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LHC hopes for collisions by Christmas

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posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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After the start up failure we might be able to regain hope on LHC.

Conspiracy or not this is how it goes...

From Nature News: www.nature.com...

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) should yield its first data by Christmas, smashing protons at energies high enough to begin pushing back the boundaries of particle physics. But the world's largest particle accelerator will only be operating at half the energy that it was originally designed for, and may not reach that peak until 2011 — if at all.

The new schedule was announced by CERN, Europe's particle-physics laboratory near Geneva, Switzerland, on 6 August. The 6.5-billion Swiss franc (US$6-billion) LHC has been offline for nearly a year, following an accident on 19 September 2008 just nine days after the facility circulated its first particle beams to worldwide fanfare. When a faulty connection burnt out between two of the superconducting magnets used to accelerate particles, 8.7 kilo-amps of current arced outwards in a massive short-circuit. The current ripped a hole in the pipe carrying liquid helium that surrounds the superconducting wire, spewing out soot and a blast of boiling helium, which damaged a total of 53 magnets.

During repairs this spring, a new set of problems related to faulty magnet connections was discovered. Although CERN officials believe they now have the problem in hand, they are being cautious in ramping up the beams' energies. In mid-November, protons will be injected into the 27-kilometre-long accelerator ring at low energies to show that two particle beams can circulate well in opposite directions. About four weeks later, the beams will be accelerated to about 3.5 teraelectronvolts (TeV) each, halfway to the LHC's maximum beam energy. Smashing these beams together will create showers of exotic particles, and experimenters will begin gathering the data they need to calibrate their instruments.

"We could have a Christmas present for the experimenters if we're lucky," says Steve Myers, head of CERN's accelerator department. If the initial collisions go well, Myers says, engineers will ramp up to energies between 4 and 5 TeV per beam sometime in 2010. The beams will then shut down in October or November 2010 for six months in order to make further repairs and install more helium-release safety valves, before attempting to reach higher beam energies in 2011.

Theorists say that LHC collisions with a total energy of 7 TeV should start to reveal previously unseen particles, although it might take a little longer than hoped to accumulate evidence for their existence.

The standard model of particle physics, describing the zoo of subatomic particles and the forces that control them, begins to break down at energies above 1 TeV. Experiments at higher energies could reveal a whole new menagerie of particles predicted by a popular successor to the standard model called supersymmetry. Also within reach are particles from a hypothesized form of dark matter, believed to make up a quarter of the mass of the Universe. Finally, one of the most sought-after targets is the Higgs boson, the only particle predicted by the standard model that has not yet been found. The elusive boson is a marker of the Higgs mechanism, which could explain how particles have mass.
Bad welds

The 2008 accident was caused by a faulty weld in a section of superconducting wire connecting two magnets. The subsequent months of inspections of the rest of the LHC found just four more bad welds in this type of connection — but also revealed a far more widespread problem.

The superconducting wires are surrounded by copper wires, which act as 'safety valves' to carry any sudden surge in current. The copper wire will only come into play if the superconducting wires warm up and lose their ability to conduct electricity without resistance.




posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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(cont.)

Tests over the past few weeks have revealed 80 bad welds between sections of copper wire, but with roughly 10,000 copper-wire welds scattered around the LHC, not all have been inspected. This element of uncertainty means that CERN must increase the operating energy of the machine cautiously to avoid further accidents.

The cost of repairs so far is 40 million Swiss francs. Myers acknowledges there was a quality-control problem with the welds, and that the systems for detecting current surges and mitigating a catastrophic release of helium could have been improved. "It's usually the simple things that cause you problems," he says.

Peter Limon, a physicist at Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Batavia, Illinois, says these birth pains are "typical". Limon points out that various problems meant that Fermilab's Tevatron — currently the world's highest-energy collider — took years to reach its maximum collision energy of 1.8 TeV. With a year or two of data collection needed for the LHC to make a definitive Higgs discovery, the Tevatron still has a chance at bagging it first. Tevatron physicists plan to present the latest update on their Higgs hunt on 18 August at the Lepton-Photon conference in Hamburg, Germany.

Gordon Kane, a theorist at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, says that the physics community is frustrated by delays at the LHC, but adds that an extra year is not so long to hold on for the Higgs particle, given that its existence was proposed in 1964. "I'm going to be there when it's discovered," says the 72-year-old Kane, "no matter how long it takes."



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by novrod
 

That's a clever time schedule that prevents any collision between Higgs boson and Santa's sled -- a collision that could put the collider out of action for good.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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Tee Hee Oh goody all the end of the World conspiracy threads are going to start flooding in to ATS again LOL



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 04:33 AM
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As a scientist I really don't care about ignorant fears.

I'm looking forward for a huge scientific outcome from this amazing piece of equipment.

Every time someone comes with a new idea it is considered either to be a complete nonsense or too dangerous.

Let's wait and see. I'm too close to the LHC to feel anything if something goes wrong.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 04:42 AM
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quik little story/info (true)

I've known this girl for like 3 or 4 years, strictly online. Anyway, about a month ago she tells me her dad is in switzerland and he's always gone blah blah. I'm like, "what does he do?" "If you say he works for cern I'm gonna piss myself." There was an awkward silence and she's like, "uhh yea why?" Of course I didn't believe her and called her bluff. Mind you I've know this girl for 3 or so yrs so I've seen her pics and know exactly what she looks like. All of a sudden she starts linkin me to her photobucket of her at the actual cern facility in geneva, switzerland with all the machinery in the background and what not. Turns out her father is a physics proffesor there and she claims he's one of the most important people there. Anyway to make a long story short I asked her a about a week ago to ask him when it will be turned on again. He recently got back like 2 days ago from the cern facility and she has yet to ask. Apparently she doesn't like her father too much and she mentioned it would be weird if she just all of a sudden sounded interested and started asking him questions about it. So she's tryin to ease it in somehow. I guess what I'm tryin to say is, lol, I have inside info. I'll let you know as soon as she lets me know. Cheers.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 07:20 AM
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It's nice to have some insiders point of view but as a scientist I can tell you I would never tell my daughter. Sometimes I cannot even trust myself.

By the way, I'm in Basel, 188 Kms (116 miles), from Geneva.

Anyway, what are the major fears about the LHC?

Nobody talks about the nasty weapons being tested everywhere and everyday.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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I don't know if it is the complete and total science nerd in me coming out but I would give my left leg to be there when they start pumping out data. I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. I wonder if they will post it anywhere.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by novrod
 


Wait until the nasty weapons are antimatter based.

My prediction is it will discover nothing new of course that will make them want to build a bigger one repeat cycle they should just make a money collider and smash the money directly.

Well either that or the creation of stable micro black holes, strangelets, vacuum bubbles and magnetic monopoles.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by novrod
 



Thank you for the information.


Personally, I have lost interest in the LHC after last year's almost-hilarious debacle.
And I don't mean the malfunction - although it seems slightly embarrassing to find no less than 80 (eighty?!) "bad" welds and, I am sure, other such prosaic sloppiness in a project of such magnitude.
No: what I mean is the ultimately ridiculous juggling of dates. I remember the original date being May 14th, and then... then they kept changing it, without really informing the public in a timely and reliable fashion. (The website they set up for the purpose was totally useless.)

And that would be fine - if it weren't for the fact that the media, starting with CNN and other purportedly "serious" outlets, went crazy with it, cackling about the "launch" as if it were the Second Coming. THAT's the situation that I found slightly objectionable and ultimately unworthy of my attention: I mean, if they don't want the public to know, then why (mis)inform the media?

So, as far as I am conCERNed.. I won't be conned by CERN anymore.





[edit on 12-8-2009 by Vanitas]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by novrod
 

You wouldn't tell your daughter when the machine is to be turned on? Why not? It's not like I'm askin her to find out if it's a doomsday machine or a stargate. Lol, I don't think the turn on date is a big deal..(as far as telling someone about it)..



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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Everything may be used as a weapon. Even oxygen or water can be used as weapons if you want.

Most of the times I do not talk about what I'm doing. Sometimes because things can go terribly wrong (not dangerous, just nasty) or because people may go mad about the possible outcome.

All the data will become public, however, private interests will come up and hide some important information as usual.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by novrod
Anyway, what are the major fears about the LHC?


That it'll create a black hole in the budget, sucking money into oblivion.
Well, at least, thats my major fear with it.


Or, you can look at it in a more positive manner, and say that it is a VERY expensive way to show that electric universe proponents are again one step closer to reality



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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I would like them to reach the conclusion we are just an alternative reality from another universe.

Anyway, if they could acknowledge that black matter is actually the most important component of the universe we could really see we have no idea of what the universe really is.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by novrod
As a scientist I really don't care about ignorant fears.


Of course you don't. As a run-of the-mill scientist you simply ignore the math that tells you the chance with 95% degree of certainty that an accident will take place within 6 month of LHC operation. This thing is too complex and the safety study had to be done. But was there any scientific anticipation of the accident that took place during the test operation of LHC?

There is a difference between scientists and trigger-happy charlatans, and I can assure you that the former case is a minority at LHC.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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For people who are afraid of this wonderful device being powered up I give you an important caution.

Don't try and sail too far out into the ocean or you might fall off the edge of the world.

Vas



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by novrod
As a scientist I really don't care about ignorant fears.

I'm looking forward for a huge scientific outcome from this amazing piece of equipment.


Yep, nothing to fear at the moment. If this thing would ever create a destructive run-away BH in the future, we'll know it. People would begin to feel pessimistic about life, etc, etc, thinking that something bad about to happen and have no idea what..

Besides, nothing in the Bible you will read of the Earth ever getting swallowed and totally crumbled. It will get only get incinerated by the red-giant phase of the Sun, after humanity is extinct, and get permanently thrown out of our galaxy in the 'Milkomeda' merger, nothing more.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by ahnggk


Yep, nothing to fear at the moment. If this thing would ever create a destructive run-away BH in the future, we'll know it.

The most reassuring thing is that the idea of Man being capable of creating a little tiny black hole that will grow in size to swallow the earth is a joke. Man comes from apes, and this sorrowful inheritance virtually prohibits such a scenario.

What are the chances that another accident will take place due to the engineering errors before any conclusion regarding the Higgs boson could be reached?



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by Vasilis Azoth
For people who are afraid of this wonderful device being powered up I give you an important caution.

Don't try and sail too far out into the ocean or you might fall off the edge of the world.

Vas


That's why "WE", the Portuguese, dared to go there. There was nothing but more sea and land to be "found".

This is why we always have to be ready to go for it !!!



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 04:46 AM
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I would rather the LHC destroy the world thank let the NWO have it's way!



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