fixing will inevitably come out
worse for the intervention.
I cannot help but think that any version that is government
approved will somehow have built-in windfalls for the health
insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

Our Congress is so corrupt that nobody trusts them
anymore. Should we? Not unless you believe
that Hitler was good because he ended unemployment in Germany.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I think national health insurance is a great idea. Care for
all, who could argue with that?

I could argue with that because it's illegal.
Please show me where in the Constitution does it say nationalized healthcare is a right? Is it before or after the right to free speech and religion or the right to bear arms?