"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

reply to post by JayinAR


I understand what you are saying. I do compliment people everyday. Even if they are mean to me for no reason I still "kill them with kindness", like I said as long as it is within reason.

But I agree it will take a cultural revolution, but even then people won't want to give up their i-pods and such. The problem is so simple, but it just takes a lot of sacrifice, much of which people will not give up willingly.

Fortunately, they are already forcing people to give these luxuries up unwillingly, so it will happen but not in the way to enact meaningful change.

My personal opinion is that, things won't ever change, they will only get better for a little while and it will all eventually descend into the same problems. It's just a human condition, until people realize that it can be all about me and is all about me, while still being able to care about other people, things will never change.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


People see what they want to see... hell, you could put a picture of a bunny up and some people will swear its a wolf, because its what they want to see.

How many people have gone on ranting and obviously didn't read your OP in its entirety.. or even partially...

To be on topic, if you add that mentality to general politics, which is the norm, its easy to see how we are in this political situation....

[edit on 8/11/2009 by Rockpuck]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Which position are you assuming?

That chaperone you were talking about.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I had a different take-away. To me, it was clear he was blaming the politicians and the entire state of the political system. And from what I can see of the responses in this thread, nearly everyone appears to have that take-away as well.

But you mentioned that it was only Republican lobyists, how can you be sure those were all, or mostly Republican lobyists? there are Democrat lobysits too you know, and by what the Obama administration has been doing, they don't care what happens to the country, and they don't care what happens to Americans either.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by Rockpuck


Actually i read the entire post, but yes I can see some of the members who responded probably didn't. At least one for certain didn't.


[edit on 11-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


You're probably right.
I mean, even if we found a magic bullet of sorts and were able to stop all of the problems tomorrow, it is likely that things would eventually digress back towards its current state.

But it would still be nice, wouldn't it?

I'm not saying I have any answers. Just that I have come to the realization that SOMETHING must be done.
So what can I do?

I don't know of anything I *can* do short of trying to get people on the same page emotionally. I've got to try something.

If people can unite in an emotional way, no matter which emotion that is, believe me, then you will see REAL change.

Otherwise it won't happen.

For all the Revolutionary wannabes, here's a little checklist for ya:

What's your biggest issue with the government you're rebelling against?

Racist oppression of its own citizens.
I seek home rule, free of colonial leaders.
The dictator uses golden toilets while the peasants starve.
They stand in the way of global proletarian revolution.
I want to replace the foreign-backed monarchy with a republic that follows God's word.
Its a hereditary Monarchy.
Taxation without representation.
It won't recognize the power of the legislative body and limits religious freedoms.
The government won't give enough land and rights to the common people.

What methods do you prefer to achieve revolution?

Maintaining a loyal Liberation Army of the poor and indigenous peoples.
Innovative military techniques. Soldiers are promoted for ability rather than heredity.
Infantry battles, some guerilla warfare, with help from strong foreign powers.
Debate in Legislative Assemblies. Occasional riots in the capital city.
Massive protests and appeals to the religiously devout.
Long civil War with your armies of agrarian peasants and devoted ideologues.
Guerilla warfare by small groups of soldiers with popular support. Radio & print propaganda.
Non-violent direct action only. Suffering imprisonment and death is preferable to striking back violently.
Non-violent action such as boycotts, marches and other passive resistance is preferred, but I will use violence when necessary.

How will you deal with those who oppose you after you gain power?

Massive public beheadings.
Send them to Canada.
Kill the King, then give religious rights and protections to everyone...except Catholics.
I won't become the governmental leader, but will continue fighting for the common people.
I will seek restorative justice, but not vengeful retaliation, despite having suffered years of oppression.
I will attempt to unite all factions peacefully.
Imprison or execute leading enemies of the revolution...then move on to liberate another country.
Banish military opponents to an island. Then purge opposing leaders, ideas and intellectuals in a brutal cultural revolution.
Execution or exile for the old regime. Internal dissidents are imprisoned or executed.
Source

Chances are you'll just end up being as corrupted and flawed as the regime you replace. History is full of examples.

Our little experiment with democracy is is just over 200 years old. It ain't perfect, but it is salvageable. I agree the lobbyists and PACS and special interest groups have a stranglehold on our political system. But the system works and a sea change can take place WITHOUT violence.

Be calm and resolute. Be proactive rather than reactive. Im afraid many here couldn't stomach the true sacrifice of the hostile actions they propose. (Talk of Revolution and Civil War.) Many would boo-hoo when Starbucks runs out of Skim Milk.

The pen is mightier than the sword and it is far better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

Originally posted by CrowServo
But Obama hasn't been in office for even a year, and the Republicans are trying to undermine every step he makes for any and no reason at all.

And thank you for proving the point, sheeple are so one sided that they are blinded...

Thats you by the way......

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Many lobbyist/corporations lobby both sides of the aisle.. goldman sachs for instance are the biggest donors to both parties.

reply to post by Nyteskye

Is there much hope? If there is, I don't see it. Term Limits? Campaign finance reform? Outlawing professional lobbyists? The fundamental problem with all these proposals is glaringly obvious. The only people with the power to enact term limits, reform campaign finance and ban lobbyists are the exact same people that are benefiting from the current status quo. How, in the name of god, does that situation ever get fixed? I honestly don't see how. The entire system has mutated to such a degree that the only 'way out' seems to be to start over. But that's the direction things are headed anyway, isn't it? Looks like it from here.

You're right. The one thing we need to change....ridding lobbyist and special interests out of our government...it's nearly impossible to do. Both sides want this...both left and right.

People just want their government to work again. They want to believe that the people who represent them actually REPRESENT them...not those filling up the campaign funds.

The power of corporate entities in this country is unfathomable.

So many seem to know that government is corrupt but don't know why.

The reason why is becoming more apparent everyday.

I think it's time we put away our ideologies and come to a common goal. What we believe in is meaningless until we make this change and rid the government of corruption.

One thing that I can say is that, the concept of "Damn the Country, Obama must fail" could and has been indicative of even when the Repubs were in power, and the Dem's followed the same reasoning, or more correctly the dem's that are in the lobbyist pocket.

I feel like it isn't just this admin where this mentality has taken hold. I fell like it has always been this way with each side. The reason why I come to this conclusion is because how often does legislation actually get passed that is in the people best interest?

I'm not that old, but I can't remember, that anything that has gotten passed that didn't benefit the corps in some way. I think with the economy like it is things have just gotten a little more heated and Obama just happens to be the one that got picked. So naturally this mentality is directed at him. If McCain won or anybody else it would be the same thing. That is my opinion at least.

Edit for clarity.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
That chaperone you were talking about.

He was a registered lobbyist assigned with leading us through the maze of the three buildings, and introducing our group to each Congressman/aid/whatever. The Internet trade group split all of us up and assigned experienced lobbyists to lead each group.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
But you mentioned that it was only Republican lobyists, how can you be sure those were all, or mostly Republican lobyists?

Well... I took their saying-so at face value. But the entire group contained a mix of lobbyists who had backgrounds on the staff of various Congressional offices of both flavors, including a few who started as lobbyists, but represented a full spectrum of ideology.

Political Trolling?

Bill... When you sober up, would you take these warnings off and give me back my points?

[edit on 8/12/2009 by Doc Velocity]

Sorry. Wrong thread.

[edit on 8/11/2009 by AshleyD]

reply to post by JayinAR


Oh no doubt. The way I feel about is just because I feel like things will regress back to the same, that we shouldn't try. That is a cop out.

I would be willing to give it a chance and hope for a better outcome. Your right thought emotionally we all need to be on the same page.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

It almost feels like I'm all out of anger and am just downright saddened. You 'know' lobbyists really have all the control, that the little people don't matter, political parties engage in political assassinations of their opponents, etc.

It's just surreal when you go from 'knowing' to knowing.

It's no secret I strongly dislike Obama but obscuring issues through dishonest tactics even at the detriment of the American people really frustrates me. I know both sides do it but to actually hear about an official confession from one side is very eye opening.

I have to echo the question others asked, 'What do we do? What can we do?'

This is my other question: What is the ultimate goal for all of this? It can't just be the general goal of 'power' or 'control' or 'money' if it's true 'everything stays the same, just the name plates change.' So what are they really trying to do?

[edit on 8/11/2009 by AshleyD]

Rats live underground. Sounds like your trip verified that.

But seriously, reading your insights made me ill. Just thinking about what you were told and then picturing those goons who clamor for a sound bite on the evening news just so they can give the appearance of working for us is despicable.

It's about time we made some ammendments to the Constitution.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Sorry if I missed this but I have not seen where anyone has asked a question which I feel is important...

In your opinion how do you see ATS bracing this 'storm' if it indeed continues on its current course?

reply to post by jkrog08


That is pretty much what I was asking too, only not just for ATS, but everyone that was invited to the gathering.

I have read this whole thread and not one person has asked what happened in the meetings? What di it actually accomplish for ATS and the others that were invited? Have you had any follow up from anyone from the meetings?

Did you follow up with a note to the Congressmen you met?


EDIT to say, I thought that I had already posted this , lol. Yes multi tabs can be a bit much.

Really now people; who's fault is this?

It is OUR fault; yours and mine...

As long as we continue to pull the lever for the NAME on the ballot, we will never get anywhere.. Look at Kennedy.... Completely useless and voted in every time.. There are hundreds of examples...

Lobbiests have power because they pull the strings of the politicians and convince them that if they don't support their cause, they will not be reelected.. It is up to us to show the politicians that they will not be reelected if they do not represent us.. Plain and simple...

The problem goes way further than any of you are looking at..

It started when being a politician became a profession...

Semper