Are moderators supposed to be neutral?

reply to post by rogerstigers


The collective mod theory works good in theory, but rarely in practice. Not to say that we don't have a good system here. We do, its just not as great as the mods try and make it out to be.

We don't alway ding one liners. If we feel it adds to the topic, and flow of same, we'll let it go. Though we encourage everyone to add a bit more than that to the topic...

It's the "I agree" or "you're an idiot" , and of course the off topic one liners that get our attention and action.

reply to post by mr-lizard

You asked :
Are moderators supposed to be neutral?

Let's look at it ...

What do we know ?

Moderators are human ( let's give them the benefit of the doubt here, ok ? Just bear with me ... )

That being the case, anybody who's done their best to participate in the discussions here at ATS will realize that anybody, mods included, would want to lock some of the posters here in their rooms and throw away the key ( or worse ! ) ...

Everybody ( who's human, that is ... *ahem* ) is entitled to have a 'bad day' from time to time.

reply to post by seagull


See even that practice is flawed.

I have had one liners that added to the topic called out and points deducted.

But I chalk that up to the moderator and I not really getting along in the past.


edit to add- I will be fair and say that I have had mods applaude a few of my posts that have been one liners. That just reafirms my belief it all depends on how well you get along with the mod in question.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by jd140]

reply to post by FredT


Well, I've got a great *Mods are people too* story but I'm just not willing to open up a can of worms.

Just know, they are human, and some rock and, some bottom.

I have had one liners that added to the topic called out and points deducted.

But I chalk that up to the moderator and I not really getting along in the past.

There ya go!

[edit on 12-8-2009 by silo13]

Originally posted by jd140
See even that practice is flawed.

I have had one liners that added to the topic called out and points deducted.

But I chalk that up to the moderator and I not really getting along in the past.

Maybe therein lies the issue? This isn't about moderator neutrality, this is about egos, misplaced pride, and losing control. The things I usually see removed here are the posts where people are being snide, rude, or arrogant without reason. It is endlessly amusing to me when I see people post things on a board that they would *never* say to someone in person. Then other people take the bait and start a flame war.

I have to guess that the standard explanation applies here. When people are responding to someone over the computer, they tend to frame that person under certain idealized characteristics. If someone said something you diasgree with, you might frame them as an evil agent of misinformation and respond in kind. If they say something you like or agree with, you might idealize them into a sort of mini-hero for your cause. This is normal knee-jerk behavior for humans. But that doesn't mean that we should follow our knee jerk responses.

I submit that by simply reading what you typed out before you hit the send button asking yourself "is this a professional and mature response?" might alleviate most of the conflict not just with moderators, but with the members of this site in general. Keep in mind what the purpose of the site is. This is not meant to be a playground for flame throwing; it is meant to be a place where people can rationally discuss topics deemed irrational by the rest of the world. I propose that the price of continued admission is some modicum of maturity in language and behavior.

I don't claim to be a model citizen here. I have fallen into the trap of a flame war once or twice here. I have read a post and found myself irrationally angry at the poster. And honestly, the thing that really gets me is people who post sarcasm followed by multiple emoticons. Still, I try to temper my temper (heh, the english language is great), with some self-control. If someone disgrees with me and wants to be an idiot about it, it's not my problem -- thus I try not to take the bait.

reply to post by rogerstigers



I never said they get deleted. They don't, I get a U2U that informs me that I think something like 20 or 200 points have been deducted.

I mentioned this because points that ARE ON TOPIC have had points deducted. If they aren't on topic or rude then they would be deleted and slapped with an off topic stamp.

Your long post had no bearing on my situation.

reply to post by jd140


Hmm. I see your point. I can't really speak to it, since it really is a case by case thing, but I can imagine you could always protest to the mods in general if you are especially sensative about the number of points you have.

As for my post, it wasn't necessarilly directed at you, it was just a convenient launching point for something I've been meaning to vent on for a while. I apologize if it came across as accusatory.

reply to post by jd140


A one line ding carries a 20 point deduction but does not delete the post. An off-topic deletes the post and replaces it with a graphic and has like a 200 point penalty (I think).

If a post is off-topic, it's subject to deletion. If a post is a one-liner that is on topic but adds nothing to the conversation, it's subject to a one-line post 20 point penalty.

I can say, "Nice post" or "You're wrong" and those would be on-topic, but subject to a 20 one-line point penalty because they add nothing to the conversation.

We don't go looking for one-line posts nor do we expect other members to alert on them. It's something we do in the course of moderating as a "reminder" to please add something substantive to the discussion.

No we don't catch them all. It's like an expired parking meter. Sometimes you skate and sometimes you get caught.

reply to post by rogerstigers



I don't really care about points, which is why I don't make a big deal about it or really even mention it. The one liner subject was brought up and I was just pointing out the flaw in the case by case judgement.

Originally posted by yeahright
No we don't catch them all. It's like an expired parking meter. Sometimes you skate and sometimes you get caught.

Fair enough how about this one....

I cant exactly remember the dates so for argument sake lets say Jan 1st.
on that date I wrote a reply on page 1 then also a follow up to it later on page 2 then a third on page 3. Two or three days later "I think" I logged on to ATS and receive a U2U with 3 MOD announcements. the first stating that my first post got a warning then my second post received a removal then the third stating that I ignored the first two warnings and received an official warning.

Am I the only one who has had this happen to them?


[edit on 12-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by yeahright



I understand the system of what is or isn't removed.


I also understand what was meant by a one liner that is considered a true one liner (not contributing). I'm not talking about a post that said "I agree" or "that sucks".

I'm not complaining about getting points deducted for my one liners. I was just showing that the explanation some are acceptable and some are not is a flawed system.

I could and have made a good point in 5 words (starred by several members) and either have it applauded or have points deducted. It is at the discreation of the mods and thats where I find favorbility comes into play.


Again, I'm not complaining, I am just showing a flaw.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Ouch. Yeah, guess that is an unforseen side effect of automatic moderation workflows, especially when the mods may not be on top of the thread for a day or two.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by yeahright
No we don't catch them all. It's like an expired parking meter. Sometimes you skate and sometimes you get caught.

Fair enough how about this one....

I cant exactly remember the dates so for argument sake lets say Jan 1st.
on that date I wrote a reply on page 1 then also a follow up to it later on page 2 then a third on page 3. Two or three days later I logged on to ATS and receive a U2U with 3 MOD announcements. the first stating that my first post got a warning then my second post received a removal then the third stating that I ignored the first two warnings and received an official warning.

Am I the only one who has had this happen to them?



[edit on 12-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

Sounds as if you had upset a mod.

Either that or the mod needs firing...................do they fire mods?

No dont get me wrong.

It was in the early days of my ATS existence. I chalk that up to my teething months of learning the T&C. But that did seem kind of harsh. anyhoo regardless the posts were probably either off topic or off color. Either way I got what I deserved on the first two but the third seemed out of whack.

I was once banned for a harmless post in a mason thread a few months ago. I contacted the mod and told him/her the facts leading up to my alleged heineous crime and the ban was immediately lifted. Is this a good thing? Well, NO! It shows that some mods hear the alarm caused by the alarm button being pressed and simply send out a warning or ban without checking the thread in question for what went on leading up to the offending post. . .

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

I don't really care about points,

Well I do. Points, Flags, applause...that's the currency we use here in ATS. It's how we buy status, recognition for a job well done and most important....NO ADs

My strategy to earn points is to start a thread with the words Palin, Children, Obama or Sex in the title. Guaranteed multiple hits=points.

That way you can build up a nest egg and post all the one liners you like.

It's sort of like cyber/forum monopoly money; get enought points and you can buy Godlike Wisdom. Now who in their right mind wouldnt want some of that???

So far I have bought a critical mind and some awareness. The awareness has come in very handy and I use the critical mind almost everyday.






[edit on 12-8-2009 by whaaa]

I've "tried" using the complaint button a few times and never have received a response so I gave up on that a long time ago. And if you do get a post deleted or something, and send an inquiry to a moderator who you know is online to ask a question, it is just ignored, at least that is what I have experienced. I don't even attempt to communicate with any of the "staff" at ats anymore.

In private discussions with other members we have discussed experiencing bias from moderators. I am convinced that members who have been here longer than others and have developed a friendship with the moderators definitely don't get scrutinized the same way many others do. I remember one member sending a u2u bragging to me that a moderator, his pal I am sure, applauded a very offensive post he had made in a controversial subject, proof imo of the bias.

I have seen several of these members quit visiting ats altogether, and it seems like more and more of them are doing so now.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Since I wasn't involved (was I?) I can't comment on a specific situation. There's always more to a situation than is readily apparent. I'll say this and I'll stand behind it - in my years as a member and member of staff I have never seen a situation where a member was treated unjustly. I have seen situations where there were misunderstandings and those were invariably rectified.

At the end of the day, the site is regulated in accordance with the T&C, period. No private agenda. We'll never catch everything. Everyone's best course of action is to follow the T&C. Pointing out where someone else got away with something is as irrelevant as arguing a speeding ticket by saying you weren't the only one.

If you feel you've been wronged, submit a complaint.

Yes, mods can be "fired" although that's a misleading term maybe, since we're all working for free anyway.

If you haven't taken the time to see the simplified T&C, I'd encourage it. There's a repetitive theme there.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

I don't really care about points,

Well I do. Points, Flags, applause...that's the currency we use here in ATS. It's how we buy status, recognition for a job well done and most important....NO ADs

My strategy to earn points is to start a thread with the words Palin, Children, Obama or Sex in the title. Guaranteed multiple hits=points.

That way you can build up a nest egg and post all the one liners you like.

That does seem to be a popular strategy. I usually call posters out for this so I can't practice it withoug being a hypocrite.

We are long over due for a I hate Rush thread. I think the last one made it up to 30 something pages. You should jump on that cash cow. I will throw a star and flag your way just for that humorus post.