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Is The Devil God and God The Devil?

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posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 02:58 AM
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reply to post by lost_misfit
 


I hear you and know exactly what you mean. It's true the bible says it's better not to marry. When you marry you will be of this world as your thoughts will be with your wife or husband instead of on God. Most Christians have ignored this and have twisted it around making it almost a requirement to get married and procreate. Where it is actually spoken of as a kind of failure in the bible, a failure to control your flesh, in 1Cor 7, it is instead celebrated by Christians. But it sounds like you might be restricting yourself a little too much. It does say that it is allowed to you. It is better to marry than to burn, it says. So it is saying basically God knows some people cannot control their passions and so it is not a sin to get married and have children, and it is allowed. No restriction is put upon you to not get married. It says you will have trouble in the flesh but you aren't sinning if you do. Don't get too hung up on it.




posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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First off I am just a normal person 9-5 job, no religion and hate reading so excuse the grammar!
First off I believe in a higher power that created everything and had god and devil doing the required work. God gives love and the devil takes control of your fear. I reckon it’s like the matrix if all were good we would just get bored. You also noticed how siblings can be the opposite; the balance of the universe is everywhere just open your eyes (if you dare too! +-, love fear, give take, high low, hot cold, day night…..). And if it’s perfectly balanced then someone must of creating it! That’s why I think karma fits into the equation because if you do a good act(+) then it will come back to you and vice versa (-) so I do not know anything about past lives (relation to karma) but I definitely think doing kind unexpected favours will bring you luck down the line.
Lets say you go and tell everyone that YES there is definitely a god, the creator will send the devil down to sort you out (poisoning his children because some people aren't ready for it yet) and if your intentions were for the greater good will send god ("good" angle) down to help you out (after off course the devil shut you up). I believe the devil and god are one working together. Why were here I think its some sort of test - to enjoy life and help others enjoy life.
Marriage is mostly a selfish thing because if someone commits adultly its over so it’s all based on rules and conditions. So if you marry (be a giver as well as a taker) try to help the partner not to solely satisfy your own selfish needs. True relationships are for example when you have kids, unconditional love.
Judgemental is also a horrible thing because we constantly judge, the church thinks it can tell everyone right and wrong. I don’t need anything or anyone to tell me how to live my life. E.g. a man goes into a bank and steals the money person A says “he is awful and should rot in hell” but who knows maybe that man decided to do it for a neighbours sick child who needs money for an operation.
Homosexuality is the way the person was created; I am not gay but if that’s what 2 adults want -so be it - joy to themselves and each other. Where as child molesting (as someone with a urge black hole to fill) is a massive sin and although I pity them for having that craving they need to be locked up for life otherwise the vicious circle keeps spinning – because they will more than likely re commit the crime if they cannot control their emotions.
Also a sin bigger that most but goes really unpunished is corrupt intellectuals. At least with a junkie they don’t see any better but with someone who has been given a gift of brains and uses them to walk over everyone else while others stave because of their greediness – they should be either executed or imprisoned for life (by life I mean 30 years in jail minimum).
Now I ask the biggest question - If the creator wants you to do something "to get to heaven" but it might not help humans what would you do?
My answer is to tell the creator to "F off" I would choose humans real life over my own selfish wishes. I believe that’s the biggest step in evolving is to correctly advance in an unselfish manner while true to yourself. That’s what I think Buddhist was saying in acknowledging the gods exits but you owe them nothing.
I think the whole (genius) idea between the devil and god was created years ago as people would not of being able to comprehend the devil and god as one but even tho your tested its still you choice that’s the beauty of life FREEWILL.

And then some people have such a heavy load to carry in life that I feel they should never have their ears opened!

And yes the creator already knows the future so its kind of mind boggling that time is irrelevant but I think we can choose our own future it’s definitely not predestined. Thoughts are planted and read so if you going to do something evil god places a thought in you mind "are you sure you want to do this?"



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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god is one, because of this he is perfect,
so the devil is the lie that god is not perfect.
when you hate the devil, you are the devil still,
because you do not love yourself as one.
thats why forgiveness makes you more one with god,
because by understanding (repenting > forgiveness)
you forgive and see the good, function, of what looked bad



the devil is ignorance, is divided, so is not one thing,
but everyone who does not react from oneness

it is a hallucination in god,
it is god choosing not to be god as one.
so it is us who choose to ignore and live false peace
of not caring.

god = love = because he is one.



[edit on 17-8-2009 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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No God is God and the devil is actually humanity. The fall is the fact that we have turned our backs on God it's a metaphor for civilization today.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by ldyserenity]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 11:09 AM
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the fall is something that god obliged himself, us, to do
we didnt turn our back on god,
it just looks like that.

we are searching, a big part of humanity is not the devil

the fall was a symbol to teach us something
eve had to eat, had to get lost,
because like that she would discover
that she came forth from herself,
that adam is herself.

she needed ropes to discover what was nudity
god needed the devil to discover the devil was
his clothing of the dreams he wants to be
logic to enslave himself in his dreams as dreams.



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by pasttheclouds
 


sorry bro but look at the quotes I provided

biblical god = hate and evil
he's so far from Love he can barely see it



posted on Aug, 19 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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I was very pleased to see the explanation of the Demurge (probably spelled it wrong) done so well. I starred the person that posted it.

I have always been of the opinion that the God of the OT was a dictator in the purest sense of the word. I was just a kid and we were learning about various types of government when that occurred to me. I was a strange kid.


There are so many inconsistencies within the pages of the Bible, which is nothing more than a compilation of letters and history. We must remember the Catholic Church under the arm of Constantine decided what texts were to be included. We do not have a full picture of the beliefs of the people of that time without looking into the Gnostic texts.

Who is the evil one? A being that instructs his people to go into a city of people that believe in another god and kill them all, old and young, male and female including the animals! Yeah, check out the book of Joshua! Or a god that condemns the practice of making children pass through fire, but has a hot and painful hell waiting those that piss him off.

If you believe the Garden of Eden story then you are very confused. God, the so called benevolent one tells Adam and Eve to multiply and fill the earth, but they could not do that until they sinned.
In order to obey one commandment they have to break the big one, can anyone really say that makes any sense?? NO.

The creator is real and has created many beings on all levels. Some with better intentions than others, but to give some guy named the devil the blame for everything is like the great celestial scapegoat. This is hell, the devil is the underdeveloped man/woman that does things that only serve themselves. It really isn't hard to see if you take the blinders off that were given to you in Sunday School.

edit to add:
The people that wrote much of the bible, imo, used god to justify their own hatred and need for dominance. Yeah, God said it is okay to beat your wife or slave. And don't forget that this same god said it was okay to "take" the women of the nations they conquered as wives and slaves. Sounds like a pretty misogynistic bastard to me.

[edit on 8/19/2009 by redhead57]



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by redhead57
 


Thanks for your post
I agree with many thigns you said

I always thought that the NT is just the OT but with better public relations.

Abrahamic religions scare me!



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 04:54 AM
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"it scares you" makes you avoiding a bigger truth behind it.

Actually this being afraid grows 2 camps of people,
the ones who take the OT literally
and the ones who will avoid in their logic the truth of it.

there is a solution for that fear.
and its called truth


the ot is made in a time that abstract thinking evolved by
LITERAL thinking.
The NT is the result of it.

The god of the ot allowed misinterpretation of his own law,
which is love, love god , he is one, is the real torah
he put choice in it, the symbolic law based on 2 witnesses,
to accuse, and the accuser is the devil.

To forgive you have to accuse first, or how do you want to forgive.
This pattern is put in our history, first as literal.

So misinterpretation of the law was gods plan for humanity.
Being afraid of it will not take it away.

EVOLUTION is CLOCKWISE, as a motor
understand that, and you can understand the value of
what happened in the OT.

Yes, God is always fully responsible,
because what is one is free of sin against one.
What is divided is not free of 'sin' and
has to grow towards oneness.

sin is putting blame on another,
without seeing the same blame in yourself.
it means avoiding responsibility.

How more you forgive,
how closer god will be in you.

To forgive god, you have to grow towards forgiving history.
and then he can set you free.

Look to history as a child
that grew up by doing wrong,
and you know why jesus talked about children,
they make the u-turns of caring > accusing,
loosing, reflecting, forgiving.
Ignorance doesnt do anything wrong
but never cared (worked).



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


It would seem as though the devil is the god of man.....he represents what man looks up to....he represents what man naturally cherishes....it's easy to see why....

The will of God goes against what we naturally seek out - our own will. God's will and our will are not NATURALLY aligned. However, our will and the satans will...well...they're pretty much in cahoots from day one now aren't they....

You see what I'm getting at? It's not that God is the devil and vice versa...it's that we're playing on the side of the bad guy and so he's our role model...he's our leader....he's our "god"...atleast while we maintain our fleshly habits....

A2D



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 06:03 AM
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In the vedic scriptures, God has unlimited, inconceivable energies, one of which is maya. Maya is the energy of illusion,those under the influence of maya are mislead, they forget God and become trapped in a birth/death cycle. Liberation from this only comes when the individual recognizes his original position with God and lives accordingly. Now maya, the illusory energy of God, is like the devil in the bible.It misleads those entrapped and is very powerful and difficult to conquer, but is one of God's energies
nonetheless.



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Is making the devil the devil and god God one of the things they are trying to fool you WITH?


no, they (god and the devil) are trying to make you think.
and i think they are succeeding.

if the goal is to spark true original thought...then i'd say they are succeeding.

and if that IS the goal, then where does "good" and "bad" fit in?

NO WHERE
in thought, there is just thought
what is, just is




posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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in the effort.

In god all is equal, it means if god needs this world,
then he hurts himself, and he takes a cross,
maybe spread over different times, to hide this fact,
but as described in the bible.

One penny for every worker regardless the hour started,
effort is not measured in time but in pressure.

So the devil is the lie in the absolute story,
but most people live part of the way, because
the whole way is made by civilisation as a whole.
Individually you can choose effort or no effort,
growth or ignorance.
Forgiveness (understanding) or self-wasting,
because what is one, can not be seperated,
and takes cross as releasing choice.
Where god is one, he will not choose against himself,
so is without choice, in this world he hides himself,
so he can choose and be the lie, so he can be all truth,
including lies, instead of excluding them, as to avoid
not being all.



[edit on 1-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 


I see what you are saying but I disagree.
You are talking about temptation are you not?

Freedom of thought is not a temptation to me, it's a god given right since my conception.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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All things in creation are God.

So yes.

According to the abrahamic religions, Satan is a servant of God. Only in relatively modern incarnations of Christanity is Lucifer seen as being a true rebel. However even then as Chistian's consider God to be infallible the rebellion must have been part of The Plan(TM).



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by gYvMessanger
 


Well that's not the question we are trying to address here.
Your post is something completely different.

What you are simply saying is the Devil is either an extension of god or it's servant.

But what the question here is... is the entity that plays the character of god really the devil and is the entity that plays the character of the devil really god.

I think it is!
And I think the only entity that would want to fool you is either the Devil or the concept of a dictatorship.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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Dictatorship ?!? Thats a very modern concept. If we look at the animal kingdom we will see that there is normally a singular leader within a community. The idea of democratic rule is one which has consistently failed in its incarnations through modern society. That isnt to say that it cant work, only that it doesnt currently.

You blame god and call it dictator or big brother because their are rules that govern your life ? If you put your hand in fire is it Gods fault you got burnt ? Or is it your fault for placing your hand in the fire knowing the rules under which it operates ?

The modern concept of the Devil is all over the place. But it seems your using a christian definition whereby the Devil is a figure which "grants free will" even though he doesnt actually. You already have free will. The role of the devil is to try and convince you to do things that are 'bad for you or other people'.

Are you asking is God Evil and the Devil Good ?

If so morals are a human concept and completely subjective to the individual. I would suggest that both entities (lets call them Creator and Adversary) are beyond that kind of concept, they merely are, they fufill their roles and in so doing we have the material world. Within which we start deciding whether we like something (its good) or we dont (its evil).



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Dictatorship ?!? Thats a very modern concept. If we look at the animal kingdom we will see that there is normally a singular leader within a community.

You just said that a dictatorship is a modern concept and then you say look at the animal kingdom and you will see how old the idea of dicatorship is.
Yep that's what you just said!


Originally posted by gYvMessanger
The idea of democratic rule is one which has consistently failed in its incarnations through modern society. That isnt to say that it cant work, only that it doesnt currently.

Currently?
Like where is it currently in effect and not working?
Don't say U.S., that's not a democratic rule.


Originally posted by gYvMessanger
You blame god and call it dictator or big brother because their are rules that govern your life ? If you put your hand in fire is it Gods fault you got burnt ? Or is it your fault for placing your hand in the fire knowing the rules under which it operates ?

Explain yourself without giving an analogy please.
Which rules that govern my life are you referring to?
The ones god has created?
Fire is a bad analogy and irrelevant too.


Originally posted by gYvMessanger
The modern concept of the Devil is all over the place. But it seems your using a christian definition whereby the Devil is a figure which "grants free will" even though he doesnt actually. You already have free will. The role of the devil is to try and convince you to do things that are 'bad for you or other people'.

So you are saying the biblical God is not trying to curb my free will?
I disagree!



Originally posted by gYvMessanger
If so morals are a human concept and completely subjective to the individual. I would suggest that both entities (lets call them Creator and Adversary) are beyond that kind of concept, they merely are, they fufill their roles and in so doing we have the material world. Within which we start deciding whether we like something (its good) or we dont (its evil).

If they fullfill their roles in good vs. bad then they are very much NOT beyond that kind of concept, in fact their characters are actually that kind of concept-centric.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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There is a difference between 'a dictatorship' and being ruled over by a singular leader for the good of the community. Admittadely mainly in the conotation of the word. A Dictator is someone who forces you to obey their will and actively punishes you for going against them. A singular leader is someone who tries to guide their people and will let them make their own mistakes if need be without further repurcussions from themselves.

I'm not interested in hearing how mortal agencies tell you that you will burn in hell if you dont do WHAT THEY SAY. Thats entirely different to god being a foreceful dictator. If for example during Saddams reign in Iraq you went up to him an insulted him, very shortly after you would be dead. That is because Saddam is a dictator. Why dont you try that with God. You'll probably still be here thirty years from now.

As for the fire analogy. My position is there are rules which govern the universe. The rules are not good or evil, they just are. Some you are forced to obey (mostly) such as gravity, entropy etc Others you have a choice to obey, such as eating healthy, avoiding dangerous situations etc. When harm is inflicted on you because you chose to to step in harms way this is not an evil act on behalf of the universe, it is just cause and effect.

The biblical God gave you free will (according to scripture). The religions (and other institutions) of man mostly are the things which take your free will away, and even then they say you have a choice to live how you like and then rot in hell etc. Im not going to argue the rights and wrongs of mainstream religion with you as I dont agree with them myself.

And finally just because we choose to label things good and evil (labels we made ourselves and are totally subjective to the individual) does not make them so. Too much free will can be just as evil as not enough of it. Look at Hitler. Way too much free will.



posted on Feb, 2 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Why dont you try that with God. You'll probably still be here thirty years from now.

Sure.. you got his address?



Originally posted by gYvMessanger
As for the fire analogy. My position is there are rules which govern the universe. The rules are not good or evil, they just are. Some you are forced to obey (mostly) such as gravity, entropy etc Others you have a
choice to obey, such as eating healthy, avoiding dangerous situations etc.

Wait.. You just said I blame god for the rules that are laws of nature.
Which rules were you talking about?
How am I blaming god for gravity?



Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Look at Hitler. Way too much free will.


The difference is free will is a personal thing governed by personal choices.
keyword here is personal.

Genocide is far from personal.

I see abortion as the same thing, it's not a personal choice, there's another life invovled.



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