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"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

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posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I know, I have done the same on many issues. Makes you feel helpless.. But it doesn't work because most likely only you sent a letter, They have no reason to fear you. They do have reason to fear all of us. They cannot get paid if they are not in office.




posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by ShiftTrio
 


Is some none profits organizations that works for the people, hell in some states and cities local government with the help of their citizens has been able to hire their own lobbyist to help with problems that they are having and other wise is not look upon because bigger and more power lobbyist working against the states and cities.

I know because my local base was in Clinton list for closures and thanks to the town getting together and hiring a lobbyist the base stayed open.

It can be done but still money is a big factor.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


So it works... =)
Honestly it works on a town /City level a lot more then most people think. Put a stop sign on this corner, fill that hole, these are all things that get run through by people willing to take the time to do it. It just needs to be organized on a national level now. Certainly money is needed. But if you had the numbers. Perhaps that help comes. I would almost guarantee if you had 10 million people on the same page, funding would not be an issue.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by ShiftTrio
 


Perhaps a None of the Above campaign?



People need to stand up for change. This last election was all about supposed change. We all should have known that was a lie.

En masse the people should vote the two major parties out of office. Elect independent candidates. With the assurance that they don't take it for granted. The people need to use what Obama taught everyone to do this last election. Twitter, Facebook, Myspace, social networking to the masses and use those grass roots ideas to really change this country into something that WE the People can be proud to call America.

The people are tired of the lies. The people are tired of the bull #. People are ready for revolution. The only way to keep it from being bloody is to elect people that will listen to the people and not the powerful.

Elect none of the Above in the next election. Cause the Republicans and Democrats surely aren't in it for the people anymore.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by marg6043
 


Thank you Thank You THANK YOU for posting that. And I'm not meaning to pick on you here, but I'd like to make a point. What is the difference between your lobbying efforts that kept a base from being closed for the economic benefit of a community, and the corporation who employs hundreds of thousands of people lobbying on behalf of their interests?

See, the problem is that we never recognize a situation as bad if it's to our personal advantage. We all vote to give ourselves "stuff", just don't want other people to. It isn't our congressional rep that's bad, it's the other 434.

We'll never get the waste and corruption out of government, because we fuel it, as long as we get our share of the booty.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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So I see that the trend of the conversation is around a "people's" lobby. Or an analysis of how lobbying is practiced.

I see that some are diligently observing lobby activity and clowns for hire - er- political carreerist interaction.

I see that our site has rebranded itself, the logo is very effective.

Yet, isn't it the premise that is flawed?

Should our politicians be accessible to the highest bidder? Should our politicians actually take bids in the first place? Should political service be imbued with the glamor of stardom and faux-heroism?

I suspect that the problem is in the political parties (party) themselves (itself).

They are supposed to be "us." We are TOLD that they are "us." We are indoctrinated to protect THEM as if they were "us."

Yet we know in practice, they are not "us."

"We" are not be courted by the powers that be, THEY are.

Perhaps we should explore the possibility of term limits WITHIN the political party, instead of in government service.

Perhaps lobbyists should be burdened with laws and regulation that LIMIT their accessibility to be equal to our own.

Perhaps 'the right to appeal government for redress' should be examined more closely, since it is the corporate citizen who has that access far above and beyond what "we" have..., all brought to you by 'political' sponsorship and self-interest.

I know it sounds like a 'lobby' of the people should work. But I suspect when you play by the house rules, you are much less likely to win anything, other than another form of shadow puppetry.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by Maxmars]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Dang, you beat me to it!



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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They're all people's lobbies.

Talking about "the people" in a generic sense is never a good idea - "the people" are very diverse and have many different concerns and points of view.

The insurance companies - run by people.

The banks - run by people.

The government - also run by people.

Framing it as "group x vs. 'the people' " is meaningless - those groups are groups of people.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I forgot about that lol..

But the premise is great.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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Well, I think one way to start fixing some of this mess is to vote, consistently vote.

And to do so in what I call, the new parties of America.

(And no this isn't a slam of party names, but it is rather tongue in cheek.)

The New parties being:

Damn-o-Crat :- as in I'll be damned if I vote for someone trying to tear down Our Country just to make their party the only party or those trying to cause harm to Our Country.

Repo-Like-I-Can: as in I will take back my vote and use it to take Our Country out of the hands of those who would destroy it just to make their party the only party or those looking to cause harm to Our Country.. (Repo as in repossess.)

In-Defiance-ent(irely): that I will vote in defiance of (or against) any group or person who seeks to destroy Our Country.

I am proud to say that I have been voting Damn-o-Crat the past few elections


---------

As to protests and revolutions, riots and what not.

Name one riot in recent years that has succeeded in changing anything for the better.

Name one violent protest that has succeeded in recent years in changing any government's behavior for the better.

I can't for the life of me think of any.

While peaceful protests, can draw MSM attention. How many in recent years, where the mass protests were in direct opposition to a government, has violence -not- occurred?

So in the words of Admiral Akbar "It's a Trap!", to think that going to any protest/riot/march against a Government (not just America), demanding a change in that Government, will result in anything but violence.

I'm not saying folks should not march in parades for things like, Aids Awareness, Cancer Cure Support, Gay Pride, Civil Rights and what have you. However, the simple fact is any other 'march' or protest or what have you, against a Government; is likely to only get people hurt or killed.

Sadly, I would likely be able to place a bet and win it; in that if people go out to protest (with out filing parade paperwork work) that such a protest would be likely to have a bitter end.

Frankly I hope to never see an American 'Neda', but I do not doubt there may very well be one created on cue.

I'm not saying you can't or should not protest how the Government is or is not functioning; I am saying that you should do so -sanely- if you do, do it. As in don't throw your life away in the process of doing so.

It's a trap, don't end up as an American (or another country's) Neda. Ending up dead won't help any of us.
M.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Now don't get me wrong, most "corporations" lobbying is not what you think, they help with their money to pass laws that "are not" for the best interest of keeping their workers safe or neither employed or benefiting from pay increases, the lobbying is mostly to keep the profits and to find ways "illegal and legal" to reap the most.

Is a difference and please don't get me wrong but if you research on lobbyist agendas most of the time if not all the time is for their benefits of the ones on top of the chain.

The local base example here in GA, was an effort by the people for the benefit of the people and the town.

When industries in America where lobbying for Clinton to pass the global agenda of trade and NAFTA, the same industries where looking for legal ways to find cheap labor oversea, now who benefited from that? it was all the workers that they left out after their jobs were outsourced out of the country? of the pockets of the industries CEOs.

Big difference my friend, big difference.

Hey I know my stuff you know, well . . . at least most of it.



How can GMC have millions to be lobbying in Washington but at the same time is could file for bankruptcy and take tax payer money? and still left out thousands of workers without jobs?

Is not the same thing.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by PowerSlave

Is there any better reason to start a revolution and overthrow government?


The king is dead, long live the king?

There's a reason it's called a "revolution" ... think about it.


[edit on 11 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]


What this country, NAY, planet needs is an EVOLUTION not a revolution.

I have always suspected TPTB never had our interests at heart. I knew lobbyists owned our government right down to the Resolute Desk but I still held out hope that I was just a paranoid whackjob. It is disheartening to hear from the Overlord's keyboard that I was right.

I think what I fear most right now is that the rage (be it real or faux) will turn violent. Then we are all in a heap of dook.

Obs out



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex
They're all people's lobbies.

Talking about "the people" in a generic sense is never a good idea - "the people" are very diverse and have many different concerns and points of view.

The insurance companies - run by people.

The banks - run by people.

The government - also run by people.

Framing it as "group x vs. 'the people' " is meaningless - those groups are groups of people.


I think this is a bit off the mark - with all due respect. Of course they are all 'people' but they are most decidedly NOT "for" the people..., they define themselves in practice by being only for SOME people.

The conceptual political 'party' itself was supposed to be of and for the people, but they are NOT. They are for "THEIR" people - as their actions clearly demonstrate.

Diversity is a honey-trap for division. And itself, does nothing to counter the efforts of the well-placed, and influential minority.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Moshpet

Name one riot in recent years that has succeeded in changing anything for the better.

Name one violent protest that has succeeded in recent years in changing any government's behavior for the better.

I can't for the life of me think of any.



I can't say that you're definitely correct or not. It seems to me that the French revolution, the American revolution, those who brought us the Magna Carta, or Confucian models of public service, all of these were revolutionary, so to speak. The Vietnam protests, the Anti-Apartheid demonstrations, all have had some notable effects. Lets not forget the incomparable M.K. Gandhi brand of protest. Malcom X and Martin Luther King were effective as well.

I just don't think any of those models will solve this particular failing of the 'career-politician' turned feudal lord model.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by Maxmars]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by observer

What this country, NAY, planet needs is an EVOLUTION not a revolution.


Couldn't agree with you more.


Rest assured it is a coming though, hence why all this transitionary drama.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


But the majority is just an aggregate of minority groups.

I just get very suspicious when I hear someone claiming "the people" want this or "the people" think that - different people want different things.

I am also suspicious of the framing we see a lot here on ATS where it's "TPTB" vs. "the people" - "TPTB" are no more united than "the people" are.

It just seems like lazy thinking to me.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ShiftTrio
 



People need to stand up for change. This last election was all about supposed change. We all should have known that was a lie.



Actually, it's kind of evident that we got change, but not the one we were expecting or wanting. And no I'm not talking about health care or the economy, much less the party in power.

On the supposition that SO's informant was on the level, that the polarization has indeed taken on a 'Damn the Country, the Democrat's President has to go', attitude. Then yes there has been a huge change.

People complain that the two party system is broken; however it would be much worse if there was only -one- party. Of which, if SO's informant is on the level, (and I rather suspect he is), we are looking at a one party trying to become a Regime.

So rather than a 'dictatorial' government (EG one person), we are looking at a 'stream' of dictators that will only hold power or office if they do nothing but toe the party line. Which is not to say the Dems could not achieve the same thing, but this looks like some group may be working setting up that framework.

So yeah, on the supposition that the informant is on the level, we got change.

M.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by marg6043
 


Potayto/potahto. I do think it's the same thing. A corporation has to remain solvent and profitable in order to pay the employees wages and benefits. Sure, the guys at the top get theirs first, but who's the first to feel the pain when they're in jeopardy? The hourly employee and lower level management.

If an unnecessary base can be closed, and it saves taxpayer money, why should government/taxpayer funds be used to keep it open? Sure someone benefits. That's the whole point. Lobbyists by definition are people who attempt to influence legislators and legislation. Anyone who writes a letter to a congressman is a lobbyist.

If we're going to throw out paid lobbyists (which I'm not necessarily adverse to) that means your group couldn't have hired one, either.

Lobbyists in general do provide a valuable service (and I'm not talking about Jack Abramoff here). I'm suggesting to say "Throw out all the lobbyists" is a misguided strategy and although it's emotionally satisfying to isolate a particular scapegoat and say, "It's THEM. Let's get 'em". In the long run that doesn't solve anything. In this case, it would do more harm than good. Modify it, rein it in by all means. Eliminate it? You're just hurting yourself.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by rogerstigers


I heard about a coop of doctors who treat patients on the cheap. They take donations from the community and patients and do not accept any insurance. All patients are treated the same way you might expect a responsible business to treat a client.

I can see this concept of cooperative grass roots action taking hold. Why should we rely on the government. Just do it yourselves. Course I know the real answer is that it is hard and people tend to be lazy these days.
Still, it would be nice to drive for something like that. That would bypass the lobbyists entirely.


Key words there are co-op/cooperative.

We are being trained from the get-go to faction and segregate ourselves.

left/right, black/white, rich/poor...race color class belief.

Start with your inner circle and see if we can work our way outwards.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Is not potatoes our nations government is run by lobbyist and interest groups that are not catering to the well being of the nations population.

No, is not the same thing and is not potatoes,

When industries decided to lobbyist for H1 visas who they were protecting and benefiting? it was not the workers in America or the young out of college students.

When the big finanical institutions where lobbying for the bail outs it was not for the benefits of the regular american consumer and neither for to reduce cost and offer more loans or credit.

U.S. banks will collect a record $38.5 billion in overdraft fees this year

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It most be nice to have the govenrmetn backing up personal wealth at the expenses of a dying economy and dying middle class.

How about when lobbyist lobby for health care obviously our own present administration now has seen the light and how much insurance companies are gouging and reaping the consumer that now they want to do it themselves and call it reform.

How about the so call banckrupcy bill, energy bill the soon to become "crap and trade you know that has been over two thousand lobbyist and interest groups after that bill?

To benefit whom, American lies banckrupt and while the big interest groups thrive, People are still losing homes with banckruptcy laws or not.

I can go on and on, and never be enough, is not potatoes.

Corruption is not the same as fair governemnt


interest groups spent a record $2.14 billion on lobbying members of Congress and 220 other federal agencies last year, according to Political MoneyLine, a nonpartisan research service that tracks campaign contributions. That figure represents a 7 percent increase over 2003 and an astonishing 34 percent jump from the amount of money spent on lobbying in 2001.


Now no wonder that since the campaign reform was introduced nothing has come out of it, because since then interest groups has paid $12 billion on lobbying efforts over that time

Lobbying is so profitable that now most members are ex congressmen or former agencies workers


Nearly 250 former members of Congress and federal agency chiefs have become lobbyists since 1998, while more than 2,200 former federal employees have registered as federal lobbyists.


Most of this people are nothing than parasites taking away from the nations citizens in favor of greedy agendas.

money.cnn.com...



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