"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Hx3_1963

 

You bring up many issues, almost all of which I agree. However it skirts the real issue and question: Is the US Bankrupt the answer is no. Is the Income Tax illegal? The answer is yes, but only because the Amendment did not get 2/3rds vote (And a Direct Tax would more likely cause higher rates of taxation than income, and reduce the poor into deeper states of poverty) and of course "Fiat" means Commanded Currency .. Gold is a Fiat, just as Production to create the Reserve notes is a Fiat. Is it right or wrong, that's another discussion .. the fact is money is money regardless of what it's called so long as it can be traded for goods and services.

You could get into the schematics of all this crap .. but quite frankly just because I owe 30 years on a mortgage doesn't mean I am bankrupt... Maybe you and Proto need to re-read the definition of Bankruptcy?

You keep telling yourself what ever you need to, to sleep at night my friend!

You might want to do some reading yourself starting with the New York Times Archives in 1916 and work yourself on up to and through the Great Depression.

There is some good history there!

Hot off the presses is the way I love my news!

Then study some Latin and hit, hit, hit those treaties.

Get some news and information outside of the propoganda mill now and then.

Don't be afraid it's only reality.

World War I certainly was not a good thing for us my friend. That you could imagine that the death of millions of Americans or millions of anyone adds to prestige and stature at the tragic loss of such life is well...rather wasteful.

Human beings do have some value you know.

We were tricked into the War, and had heavily loaned and armed all sides in the conflict before being tricked into the war.

The Lusitania was loaded with ammunition when it went down off the coast of the U.K.

Study the Laws of the Sea and the issue of Prizing regarding the British.

Look then at who negotiated the financial aspect of the Versailles Treaty for Germany, Max Warburg head of the Reichs Bank, look then at who negotiated the financial end of the treaty for the U.S., absolving England and France of all responsibility for their war debts and charging they be paid by the Germans. His name was Paul Warburg.

He was head of the Federal Reserve.

Who cares if they were brothers or if the Versailles treaty was negotiated at the Palace of Versailles, owned by the same Lord Rothschild that the Balfour Declaration was personally addressed to by the British Parliment awarding lands in yet to be conquered Palestine for a Zionist/Jewish Homeland at a time when the English were bankrupt, and the French Mutinying and the Germans in a dominant battle field position and economic one.

That was until the Reichsbank cut off the Kaiser's Government line of Credit and America was coerced into the war.

Wow you should read what they had to say about that in the News Papers when all the side deals hit the peace table, and while you are at it you might want to read up why our Congress refused to ratify the treaty and how the Germans never paid us back for the British and France debts let alone their own.

Yes that would give us something real to talk about.

Though if you like your pretend version of history it's yours to keep for just yearly payments due every April 15th for the rest of your life! Act now, it is a limited time offer. You can keep trying out your version of history at home free for another 237 days before having to make the next payment. Act now, operators are standing by!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You might want to do some reading yourself starting with the New York Times Archives in 1916 and work yourself on up to and through the Great Depression.

Do you realize who you're talking to? ... I am sure there are plenty of people who can vouch for my grasp on economics... I am quite certain my assertions are sound.

Then study some Latin and hit, hit, hit those treaties.

???

Get some news and information outside of the propoganda mill now and then

??? This has nothing to do with news?

World War I certainly was not a good thing for us my friend. That you could imagine that the death of millions of Americans or millions of anyone adds to prestige and stature at the tragic loss of such life is well...rather wasteful.

The loss of lives is immaterial to the well being of the State as an Entity. The tactical advantages from trade and political standing where beneficial.. to which we can tank the countless men who offered their lives so that our Nation could entire the realm of Military Power...

Human beings do have some value you know.

Philosophically.. sure... ???

We were tricked into the War, and had heavily loaned and armed all sides in the conflict before being tricked into the war.

If a US Bank funds a war over seas, and we win the war, and our allies pay debts to that bank (or government it's self) .. how does that not benefit us?

The majority of the war (both WWI and WWII were funded by US Civilians through tax and bonds.)




Your just rambling I don't even know why I am responding to this..

You apparently know your history very well my friend.. as well as anyone who watched one to many youtube videos does any ways... It doesn't change anything or disprove anything I have said thus far.. Personally, I believe I am more economically and historically inclined than you perceive yourself to be...

*sigh.. look how we have digressed from the thread*

reply to post by Rockpuck


Like I suggest my friend read the News Papers, probe a bit deeper.

I don't recall mentioning Youtube as a source for anything.

I have my own channel on Youtube it has videos of my band!

I even get fan mail sometimes!

The whole point of the thread is how special interests play a key in Government.

Du Punt wrote a personal letter to Wilson in 1917 asking if he would be so kind as to not rush his prosecution of the war. His personal profits the year before off of his patents and munitions had been 214 million dollars.

Now just so you know my friend the average coal miner earned 2.00 dollars a week in 1916. That was the kind of man who typically had to die for Dupont to rake in his 214,000,000.00 for these glorious wars of foreign intervention that our fore fathers did not want us fighting.

No one attacked us. We don't live in Europe what should it matter to us, that someone has to give their life while someone profits insanely and uses his personal wealth to press the government to maintain such a status quo for the mere sake of wealth.

Did Dupont need money so desperately that 214,000,000 couldn't tie him over for a while at a time when the average poor American made 2.00 a week?

So much so that he had to as a non elected official solicit such advice to the President?

It's only reality friend, no need to be frightened of it.

Or to make excuses for it.

It's your right to like it. To some people all that does matter is power and ego.

That is what plaques many of our elected officials and corporate titans.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I mean seriously.. shouldn't you pick one topic and focus your ranting around it? You're all over the place mate, I have no idea what it is you're trying to say...

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I mean seriously.. shouldn't you pick one topic and focus your ranting around it? You're all over the place mate, I have no idea what it is you're trying to say...

I would hope the words speak for themselves my friend. I can appreciate though you are having trouble following along with the concept of corporate interests influencing and lobbying government in unseemly ways that don't benefit the citizens.

If you feel that lobbying the government by special interests though is a good thing somehow when corporate and foreign interests supercede American citizen's interest and increase their tax burden and their debt, which I guess you don't feel being 11 Trillion dollars in debt to say a COMMUNIST COUNTRY LIKE CHINA is like a bad economic position to be in and represents sound fiscal planning well, hey..???? Alright, sounds kind of precarious to me though.

I appreciate you feel strongly that these things are alright

Thanks for sharing!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I would hope the words speak for themselves my friend. I can appreciate though you are having trouble following along with the concept of corporate interests influencing and lobbying government in unseemly ways that don't benefit the citizens.

Then you would understand there has never been a government that does not accept influence from it's economy or creditors? Well.. except this one government ... Henry XIV

If you look through the thread at my own comments, the Federal Government no longer represents the States.. but to assume all forms of lobbying, in any fashion, would be dissolved under any other form of government is absurd.

It's funny that we probably agree on nearly everything.. you just have an exaggerated way of coming to certain conclusions..

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I would hope the words speak for themselves my friend. I can appreciate though you are having trouble following along with the concept of corporate interests influencing and lobbying government in unseemly ways that don't benefit the citizens.

Then you would understand there has never been a government that does not accept influence from it's economy or creditors? Well.. except this one government ... Henry XIV

If you look through the thread at my own comments, the Federal Government no longer represents the States.. but to assume all forms of lobbying, in any fashion, would be dissolved under any other form of government is absurd.

It's funny that we probably agree on nearly everything.. you just have an exaggerated way of coming to certain conclusions..

I agree that people should always have the right to lobby and petition their government. If Senator Rockefeller, wants to take the afternoon off, to talk to himself about his oil interests with himself hey...he should be able too

I guess when you are that rich they won't take you to the funny farm!

Concerned parties should present themselves not through ambassadors.

If you are too busy and too rich to be bothered yourself to go in person or call in person, well chances are you just don't personally need anything from the government.

So get the paid to be there and tie up our representatives out of line and present yourself as a person to petition your government.

Let's see who is really asking for what. Let's put our lawmakers under the same kind of invasive security they want to enslave us with. Let's video tape and monitor them and record them 24 hours a day!

After all they do want to serve and we are paying them for the privelage.

Let's take the bagmen out of the middle, let's take their privacy away, and lets have some real transparency in government where it's all a matter of public record for public consumption.

After all my friend it is the people's business.

11 Trillion in debt and mounting? Come on friend, we are so bankrupt the only thing keeping us in the Monopoly Game is by being the Banker.

Oh and driving the economy and the citizens into the ground. Good old Exxon and Rockefeller are still raking in record profits in the billions each month!

I guess it pays to be able to talk to yourself huh?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agree with your points, however with 300million people and counting, we cannot possibly imagine all our concerns will be represented?

Some lobby groups provide representation for a collective group of citizens.. for instance, I am a member of the NRA .. they represent my right to own a fire arm and carry it where ever I want as the Constitution says is my right. Or all the NRA members could continuously call the House offices and hope someone will care.. in all likelihood the phones would be jammed and no one would have a say.

I would say that Corporations should not have any lobbying rights at all .. they represent themselves as entities.. and to often they are multi-national or transborder entities.. their needs rarely benefit the people. And they certainly don't vote.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Regardless of your politics, or your personal opinion of the person represented by the nameplate on the Oval Office, the culture of "get him" we now see is beyond perilous. In fact, it so horrific and dangerous to our culture it's difficult to find the appropriate adjective.

Sad.That is how it sounds to me...simply sad.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The basic unfairness of the situation may or may not ever become apparent to others, and perhaps that is not the point. The point is to get back to the unadorned truth, at the core, and resolve never to get so far away from the essentials again.

This is what we need to do,get back to the essentials.

Originally posted by cranberrydork

Originally posted by JayinAR
Nor do I trust a beaurocracy to handle my health.

So, how do you get around the position that a bureaucracy is already handling your health? Go check "medical loss ratios" for some idea about the bureaucracy already handling health issues.

Don't bother, they do not get it.

People that harp about not wanting a bureaucracy getting in the way of their health care either have never actually needed health care or are just so completely ignorant of what they themselves deal with that it is almost funny. Yesterday I spent 2 hours, 14 phone calls, and my doctor had to write my prescription 4 times before she found a dose my insurance would cover. They denied this and that because it seemed like too much to them! How is Aetna not a bureacracy???? Who is anyone at Aetna to decide what dose of medication is right for me? Not one doctor from aetna has met with me, spoke with me, nothing. Just some ass sitting at a desk pushing numbers around kept denying my scrip because the health insurance that I pay quite a bit for already - didnt want to cover it. If I have to choose between Aetna screwing me and the government screwing me...I am gonna go with whoever is cheapest. If I am gonna get screwed either way...there might as well be an affordable public option for getting screwed as well.

[edit on 8/15/09 by evil incarnate]

reply to post by Rockpuck


This sounds radical and I agree that it is radical but in my humble oppinion groups like the NRA have failed the citizen in it's endeavors.

The right to bear arms in fact was primarily to safegaurd citizens against a tyranical government coming to power here in the United States.

But the citizens right to bear arms has not kept pace with the government's right to bear arms.

Can you carry a bazooka, rpg, hand held surface to air missiles, in your own armed hellicopter with hell fire missiles and .50 calibre machine guns, and land it on your own nuclear powered aircraft carrier?

No you can't. The NRA sold us out! The government has a supperior tactical and weapons advantage over the citizens.

Way to go NRA...I think I should have called instead!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Lol.. no, I s'pose I cannot (legally) own an RPG, or SAM..

But without the NRA's lobbying I fear the Liberals would have long ago taken my gun rights away.. probably before I was even born..

So an AR15 is better than nothing... We could be like the Brits.. nothing left but forks and spoons to defend ourselves.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Lol.. no, I s'pose I cannot (legally) own an RPG, or SAM..

But without the NRA's lobbying I fear the Liberals would have long ago taken my gun rights away.. probably before I was even born..

So an AR15 is better than nothing... We could be like the Brits.. nothing left but forks and spoons to defend ourselves.

And now you have hit the nail on the head of the point I am trying to make. You can't legally under Corporate Law own these things but under Nature's law there is nothing but Corporate Law to stop you from owning said things. You can still posses them if you choose to but simply have to accept the consequences of corporate law if you are found owning one. Yet if in reality you own one and never use it as it is just for defense purposes and you have never had the need to defend yourself to that point who in reality has been injured in anyway shape or form by you owning it. That's why Corporate Law sucks. You will be fined, you will be imprisoned, you will be forced to labor for the Corporate State as a result who will profit off of those labors and in reality there is no injured party?

Can you see where I am troubled by this and the point that I am trying to make. It does not threaten me if in fact you own such a device because there would be no reason for you to use it against me unless you were under attack by me. So as long as I do you no harm that would cause that, and you do me no harm, where is their harm being done?

Now it boils down to the State doesn't trust you to exercise good judgement in possesion of such a device supposedly to safequard the state and the people, and while many people will say that makes sense, ultimately it perpetuates a belief that no one can be trusted except the government to decide these things, and the government has proven itself to be the least trust worthy of all.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Now when you look at issues like this a little deeper lets look at the Enforcement Agency involved the ATF, Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

All three are basically legal commodities providing they are …taxed!

Buy or sell some moonshine, buy or sell some home grown tobacco, buy or sell some non-approved weapons or outside of the Taxing Corporate Structure for their dispersal and sale and you have a problem!

They want there tax.

So many of the so called ‘vice-crimes’ are crimes and only become crimes when they have no taxing mechanism to profit off of the vices as a Corporate Government.

Prostitution and Gambling is legal in places like Nevada because the State regulates it in a way that it can be monitored but monitored for Tax purposes. If the Federal Government and State can get their cut they have no problem, yet if it occurs in an environment where it can’t or isn’t being regulated and monitored so they can get their Tax they have a problem. Now you get to where both the religious right in a lobbying form and the liberal left in a lobbying form impact citizens free will because most of the places it isn’t legal is from these groups strong arming our representatives to legislate morality that basically harms no one and impinges on freewill.

Now when you look at it that way, now you can see another angle where the Taxing mechanism usurped by the Federal Government they were never meant to have then also becomes a mechanism to not just profit either through taxation or labor through the prison industrial complex through corporations like UNICORE, where the tax payer pays for the incarceration and it’s cost of upkeep for the prisoner but private corporate interests financially profit off of the labor of those inmates without having to invest in their upkeep either. It’s like getting workers for free which is basically what the corporations got in Nazi Germany. Slave labor for free from concentration camps where most of the inmates did not subscribe to Nazi morality and thinking, in our case it’s all born out of a desire to profit through tax to sustain, enrich and grow and increasingly taxing and intrusive government who wants to legislate thought and morality and strip freewill and natural inclinations in that process, knowing that because the inclinations are natural and primal there will always be an abundance of opportunities to profit through tax and forced labor for them.

Does such a system, and that really is the system, sound to you like what our fore fathers wanted in the Constitution?

This is yet one more example of why the founders did not want to give the Federal Central Government the unfettered license and ability to tax at it's sole discretion.

It destroys liberty and freewill and enslaves people to a false morality that is counterproductive to natural living.

reply to post by Springer


To some degree that would work, but things are so far out of control. We go to court, the Judges turn a blind eye and throw us out. We support people like Ron Paul and Dr. Keyes, but the media only supports the "popular" canidates.

We protest and are labeled terrorists, we stand on the Constitution and the FBI labels us terrorists.

The money is so minipulated that only a few can experience true good health, food, and housing without worry.

Even the question of survival for most oof us is out of the question, with what funds? And we free people don't help each other out.

So how do you think waiting until 2012, when it will be to late anyway, to vote in another bunch of folks?

They must be fired right now today, they are not just a conspiracy, they are committing treason. But what LEO will arrest them?

Thousands believe that it is the end times so we can do nothing but sit back and watch the show. Others, like those on ATS, are speaking to the choir but rarely coming up with any real plan.

I read Silent Weapons, Quiet Wars, back in the 80's, I heard General Keegan in Pasadena in the 70"s, I fought to stop GWEN in Montana in the 90's. And here in the 21st Century I see we have gotten worse not better.

However, throughout history the people who carried the truth and love of freedom, kept on with their daily toil and in the end each time period showed the fall of the elite and a positive change for the people.

The lie screams and waves its arms to make you think it is all powerful, the truth speaks quietly and continuesly, like a strong thread in a weak garment.

My mother always told me to tell the truth, that the truth would out in the end. We may not be able to stop the dismantling going on today, but we can build a subfoundation that will stand when the present house of cards falls.

In order to do that we must first rewrite the Constitution in a clear way and plainly see all the ways we have been misdirected. Here on ATS we have many threads, now lets weave a new garment that holds the pillars of the Constituion together in a way that gives us a blueprint for the future.

Apollo,Acron, NWO, OSB, WHO, UN, etc, who are they all, what is the overall agenda, how have they manipulated us and how can we see the true line of freedom amidst the rubble of illusions?

Lets stop talking, lets do something together, here as a group that wants to keep us free.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Be the change you wish to see. You are not powerless. Part of your initiation into the true universe is forgetting everything you thought you knew. Realize that you have been lied to and amend your model of reality. The universe functions exactly like a hologram. Any change, no matter how minute, will affect the whole in ways you can only begin to imagine. We live in a highly structured reality. Regardless of what you've been told, the world is not a free-for-all grab for power. That is only part of the illusion which we must all strive to overcome. Your fate is in your hands, just as the fate of the world lies with all of us collectively. The real revolution is a silent one. There are no guns, no protesters, no media coverage. This is a revolution of consciousness, and the rebirth of humankind. I don't expect anybody to believe or even comprehend my words, but this is so much bigger than all of us.

This conflict may manifest itself by various means and assume any number of forms, but the real, underlying struggle is a frequency war and it is very real, make no mistake. This war must decide whether the planet will be in fear or in love, whether the people will express themselves through acts of blinded violence or unconditional compassion. No lobbyist can decide the outcome of this war, no shadowy cabal or ancient order of magicians. The outcome is in your hands. You, the people of Earth, the children of God. You must decide your fate. If it were up to somebody else, there would be no conflict. That there is a war means there is another side. But you won't see them in angry mobs at town hall meetings or on the streets. The other side, the ones who are truly a threat to the so-called "powers that be" are the real silent majority. This side has no leader, no master, no guru, because it is you, all of you, who must fill these roles. Your real vote doesn't belong to any politician or contentious bill. Your vote for change is in how you choose to live your life.

Though Obama is but one man, and I firmly believe that he is a reflection of our own hopes for change. But hopes alone are not enough. If it is positive change you want, then you must choose to live your life with integrity and courage, and exercise your will from a place of compassion. It catches on a lot faster than you can imagine and today is as good a day as any to start. Forty years ago today, an entire generation changed the world forever. Personally, I can't think of a better way to celebrate than spreading around a little bit of that peace and love.

Hopium,is a very powerful "ism",there is something in between,all of these "isms",an interstitial place.....where we are now.....la la land

Stop trying to fix something that is broken,move onto the future,think about what is Gone,Concentrate on what Remains,...........

March 13, 2008 Congress was tricked into allowing a secret meeting in which they were told that there would be an economic collapse in Sept 2008, an upheval mid 2009 in which members of Congress due to their voting records would be in danger of their lives from angry constituents but would be protected by DHS and fema and that part the of public would be preemptively rounded up and detained in fema camps and that we would have a North American Union w Mexico & Canada and the dollar be changed to an Amero. The fact that they could be terrorized by our government and be distanced from the people in a divide & conquer ploy shows the treasonous and criminal intent. Our legislators cannot be expected to listen to us in this kind of environment