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"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

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posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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Thank you Protoplasmic Traveler.

You have sent me thinking (which is a good or bad thing depending on perspective) and I have arrived at this question...which may be better suited for a seperate thread.

Given the fact that Congress passes a ton of laws and taxes get added by people we do not know without any actual effort to inform the general populace of these laws (for decades now)...

How can a system that passes laws for a population expect conformity to these laws if the general populace is not specifically informed of these laws?

It harps back to the educational factor earlier in this thread...if people don't know then how can they be expected to conform.

I think transparency is a greater issue then even I originally considered.

[edit on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:38:45 -0500 by MemoryShock]




posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by EnlightenUp
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Now I remember you mentioning the go-between with the employer.

No, it's not about being "bad" or anything. It's about when one talks about this stuff, be prepared for tons of questions. I know I would be.

Since this country, as I have come to understand, has more laws and perhaps even pages of laws on the books, than any other country on earth, it is nearly impossible to know with reasonable confidence how to navigate the system. It's so bad that ignorance of the law really is an excuse. You mentioned the judge in your proceeding had to scan law books. They're paid and educated to know and still don't know. I guess we "citizens" are expected to know more about it than the so-called experts.

Obviously in that way it's rigged. No question about it.


Ignorance of the law is no excuse...they will tell you, but the reality is they want you to be ignorant of the laws.

The only Constitutional legal laws are the Constitution and any amendments or statutes up until 1861 when the Corporate Dictatorship took over. Everything after that is Corporate Contract Law. That's why the Contracts become so key.

The judge asks you to enter a plea, guilty or not guilty...

If you say one of those two words you just bound yourself to let them decide whether you are guilty or not guilty. You have created an oral contract in a court of law to let the Judge impose Corporate Law on you...

Say this word...No your Honor, I am innocent! Now a whole new world opens up. The constitution says you are innocent until proven guilty.

Guilty not guilty takes much of the burden of proof of proving you guilty because you have just been tricked into what is essentially a coin toss the court gets to decide.

They took the burden off of themselves of proving guilt, and just put the burden on you of proving your not guilty, when of course the Constitution says in fact you are innocent until proven otherwise.

See how simple yet utterly deceptive and tricky it becomes.

Just changing that one word on their part from innocent to not guilty brings you into their jurisdiction.

No one will ever tell you that few people know.

Very, very few people know the complete truth in this world friend.

I sure don't, but I am closer to it than most people.

Ignorance is bliss and in fact I wish I didn't know about 75% of what I know. I wouldn't be on ATS right now worried about the rest of the world, I would be out in some mindless endeavor in some blissful state enjoying the palm trees and beautiful women.

Some people use knowledge which is the ultimate power for personal gain and wealth like our Masters.

True Masters though in the Eastern sense share and teach knowledge and are constantly learning in the process from those they teach and as a matter of passion and curiousity.

Most people are more interested in being 'right' than they are correct.

Once the feel they have the right answer, "You must pay your taxes" it doesn't matter to them if that's correct or not. What matters to them is they think they are right! Now it becomes a matter of pride to them of not wanting to be wrong, when it comes to learning whether they are just 'Right' or whether they are correct. One is a perception, one is a fact.

Once again it's always the polar opposites. I have to be right, I don't want to be wrong, I don't care about correct, I care about being right, even if the only way I can be right is convince everyone else they are wrong even though I still might not be correct.

People are engrossed in our Master's polar opposite system of Right and Wrong, Left/Right, Conservative/Liberal it's always divide and conquer, it's always a choice between extremes. You always must be one or the other.

They turn life into a constant argument because the reality is there are people who do know the entire truth. They won't share it because knowledge is power. They use it to confuse you and enslave you instead of helping you and enlightening you.

I am just trying to help people learn and learn myself in the process.

I don't think that's right, I don't think that's wrong, I think it's the correct thing to do.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Ignorance of the law is no excuse...they will tell you, but the reality is they want you to be ignorant of the laws.


It certainly isn't an excuse... but it is a reason.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock
Thank you Protoplasmic Traveler.

You have sent me thinking (which is a good or bad thing depending on perspective) and I have arrived at this question...which may be better suited for a seperate thread.

Given the fact that Congress passes a ton of laws and taxes get added by people we do not know without any actual effort to inform the general populace of these laws (for decades now)...

How can a system that passes laws for a population expect conformity to these laws if the general populace is not specifically informed of these laws?

It harps back to the educational factor earlier in this thread...if people don't know then how can they be expected to conform.

I think transparency is a greater issue then even I originally considered.

[edit on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:38:45 -0500 by MemoryShock]


Well my friend it's easy, knowledge is power and they want you confused.

The more confused you are, the more uncertain you are the more compliant and manageable you are.

It takes guts and self confidence to stand up for your rights in places like courts, and police stations, and IRS offices.

They try to rob you of that confidence by keeping you as much as they can in the dark. They love to trick you and many law enforcement officers, collection agents, and judges actually find sadistic and humurous pleasure in how they trick people. They practice it, they study it.

I don't work in car sales anymore but we do the same thing in car sales.

We practice tricking people in various ways, in leading them, in controlling them, in putting on a show, and using our superior knowledge of the process to our advantage.

We tell sales people, even if your customer has bought and sold 20 cars in his life, he is an amatuer, you sell 20 cars a month, you sell a car every day, you are a professional the customer is an amatuer, take what he thinks he knows and use it against him to your advantage.

Now the truth is if you don't, you won't sell, because if you try to educate people who think they are right, well they reject that. So you let them believe they are that darn clever even though they really aren't, because ego wise that's what they want and need to feel confident to make a purchasing decision.

What the system tries to do is take your confidence away, to make you feel like you are on thin ice, pins and needles, they know better, you don't, you must obey.

They don't want transparency, they want confusion, order out of chaos and that's what all those laws are for. Like in Vegas they want you thinking emotional, double down, triple down, it's your last chance, you have to do it now!

It's all about unballancing you keeping you uncertain and looking ultimately to them for cues and guidance, and that's when they have you!

Right where they want you.

It is a dog eat dog world my friend, and our government really is an organized criminal enterprise that has been operating outstide of the constitution since 1861!

[edit on 13/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
This is the Release of Levy Form notice it's date!

Just like I said.



First, thanks for uploading.


However, you very well could have obtained this after having settled your obligation.

www.taxmattersonline.com...

This doesn't really "prove" that you didn't have to pay any income tax, simply that your employer no longer had to levy your wages.

If I call that 1-800 number on the bottom I wonder what they might say, if they are allowed to say anything because of privacy.

I can't think of any particular form off the top of my head which would actually prove you didn't have to pay these taxes.


I do appreciate you uploading the doc.. I'm just wondering... do you have anything which stated how much you owed? Like I wonder if it's easy if it's less than $10k or something like that... Keep in mind I usually pay more than $50k a year in taxes, so it may be a bad idea for me :-)



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Preaching to the choir. You may be surprised at what I know. My focus was centered on the general angle and how it applies to society and that which is propagated on a daily basis.

That said, I am ignorant of the legalese and your expression has certainly opened my eyes.

I am aware that transparency is yet another term that people don't understand, as in they wouldn't recognize the application. The level of comprehension in todays society is ridiculous.

I will, of course, follow up on your thoughts and look into this more. I have been extracting myself from the 'public radar', as it were, for quite awhile and this is very interesting.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Ignorance of the law is no excuse...they will tell you, but the reality is they want you to be ignorant of the laws.


It certainly isn't an excuse... but it is a reason.


That's why it is so important to understand the actual hidden laws.

There your reason does become valid and extenuating.

In corporate contract law, a contract is a contract is a contract.

From the moment they start talking to you they are forming contracts...

I need you to sign this statement!

Sign this fingerprint Card.

Sign this bond.

Sign this form.

Everytime they ask you to sign something, that is a contract.

So much of what they do you have a legal right under the constitution to resist, but they will intimidate you under the colour of authority trying to get you to submit and when they have guns and handcuffs and rooms with bars and batons and tasers, well hey...most people will end up falling prey to the colour of their authority and sign the contracts.

Try not signing a speeding ticket! You are on the way to jail. Sit in jail and wait to see a judge and tell them you are there under duress and a natural human being and have no obligation to sign the ticket under the constitution and ask them to declare their oaths of office and respective powers...they are going to show you to the street so quick your head will spin, no ticket, no charge...but, it's a process you have to go through and most people would rather submit than take that chance and inconvenience.

You really have to want to be free in this world.

The sad truth about inalienable rights is they really only are inalienable when you fight for them, what the constitution really grants you is the privelage of fighting for your rights. They can not charge you for fighting for your rights, they can and will try to take them away from you if you alienate yourself from them.

That's why the country is so screwed up, people think their inalienable rights are gauranteed. They are not, you are gauranteed an opportunity to make them inalieanable by always fighting for them. Just like our forefathers did.

If you won't stand up then you better sit down. If you aren't prepared for a fight, then you better sit down. If you want to win and keep your rights, you better stand up, and you better fight for them, and you better fight for them tooth and nail because that's what our forefathers did and that's how they discovered they become inalienable.

That doesn't make sense to most people, but it makes sense to me.

Thanks for asking.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


I have read some of your threads friend, and you know some very formidible and wonderful things. I have learned some things from you from them, and I thank you for that.

A lot of what I post is for general consumption, please filter out what doesn't apply for you, or you already know, I am just trying to share in as broad a way as I can for everyone.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Sure Hunka as a matter of fact I do.

I know it ticks you off and you want to debunk it so I will humor you.

Spoiled sport!

Give me ten minutes!

Notice that it says I owe nothing on the release all the dollar fields are blank.

I will scan what they wanted to collect.

Look for it in 10 minutes.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In corporate contract law, a contract is a contract is a contract.

From the moment they start talking to you they are forming contracts...


Maybe by law but I see you haven't dealt with the supplier side of the automotive industry. If they can sneak the parts out the back of the plant and not pay you, they will and there isn't much you can do about it-- it's an oligopsony. It would have been a better situation for the automakers and everyone else if they honored their agreements or even worked with suppliers in a flexible way. But, they wanted to be hotshots.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by EnlightenUp]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

So, in other words you do take advantage of some of the amenities which are paid for by other citizens of this country, but you don't want to pay for it yourself.

That sounds very familiar. Like someone that is a non-contributing member and is taking advantage of what the government provides.


edit to add: D'oh, maybe we should be getting back on topic.

[edit on 8/13/2009 by Hal9000]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Sure Hunka as a matter of fact I do.

I know it ticks you off and you want to debunk it so I will humor you.


No not at all... it doesn't tick me off. I'm just trying to approach it with a skeptical eye that's all. I appreciate you humoring me :-)




Spoiled sport!

Give me ten minutes!

Notice that it says I owe nothing on the release all the dollar fields are blank.


Yep.. that I did take note of. As I read the description of what that form is when I looked it up it says that it sometimes has an amount which would be the last amount the employer is supposed to take. It doesn't *have* to have an amount, but it may.



I will scan what they wanted to collect.

Look for it in 10 minutes.

Thanks.


K... I'm answering your post as I go, so you may have already posted it... if so I'll respond after reading.

Thanks Proto...



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 


That is a good point...


Proto... can you start another thread and alert us to it?


Thanks!



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


That took a while to find! As you can see it involved about 20,000 in change, going back a number of years before they put through the Levy.

Because you own a business and I assume you are incorporated and file an 1120, or 1120S and have employees and a Federal Employee Identification number you are going to have a hard time avoiding taxes as a corporation.

What you pay yourself from your corporation essentially is from one artificial human being to another who both happen to be you in the eyes of the law.

If you simply filed a 1040 Schedule C, Self Employed normally and had no FEI number and no employees paid on the books, then life would get different for you.

As a corporation, paying yourself a W-4 Wage, and Schedule K Dividends, you are basically locked into their contractual system as well as withholding payroll taxes and workers comp for your employees.

If you are paying 50,000 in taxes it likely means you are pulling down around 140,000 gross give or take depending on what you are itemizing on your Schedule A.

Maybe another 20,000 or 30,000 on top of that, you are giving up a sizeable chunk of change, and I don’t know if you have state or real estate taxes included in your 50,000 tax bill or adding them later as not being federal.

State taxes are constitutional if your state has Income Tax. Florida doesn’t tax wage earners but does tax corporations. You should move!

Sadly for you I took no audio recording that day, oh I bet they would have been fit to be tied if I had. If I ever have to go again I will go wired! Just for you Hunka!





[edit on 13/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 


No in other words I explained to you already I didn't, and don't.

Do you understand that the Federal Government has been bankrupt since 1931?

That your Federal Income taxes just go to paying off the debt still from World War I?

A war we got tricked into by European Powers?

The reality is I just told you I pay CONSTITUTIONAL over the counter State Taxes...NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND ILLEGAL FEDERAL INCOME TAXES...

But if you enjoy being trivial and petty and want to think I am somehow getting over on you...

You go right ahead and keep paying for the privelage to not be listened to by your representatives and make sure to get that free government swine flu shot Hal!

You deserve one buddy



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Thanks!


I'm curious... what did you do in 93 and 95?

There aren't any amounts listed for those years.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Thanks!


I'm curious... what did you do in 93 and 95?

There aren't any amounts listed for those years.


Some years they were really willing to accept I owed them nothing based on their records of actual wage transcripts.

I have more kids than you can count on one hand Hunka I am heavily exempted under their system of accounting and calculation because of that.

Kids are darn expensive things! They love kids, everytime you pop out another one they can use it as collateral to extend their international lines of credit.

You will likely never come to see the underlying reality that we live on a slave planet, but one of the cheif forms of real currency is humans. A human's future labor and tax value has great value to the corporations.

One of the first things that the Government did away with once we became a corporate state and everyone became property to it as straw men was to do away with the centuries old practice of dueling.

Up until the corporate government took over, you and I could legally challenge one another to a duel, select a judge and kill one or the other or both in the process and it was perfectly legal. Alexander Hamilton for instance one of the founding fathers was killed in a duel. President Jackson had been in quiet a few.

It is one more powerful piece of andectodal evidence that while you might want to say oh this occured from a morality standpoint, no it really occured from once you became state property they didn't want you injured or killed prematurely.

I filed 10 years all at once, by their Code that's all they can ask for. Some years they accepted that I said I owed nothing on the forms, some years based on my income they calculated using their rules that I owed them the amounts seen listed there.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

A swine flu shot!!! That's the last thing I need right now PT. Are you trying to get rid of me? Am I too tough for you?

Alright let's scratch that and get back on topic.

Is there any way for the American citizen to do something that will influence the direction that this country is taking? Besides NOT paying taxes?!?



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

A swine flu shot!!! That's the last thing I need right now PT. Are you trying to get rid of me? Am I too tough for you?

Alright let's scratch that and get back on topic.

Is there any way for the American citizen to do something that will influence the direction that this country is taking? Besides NOT paying taxes?!?



Hal I have to tell you I have been to Bohemian Grove and know quite a few more things that I am not saying and NOOOOOOOO!

There sure isn't buddy. The Cancer is so deeply dug into the host body at this point that you aren't going to kill the one with out the other, though both are in fact killing one another.

There is one little problem that is very hard for most people to wrap there minds around, you see Hal the corporation that runs this country (and I understand you might not accept that it is a corporation that runs this country) runs the world.

Where that becomes vital is in this friend Hal. It's like exterminating for roaches in an apartment building. If you don't exterminate the whole building the roaches in your apartment just run on over to an apartment that isn't being exterminated, wait for the poison to dissipate and then come back on over to your apartment again later on.

In part how we got stuck from the Powers that Be was when there was a backlash against them in Europe in the 1800's they came over here and gave seed money to Rockefeller and Morgan and all those people.

They have absolute control pretty much everywhere, even places like Iran and North Korea believe it or not. There are a couple neutral places on the globe that are havens, but basically havens for them. Paraguay and Uruquay are redoubts and strongholds for them. Good safe place to live if you have money. Switzerland is their repository so that's another safe place to be, but safe for them too. Monaco, Lichtenstein and the Caymans are minor repositories and safe for them and safe for you. Costa Rica is safe for them, safe for you. If you really, really want to play it safe, safe, safe, you want to go to Seborga, it's very small though, but it's the safest of all. It's the last Roman State. It has never pretended to have any other system, and it's always been an independent Roman State since the earliest days of the Republic. Malta would be the second safest place next to Seborga.

The Powers that Be actually completed the infrastructure of the New World Order and a one world state bound by common law and monetary practices right before World War I. Everything since has just been about forcing migrations and removing unwanted elements on a large scale.

They plan to fight one more World War, that's what they are setting the stage for now. When it's over you will have a one world government.

The only thing that can stop it is if the citizens take over the United States again but that's a tough road to hoe. We are broke, only the Powers that Be have Gold and Mineral Wealth and control the paper currency system.

We will be cut off from that if we toss out the Powers that Be, The Powers that Be will simply use their control of the common world wide infrastructure to basically embargo us from all international lines of credit, all imports, while sending one nations army after another to our shores who are all going to be mad because they are sitting on top of what would then be tons of our worthless currency and contracts. Food will be scarce, energy scarce, we will have no currency of value and since we manufacture next to nothing no goods to sell even if anyone would do business with us.

Eventually the weight of the rest of the world would crush us and that's precisely why the Powers that Be are manipulating circumstances to get us to revolt. We divide ourselves first, weaken ourselves in the process, fall out of favor with the rest of the world that looses a fortune in money and contracts in the process and we can be made to heel and forced to accept the one world government and one world currency when it comes.

Good news for you Hal, I think they have Obama slated to either be the first Leader of the World or a major regional leader.

I haven't quite figured out the solution to this problem. In a nutshell we need to get the entire planet to rebel against the Corporation. The Corporation is Rome Hal, it never ceased to exist, and if you look at the Treaty that ended the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 and understand the legalese involved, we were incorporated as a Roman state as was almost every other nation on the planet from the get go.

It's been a divide and conquer war using people's differences to keep conquering one another on Rome's behalf.

Rome is the source of the money, the root of all evil. Rome is the source of the law.

That is in reality what we are up against at this point in time. There are a few people who aren't Powers that Be that actually agree with me on this. A few. So while the rest of you fight over health care, and who should say what when where and how, there are a few of us thinking on it.

The powers that be want a one world government, and they are so close right now it's not funny. It will take a world, not a national solution to have any chance of defeating them.

The founding fathers were all Masons Hal the Revolution in itself was a conspiracy to set up an incorporated Roman State where the people would have the illusion of freedom so they would fight harder as good Romans.

There was a brief period after the Founding Fathers died right after the War of 1812 that the citizens found out about the conspriracy. They burnt down the masonic lodges and most of the masons went under ground. They will scream up and down and tell you otherwise but the Masons are the Knights Templar. Our whole corporate legal system is based on Templar Law. That's why in 1819 they passed the real 13th Amendment keeping Esquires out of the Government and reafirmed states rights hoping to defeat the corporation. By 1861 it was all over though, the corporate interests in the North began industrializing and monopolizing and wanting to dictate to all the States and control the infrastructure. The slavery issue was a minor part of it added later for the corporate Government to sell the idea of the war to the northern Christians. That's when religion and state started to begin to merge.

The United States in your text books is a fairy tale. It existed in Constitutional principal from 1782 to 1861 but the constitution itself was written per the instructions of the Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire who happened to be King George at the time. No one really discovered that though until after the war of 1812. The Treaty of Ghent has a dirty little secret in it that if you don't speak the Latin and understand the legalese you would never spot, know or believe, but it's as real as real can be. From 1819 to 1861 the people really did try to live by the Constitution hoping that they could and would be a stand alone entity.

The corporation won the war though. The Masons in France sent over the Statue of Liberty to Celebrate, the Lawyers and the Masons came roaring back with the patronage of their illuminist Masters. The Statue of Liberty is a Military recruiting sign, we are the safety valve for the rest of the regimes we take their unwanted and trouble makers and act as the world's army. We are the world's police force and the world's army that's our function in the empire. China whose ideology of communism mixed with capitalism is how the Powers that Be want to change the New World Order and they will be the world's army once we are neutralized.

Sadly because Americans believe in this myth that we are free, even though we are perhaps the less free of any nation on the world because we have the best brainwashing and propaganda have to be neutralized to make it all happen.

It's why the Powers that Be orchestrated the World Wide Recession, it's why we got our first black president to divide us along racial lines, it's why the country is divided additionally into a left/right camp and they are really working hard to get the keg to blow, health care, the birth certificate, the economy.

That is what is really going on. The reality is the 97% of the world's wealth is concentrated in fewer than 2,000 hands and they own everything and they are just not the nicest people Hal.

This is a conspiracy site, and this is the conspiracy!

I am working on it, but it does require a global solution.

Aren't you glad you asked Hal?


[edit on 14/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 03:43 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 




Do you understand that the Federal Government has been bankrupt since 1931?


No, it has not..



That your Federal Income taxes just go to paying off the debt still from World War I?


No, it does not.. Tax Receipts are far larger than interest + capital being repaid to debt. The Debt to GDP for the past few years has been high, but even that has never gone past 100%. Last I checked it was roughly 20% or so of Income Tax Receipts funding the debt.



A war we got tricked into by European Powers?


It greatly benefited us.. an infant Nation that won a major military struggle.



The reality is I just told you I pay CONSTITUTIONAL over the counter State Taxes...NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND ILLEGAL FEDERAL INCOME TAXES...


There is no limitation to taxation listed in the Constitution .. only that Congress may levy any tax. Congress levies the Income Tax, thus it's legal. However, the manor in which the 16th Amendment was ratified makes it illegal.. but if it were to be re-voted and passed, it would be entirely legal.

We all use various services provided by Federal and Local governments everyday .. however.. if you feel your tax dollars are best spent else where, do what I do .. donate 50% of the amount you anticipate to be taxed to charity.. most of mine usually goes to various Masonic charities and there was a Marine charity for kids around Christmas I usually donated to. Its not a large amount of money, but I like to know where every penny is going, and I prefer it help people around me. Come tax time I list my charitable donations and I am left to make sure the balance of 50% is handed to the Feds, to waste on corporations, war, and socialist ideology. It's my legal and I like to think more productive way of protesting the Income Tax.

Except this year I am unemployed, so no one gets money at all .. hell I may need a food bank in the future lol.

I have no idea what this thread is about anymore...



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