The Robot Will Never Be As Smart As A Human

reply to post by novrod

You have to be more practical but I guess you're just too human to assume that. It's not the way you do it that defines the successful outcome, it necessary the robot could even drill a hole to reach the top of the mountain.

Thats just the thing. It is not I that is being unpractical. It is the argument well a robot can just accomplish anything any ole' way. A simple argument to this is the human body is designed to adapt to the earth and everything within our physical world on a case by case, situation by situation scenario.

So if the point were just to get to the top of the mountain or the wall (like in my example) then sure, a robot could be designed to do that job much better, no problem. Thats not my point. The android robot (which is what this thread is about) has to be able to serve tea to grandma without burning her, has to be able to converse intelligently with the neighbor about why its not cool for his dog to crap on the lawn and has to be able to match the intricate abilities ervery human is capable of...not just solely capable of completeing one task.

I think I have made that abundantly clear... besides the programming that is not even close to being completed for these things... the engineering is so far off a number of centuries couldnt be identifed until something might be feasable...

reply to post by jmotley

From the way I see it it's simply being selfaware. "I think therfore I am"

is a dolphin self aware? is a chimpanzee seld aware? It has been speculated... the day a robot can simulate and interact with these much more simple mammals is the day I might admit it is possible to accurately simulate a human...
until then, well...just doesnt look good for all those sci-fi nerds out there...no irobot anytime soon..thats for sure..

sorry folks!...

reply to post by open_eyeballs


1) Logic. Logic in my opinion has been programmed into us by thousands of years of evolution. Not evolution Darwin style. Evolution of human thought. Evolution of human progress. Logic is used on a daily basis to make the most difficult decisions for a would be "android robot" easy for a human being. Logic comes from your childhood experiences. Your education and even to a certain degree (in my opinion) your inner self (spirit or what not) are all forces that have shaped your reasoning and logic. Consciousness allows the human to know everything. Everything within his momentary world and even beyond for his own survival. From what time it is in the day or night, to his own capabilites in balance, to his resources, to the surroundings around him and the readily available sources of energy. Consciousness tells us we can be loved. It gives us guidance on how to love those that love us and places important distinctions on the relative tasks at hand. It can place priority for future tasks and helps us remember multiple relevant past experiences that can help us in those tasks.

A. This can be resolved by directly implanting human cells on a circuit board or a developing a biometric device that mimics the same cognitive functions of the human brain. These things are not as far off as you believe. Logic deductions and consciousness are all based on electrical pulses, or vibrations. Daystrom demonstrated this in the original Star Trek series with the M5 machine. Embedding human algorithms onto high grade circuits could produce the desired functions of a human brain.

2) Materials. With the current materials available to the scientists and robotic engineers they will never be able to build something competitive to the human. A human knows by instinct and logic what are its capacities right off the bat. We dont even need to see what it (anything) is to tell if we are able to lift it, or jump over it or move it. Our logical (reasonable) mind tells us immediately if it is possible, if it is easy, or if it will take extra effort.

A. This is also something that can be resolved. As the science of Nano technology increases the components to construct a fully mobile robot or android will probably exceed even our own bodies ability. Nano research is moving at an exponential rate. Nano machines have the ability to connect to each other to form a structure and can be rearranged on the fly to create another structure. This also answers your other concern of healing. A nano constructed robot would have the same ability to heal at a much faster and precise rate then we would ever have unless we genetically modified ourselves.

3) Balance. The most important ability each and everyone of us have. All be it some of us maintain a more precise capability. But this has maintained as one of the most difficult objectives current robotics have not been able to master. Balance is the precise instrument of logic and sensitivty through our self awareness. Because we are self aware, we know very well our locale at all times. What kind of balance each moment requires, and even if it is a good idea to go ahead and let balance lapse for a moment.

A. You can see evidence of awesome advances in robotic balance by looking at videos of Honda's robot Asimo. Those problems have been solved especially in this case when you watch the video. Our brains have a set of crystals that help us maintain balance and acts like a gyroscope to let us know up from down or left form right, ect. The space shuttle uses a gyro to make sure its always right side up when entering the atmosphere.

I can see how you would feel this way. But we are advancing at an incredible rate. Much faster then our spiritual development has been. So we may not se this on our lifetime or the next generations life time. But this will eventually come to past.

Sorry, The link seems to have some issues. Hope this one works.

www.youtube.com...

Here is another video showing even more advanced balance which makes it pretty clear in the future the robots will have a great advantage.


www.youtube.com...

reply to post by open_eyeballs


I can see one major problem here. Why bother making this thread if you no nothing of what's involved? All your logic is flawed and comes down to one simple thing, creating consciousness, creating a being that is aware of it's self and can think for it's self. As others have been telling you, all your arguments, can easily be overcome...humans are nothing but biologic "robots"...we are made of organic materials so that we have adaptable healing abilities, but I think a major point, is that mother nature gave us what worked best with what was available. 99% of the exotic artificial materials we use to build robots don't even occur naturally do they? So who's to say we can't replace the organic components with artificial components that do everything the organic ones do, and more. There is nothing "logically" stopping us from creating androids that look exactly like humans, but heal quicker, are faster, stronger, can make more reliable decisions in a lot less time, and could overcome any obstacle course you give them a lot faster than any human could. You say they will never be better at everything...give me a few key things you think they will never be better at then us at...you say they will never create true A.I. so it will never really be the "same"...The brain is merely an extremely complex computer. All the information required to make a clone of you and grow you from a child in an artificial womb is contained within every cell of your body, we just don't have the technology to do that yet. Although, the person that grew from that clone child would be totally different to you because of life experiences, like twins look the same but are different. There's nothing stopping us from creating robots that start with given hardware and software, then develop and learn new things through out their life. The clone child started from a bit of DNA information and was "compiled" into a working organic machine no different from any other human by using artificial means. It was the complexity of our brains that spawned our self awareness at some point throughout our evolution. I suspect some type of extremely complex quantum computations mixed with the other complexities of the human mind create that which gives us self-awareness, a soul etc. In the end my friend, it all comes down to logic, looking at reality for what it really is. Mother nature created the modern human from nothing merely by chance. There is no reason we cannot recreate an intelligent being that has consciousness and self awareness. The only thing separating them from us might be what they are made of, but even then, if we REALLY wanted, there is still nothing "logically" stopping us from recreating the human perfectly, by why would we study the human, and try to rebuilt it atom by atom, when the full schematic is in all of us, and as others have said, the human design has limitations.

EDIT: To recommend the "Ghost the Shell" movies...brilliant...there is a manga series and 3 anime movies. It's based in a future where most human thought has been accelerated by A.I. and external memory can be shared on a universal matrix. It does delve quite deep into the philosophical aspects of A.I.

[edit on 10/9/09 by CHA0S]

reply to post by badmedia


I agree, Humans wont be making the AI we see on movies.

However, we will be able to make computers smarter than us. And what happens when we have computers designing better computers instead of humans doing it? It will become a runaway process and then I bet we will see perfected AI

When you have enough computing power to model every particle in a human brain, in the next year or two you will have double the power.

Mechanical dexterity is a matter of control, power supply and sensors. Once the power supply is sorted your AI will have no problem adapting to control the android at least as well as a human if supplied with the correct amount and type of sensors.

Most current AI systems aren't programmed in the normal sense. The program simulates a number of neurons and their connections, the programming itself doesn't directly make decisions.

The question comes down to consciousness. What is it and can it be replicated? To me it is an executive that moderates and prioritises the impulses of the sub-conscious and supplies a connection to memory and reasoning to enable forward planning and greater success for the organism. I believe this is nothing special and implemented to a certain degree in most mammals.

I would expect at the current rate of progress that a human could mimicked within 50 years.


[edit on 18/11/2009 by LightFantastic]