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Iranian regime claims French foreign minister admits to interference!

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posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by john124
 


Funny, funny, funny! I saw how that British free speech works during the G-8 at the climate camp. Get all the free speakers in one spot first, wait patiently then hit women, and little old men with a phlanx attack of hard batons!


The british govt. does not support police brutality, the Iranian regime does!


You are free to speak on line wired to your machine on behalf of the corporate industrial complex.

Iranian dissidents, have you ever been to Iran recently? Or are your Iranian dissidents the same kind of concerned 'Americans' sitting in Tel Aviv pretending to be concerned Americans while they promote the bombing of innocent women and children in dispraportianate reprisals.


The Iranian dissidents cannot go back because this regime arrests anybody who goes back after openly criticising them. Contrary to what you may think, people have been travelling from Iran after the elections to stay abroad for a short while. Even the elderly were in protests whilst bullets were being fired into the crowd.

A large number of ordinary Iranian's have become dissidents because they had to flee from the regime, that's why places like London and LA are homes to many of those exiles and their offspring.


Do you even understand Iranian history or politics, or just acting out your fantasies of false moral superiority based off of political rhetoric you hear on line?


Yes I know both the history to understand the present including additional & credible real-life first hand accounts of present conditions within the country. It appears to be you who is basing your knowledge from online chit-chat with failed attempts to merge that with whatever past history you may actually understand. Unless you can provide a more enlightening post instead for a change?


Iranian dissidents! Laugh out loud, in the Western War Mongering Military Industrial and Intelligence Complexes...todays disident and freedom fighter, is tomorrows Taliban and El Queda when they fail to sign on the dotted line for Royal Dutch Shell or Exxon!


These dissidents are often just ordinary people, not freedom fighters, and don't have that kind of training. You can't just making a sweeping statement like that and expect me to take it seriously.


You are being manipulated, you live in a big brother police state that has every square inch of your country under constant video and audio surveilence and teaches you to rat each other out for a few dollars.

If you actually even knew what freedom was you would be fighting for your own first!p


Hahahahahahahahahaaa that's funny..... CCTV operates mostly in town/city centres and private property at the owner's accord, and there's isn't CCTV anywhere near where I live. Your paranoia echoes the Daily Express newspaper over here, you should order it online sometime, and you can nod your head in agreement at the absurdity of its commonly written headlines and claims.

You take for granted the freedoms such as freedom of speech, religion, clothes you wear, education & job (within reason, obviously recession a factor). Your equate the use of CCTV in Britain to Brutality in Iran such as being shot in the street is not only embarrassing to yourself, but is ludicrously amusing. You have drinking water, food available in the shops. Would you jeopardise those freedoms and neccessities to get your own back on the elite because they may watch drunks on camera pissing on street corners. If you lost your basic freedoms you would probably cry yourself to sleep!


This is a little sick game your government and the corporations teach you to play called "I am better than them" "I sure do have it good here in comparison"

It's like saying Thank Heavens I am on the Andrea Dorea and not the Titanic!

Funny, funny, funny, thanks!


Not one human being is better than any other, but his/her actions represent how others feel about them, and whether they deserve respect or not. This regime's actions are sub-human.

Yes it is much better over here in Britain than in Iran. The recession is worldwide and when the regime heavily taxes Iranian's and spends all their oil wealth on themselves rather than the people, then they have reason to be angry. This regime also spends money on arms and recruitment for proxy wars against Israel. And when unemployment is higher than you could imagine over there in Iran, then things are definitely much worse in all departments.

When protestors don't have a job to lose, then they don't have a lot to lose by protesting and standing up to oppression. Especially when they see dying for a cause as martyrdom.

I think Iranian's visiting my country who actually know their country much better than you do, can give me a better picture of life over there!

One again you would prefer to discuss other issues rather than the current plight of Iranian's from a real-world perspective, and instead you bicker from your unvalued narrow & mis-understanding views. You are showing signs of fear because I have challenged your misconceived views.


[edit on 13-8-2009 by john124]




posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by john124
 





The british govt. does not support police brutality, the Iranian regime does!


Silly me, because I could have sworn those heavily armed, dressed in full Riot Gear, phlanxed colums of police in the hundreds and hundreds beating women with their hands up in the air saying this is not a riot were British Police paid by the British Government?

Whose police were they? What government paid them? Why did the British government let them in there then if they weren't British police.

Pot meet the kettle, kettle meet the pot!

I know Iranian exile dissidents to they are all ex-SAVAK! Nice guys to talk politics and have dinner with, but none the less former members of the most brutally repressive intelligence agency to ever exist.

This is all a Pavlavi dog and pony show and you fell for it hook line and sinker.

Amazing you can make excuses for your own repressive government that terrorizes people night and day and beats its peaceful citizens like dogs on national TV just for speaking out against your Corporate and Government Masters in a peaceful gathering and protest.

You must be a very proud agent of the criminal regime you work for.

Laugh out loud, the British government doesn't support police brutality.

Too funny!

What do they call the Kool-Aide over there or is it in the fish and chips?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by john124
 





The british govt. does not support police brutality, the Iranian regime does!


Silly me, because I could have sworn those heavily armed, dressed in full Riot Gear, phlanxed colums of police in the hundreds and hundreds beating women with their hands up in the air saying this is not a riot were British Police paid by the British Government?

Whose police were they? What government paid them? Why did the British government let them in there then if they weren't British police.

Pot meet the kettle, kettle meet the pot!

I know Iranian exile dissidents to they are all ex-SAVAK! Nice guys to talk politics and have dinner with, but none the less former members of the most brutally repressive intelligence agency to ever exist.

This is all a Pavlavi dog and pony show and you fell for it hook line and sinker.

Amazing you can make excuses for your own repressive government that terrorizes people night and day and beats its peaceful citizens like dogs on national TV just for speaking out against your Corporate and Government Masters in a peaceful gathering and protest.

You must be a very proud agent of the criminal regime you work for.

Laugh out loud, the British government doesn't support police brutality.

Too funny!

What do they call the Kool-Aide over there or is it in the fish and chips?



The police officers who act out of line are responsible for their owns actions and can be prosecuted. In Iran the regime orders basij to beat protestors.

After all.... they are all human beings. Police officers anywhere can act out of line if they choose to, but they does not mean the government will always supports those actions. Do you not understand that simple concept?

The basij are also human-beings despite their sub-human actions, and they will tire of beating their own people. That will also signal further demise of the regime should its loyal troops have had enough of them as well. Those who decide to lay-down arms and join protestors may end up becoming part of the Iranian police force once a secular govt. is instated by the people, which behaves in a responsible manner. After all, there are still nazi soldiers alive today, as it's the leaders - generals and commanders who deserve to go to trial.

I never said the British govt. was perfect in any way at all. I know they have problems, but to relate it in any way to the Iranian regime is just stupid on your part.

You seem to want me to focus more on issues within the London police forces which are minor in comparison to regime brutality in Iran?!!!! And this thread's topic has nothing to do with British police.

Once again you fail to tackle the issue, and would rather make more clueless remarks that this time I'm sure you don't even accept to be true yourself.

You're just showing more signs that you don't have anything of substance to talk about, and would prefer to take cheap pot-shots at the British govt. because you look at the Iranian regime with a blindfold.

You're just digging yourself into a deeper hole everytime you post.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by john124]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by john124
 





The police officers who act out of line are responsible for their owns actions and can be prosecuted. In Iran the regime orders basij to beat protestors.


You are hysterical my friend...

See I guess the British Police weren't acting out of line...because they were all in a nice tight line phlanx formation, bashing and clubbing, kicking, and punching, women, and little old men and children and people begging for mercy telling them the truth that it wasn't a violent crowd and there was no need for the brutal violence that the police pepetrated upon them.

The Police were all in line though! In line in an organized violent attack against there own citizens.

How is the British man killed by the British Police brutality that was clearly ordered, clearly premeditated and not just a spontaneous reaction any different than who ever killed Nedda?

We can see on a clear video tape who killed the British man in London that day. A peaceful protester who was harming no one exercizing his 'supposed' right to free speech.

It was a British Police officer. Of course the MI6 officer who shot and killed poor Nedda in cold blood was more professional and careful not to get caught on tape unlike a lowly bobby.

Yep your police were all in line, in a battle line, they drew up and formed and stayed in, in mass with out one conciencous objector or defector as they marched lock step like Nazi goons clubbing there own peaceful citizens like the brutal sadistic thugs they are.

You keep telling yourself and the world fairy tales, I will keep speaking the truth.

Makes you want to hit me with your baton huh mr. policeman?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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When we agree with an body of people that run a country, we call it a government. When we don't agree, we call them a regime.


Can't imagine why a government that isn't even given the respect of being called what they are would have any anger at all towards the western countries who do just this. And to act shocked and appalled that people would doubt the "high standards" of the west and not accuse them of inciting trouble is ridiculous.

It wouldn't matter if the French foreign minister did admit to it, too many people are hell bent on hating a handful of countries whether it mixes with reality or not.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by niteboy82
 





It wouldn't matter if the French foreign minister did admit to it, too many people are hell bent on hating a handful of countries whether it mixes with reality or not.


That's the very sad thing. Most of our Western Democracies are falling into deeper and deeper states of totaltarianism and becoming more and more repressive towards their own citizens, all the while urging their citizens to hate some other country and to want to save those people from the very same things we really need to be thinking about saving ourselves from here in places like America.

Our rights are under attack with the Patriot Act, our privacy routinely invaded in the name of 'security' or activities more and more monitored, people with views that don't match the government's being slandered more and more as potential terrorists and lunatics and lumped together in the most extreme group they can be placed in and then that group vilified and slandered some more.

Why so many people are intent to foolishly believing the rest of the world needs urgently saved while our own societies are going to hell in a hand basket is beyond me.

What good are our values if we don't follow them in how we treat other people? What good are our values if we don't follow and enjoy them ourselves.

This climate of teaching everyone to hate something else but the things that are being done to them right here in their own homes is insane.

It gives the people something to vent their angers and frustrations and fears upon, but it's dibiliating and self destructive and only serves our government and corporate Masters.

Life in both Irag and Afghanistan is ten times worse for the people that live there than before we decided to 'save' them and give them corrupt corporate interest riddled 'democratic' regimes.

We really should all be focused on what's going on at home these days not abroad.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by niteboy82
When we agree with an body of people that run a country, we call it a government. When we don't agree, we call them a regime.


Can't imagine why a government that isn't even given the respect of being called what they are would have any anger at all towards the western countries who do just this. And to act shocked and appalled that people would doubt the "high standards" of the west and not accuse them of inciting trouble is ridiculous.

It wouldn't matter if the French foreign minister did admit to it, too many people are hell bent on hating a handful of countries whether it mixes with reality or not.





Excuse me, Iranian people hate this regime and they call it by that name. I think you are mistaking what we in the west may wish to do about Iran with how Iranian's feel about their country's leaders. Whatever name we call the government of Iran or the regime, the sentiment amongst Iranian's are that it is an illegal government.

Whatever name we give does not change its oppressive doctrine over the past 30 years. I know it's difficult to look at this from another point of view apart from your own, but you should look at a non-western viewpoint as well.

I am not shocked that people accuse western involvement, I am simply pointing out that for the current situation to arise it is not needed, and there is no evidence of involvement. I don't doubt motives are there for it either.

If you sit in front of your computer without meeting Iranian's who were there, then those assumptions may seem more plausible.

It does matter that the regime makes false allegations, because it demonstrates to the world how far the regime is willing to go to lie to its people to try and stay in power. Again you need to look at this from an Iranian's point of view.

Being a super moderator does not automatically put you in a position of superior knowledge.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by john124
 





The police officers who act out of line are responsible for their owns actions and can be prosecuted. In Iran the regime orders basij to beat protestors.


You are hysterical my friend...

See I guess the British Police weren't acting out of line...because they were all in a nice tight line phlanx formation, bashing and clubbing, kicking, and punching, women, and little old men and children and people begging for mercy telling them the truth that it wasn't a violent crowd and there was no need for the brutal violence that the police pepetrated upon them.

The Police were all in line though! In line in an organized violent attack against there own citizens.

How is the British man killed by the British Police brutality that was clearly ordered, clearly premeditated and not just a spontaneous reaction any different than who ever killed Nedda?

We can see on a clear video tape who killed the British man in London that day. A peaceful protester who was harming no one exercizing his 'supposed' right to free speech.

It was a British Police officer. Of course the MI6 officer who shot and killed poor Nedda in cold blood was more professional and careful not to get caught on tape unlike a lowly bobby.

Yep your police were all in line, in a battle line, they drew up and formed and stayed in, in mass with out one conciencous objector or defector as they marched lock step like Nazi goons clubbing there own peaceful citizens like the brutal sadistic thugs they are.

You keep telling yourself and the world fairy tales, I will keep speaking the truth.

Makes you want to hit me with your baton huh mr. policeman?



Actually the police officer was out of line. The situations are different and it's pointless trying to discuss it with somebody who cannot understand that.

One person died after being hit with a baton, and others were bruised. There is a review process into it.

In Iran a large number of people were shot in the chest, head, stabbed, people's windows were smashed, cars trashed etc. This was all sanctioned by the Iranian president, illegal president might I add. I don't have to worry about police coming round to smash the windows on my car if I protest on the street against the government.

I've been patient with you, but you obviously lack the intelligence and willingness to provide an intelligent conversation.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by john124]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by niteboy82
 





It wouldn't matter if the French foreign minister did admit to it, too many people are hell bent on hating a handful of countries whether it mixes with reality or not.


That's the very sad thing. Most of our Western Democracies are falling into deeper and deeper states of totaltarianism and becoming more and more repressive towards their own citizens, all the while urging their citizens to hate some other country and to want to save those people from the very same things we really need to be thinking about saving ourselves from here in places like America.


You're generalising people again incorrectly. You cannot say people do not care about problems in their own country because they are aware of problems elsewhere. I know I can think about more than one issue at the same time. I'm not asking you to go to Iran and save them, but you at least have the time to be aware of the situation.


Our rights are under attack with the Patriot Act, our privacy routinely invaded in the name of 'security' or activities more and more monitored, people with views that don't match the government's being slandered more and more as potential terrorists and lunatics and lumped together in the most extreme group they can be placed in and then that group vilified and slandered some more.

Why so many people are intent to foolishly believing the rest of the world needs urgently saved while our own societies are going to hell in a hand basket is beyond me.


What good are our values if we don't follow them in how we treat other people? What good are our values if we don't follow and enjoy them ourselves.


I know I follow good values that everybody should be treated the same with respect and dignity, providing they are not mass murderers. If I ignore an issue in another country that I'm widely aware of then it doesn't make me a very good human being, in fact it would be extremely selfish. As enlightened human beings we all have a responsibility to at least acknowledge actions that are wrong and illegal.


This climate of teaching everyone to hate something else but the things that are being done to them right here in their own homes is insane.


That may apply to more dumbed down people but not to everybody.


It gives the people something to vent their angers and frustrations and fears upon, but it's dibiliating and self destructive and only serves our government and corporate Masters.


Does it really?? If you are smart and you recognise what is actually going on because you have spoken to those involved, then you wouldn't want Israel to bomb Iran, therefore would that not frustrate your masters rather than benefit them? Being against your elites could contribute to a better future without war for oil etc.

If you only watch Fox news and base your opinion on wanting to help Iran by bombing them then that would be insane. The problem with using fear to ensure you and others ignore the issue altogether does not make it go away. By understanding it and explaining a better course of action to others, which can be achieved by discussing the situation with Iranian's, will actually enlighten people.


Life in both Irag and Afghanistan is ten times worse for the people that live there than before we decided to 'save' them and give them corrupt corporate interest riddled 'democratic' regimes.

We really should all be focused on what's going on at home these days not abroad.


Well that is disputable, and is down to military failures at the time and the present day. Because of previous failures does that mean we give up making ourselves aware of the plights within foreign countries, or do we use those mistakes to help us learn in the future.

By using fear to drive you further within and not be aware of outwardly, then you are in fact making another mistake, albeit a different one. Don't let fear drive your learning and decisions, let the knowledge accumulated drive your future decisions.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by john124]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by john124
 


Yes John I appreciate your patient efforts to brainwash me, and deflect from the facts that your own British government is more abusive and repressive than the murderous one in Iran.

Lets add up all the bodies the British have killed through violent action over the last 100 years and then add up all the ones the Iranians have over the last 100 years.

It's not even a contest.

Yes there is a review into it, laugh out loud.

If what happened at the G-8 had happened in Iran you would be calling for regime change.

Oh so one man died, and some people got bruises!

What a sad, sad pitiful excuse that you have so little empathy for your fellow country men that anyone had to die or anyone had to get bruised by an authoritarian police state while demonstrating peacefully.

Had it happened in Iran and Iran told you there was a review being conducted you would scream out the truth.

How long does it take you to watch a video tape.

How long does it take you to pull a government roster and see whose in command.

See that's what you don't get John, almost everything you are talking about regarding Iran is non-documented heresay and innuendo where videos that show people basically doing nothing are twisted into these fantastic stories of heroism and oppression.

BUT WHEN THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR OWN POLICE STATE STARES YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE

All you can do is cringe in denial and make up weak excuses like oh only one person died and some people got bruised.

If it's not a big deal when your own government terrorizes it's peaceful citizens, why is it a big deal when you imagine Iran is, WITH A WHOLE LOT LESS PROOF THAN YOU HAVE ON YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT DOING IT?

Like I said you sure are a funny guy.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by john124
 


Yes John I appreciate your patient efforts to brainwash me, and deflect from the facts that your own British government is more abusive and repressive than the murderous one in Iran.


You the one trying to do the brainwashing. If we are going back 100's of years then you are correct, but the current generation cannot be held responsible for previous generations to the same extent. Anyway you are wrong, the Iranian regime/government is vicious, despicable and tortures people for fun including rape.


Lets add up all the bodies the British have killed through violent action over the last 100 years and then add up all the ones the Iranians have over the last 100 years.


I am speaking of the Islamic's regime's actions over the past 30 years.


It's not even a contest.


Precisely.....



Yes there is a review into it, laugh out loud.

If what happened at the G-8 had happened in Iran you would be calling for regime change.


No I would not.... if the G8 had bullets flying everywhere I would be disgusted at the British government for allowing such actions to take place.


Oh so one man died, and some people got bruises!

What a sad, sad pitiful excuse that you have so little empathy for your fellow country men that anyone had to die or anyone had to get bruised by an authoritarian police state while demonstrating peacefully.


Who says I don't have empathy??? You??!! You like making silly assumptions don't you. Like I said previously I can protest peacefully outside the police station in my town without getting arrested. Large scale protests are unpredictable, and with hindsight those who don't wish to risk injury should understand what may happen inadvertently in unpredictable circumstances. I do not condone the police's actions at the G8, but simply pointing out the difficulty of policing large crowds. Are you so stupid that you have to be told this... I thought you would have given up by now after making this simple realisation.


Had it happened in Iran and Iran told you there was a review being conducted you would scream out the truth.


Repeating yourself.... what's wrong don't you have anything useful to add.

Baton usage against civilians is a common practice anyway in Tehran over the past 30 years, and in the 80's even against women just for not covering their faces.


See that's what you don't get John, almost everything you are talking about regarding Iran is non-documented heresay and innuendo where videos that show people basically doing nothing are twisted into these fantastic stories of heroism and oppression.


Actually I have first hand accounts of those there, who can also recognise parts of Tehran from the videos. In fact many videos show heroism and extreme oppression if you bother to watch them in between your Fox news that talks garbage about Obama's health care plans and silly silly Palin spreading mis-info.

Actually much of what I've said can also be confirmed by other reliable sources.

I cannot help a lazy person search for the truth, but I can at least tell you where you are going wrong.

Go and speak to some Iranian's, and see what they think.


BUT WHEN THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR OWN POLICE STATE STARES YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE


Oh dear you getting angry now and using caps
I don't think you understand what a police state would be like. Iran for weeks was essentially under martial law according to Mousavi's wife, and my contacts concur from their own experiences.

I can go out at night if I want and even stay out all night, and I won't get assaulted by the police providing I behave myself. I can even stand on my rooftop and shout what I wish without being shot by a copper.


All you can do is cringe in denial and make up weak excuses like oh only one person died and some people got bruised.


Oh really.... so you disagree with the facts then. You're the one who's cringing with your excessive caps lock usage. You're probably going red in the face at frustration because I have sense and don't accept your absurd views. Are you used to ATS members agreeing with you because many are government haters who watch Fox news and love the slogans that are all anti-Obama....


If it's not a big deal when your own government terrorizes it's peaceful citizens, why is it a big deal when you imagine Iran is, WITH A WHOLE LOT LESS PROOF THAN YOU HAVE ON YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT DOING IT?

Like I said you sure are a funny guy.


If you're referring to Muslims arrested under anti-terrorism laws then I have to conclude that they are acting on intelligence that may not always be correct. Don't you think it's a difficult job to decide who to arrest, and if they didn't and risked terrorist attacks, then that would be much worse.

And wasn't it the Bush administration torturing Muslims in gitmo, as far as I know there is nothing more than one or two people's word to say the british govt. was compliant in any torture.

I fail to see how you can equate my govt. to those of islamic mass murderers. And yes there is proof of the mass murders in iran, the proof is the dead bodies that show evidence of torture and rape that have been returned to family members after being detained. And the hospital records of the dead that have been documented.

Do you even realise that over the past 30 years there has been cases of people disappearing in iran who have spoken out against the regime, or for any tiny squabble that may seem insignificant to us. People just get abducted by this regime all of the time, and estimates of those murdered brutality may be as high as 1 million.

Can you provide figures as high as this for the British govt.?? I don't think so...

I would call you a funny guy, but you are not. You are just a numpty stuck in your own fantasies.


[edit on 13-8-2009 by john124]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by john124]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by john124
 


Fantasy would be too look at audio visual evidence of your own governments brutality to it's own citizens peacefully demonstrating in their own country being bludgeoned and savaged without provocation by scores and scores of heavily armed police officers in a coordinated assault and dismissing it as acceptable.

Fantasy would be imagining that the half a dozen to a dozen Iranians you might know that haven't lived in Iran since the Shah was in power which was a far more repressive and violent regime than the current one as representing all Iranians.

Fantasy would be overlooking the long track record of western governments trying to subvert domestic Iranian rule in order to steal the oil wealth of the nation.

Fantasy would be accepting as credible news sourceless reports lacking Who, What, Why, When and Where, but because it is inflamatory and suits your biased and ill informed agenda to pass it off not only as fact but as a means to be agressive towards another state.

Fantasy would be ignoring Britans colonial track record the bloodiest and deadliest scourge to ever hit the earth next to Christianity itself.

Fantasy would be pretending you live in a free society when every day another article appears about your omnipresent police state and your rapidly dissapearing rights.

Fantasy would be to pretend Britan ever becomes free again pretending your warantless and factless interludes in the complex politics of a society you don't even understand, speak the language of or have ever lived amongst.

But you keep fantasizing away there John old sport.

You keep pretending you understand while you watch your country slip deeper and deeper into moral decay and an absolute dictatorship absent any tangible rights while you pretend the Iranians have it worse than you to make you feel better so you can maybe get the good Queen mum to impose an even more vicious regime on them than they already have by giving them one similiar to your own.

I wouldn't want to live in Britan that's for sure.

I have more self respect and pride than to allow for that kind of governance and intrusion into my life.

I wouldn't want to live in Iran either.

You are trying to save Iran which you can't do.

I am trying to help you save you, which you seem unwilling and capable of doing, enjoy your slavery to the Crown.

I hope one day you know the joys of liberties and human rights my friend.

England is such a fascist state it can't stop at imposing it's will on each of it's citizens using deadly and brutal force if necessary it has to travel half way around the world to do it, coincidentally to a country that has oil. Coincidentally to a country that kicked the British out and tore up it's oil contracts with them because of it's greed and brutality.

Statist slaves, always willing to fight for their Masters or make excuses of for why they are beaten like dogs in public.

So sad...

That's why you are so funny!



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by john124Whatever name we give does not change its oppressive doctrine over the past 30 years. I know it's difficult to look at this from another point of view apart from your own, but you should look at a non-western viewpoint as well.


If you are referring to the changes that took place over time since the Iranian Revolution, that would put you almost 50 years, and that was instigated by the West due to their help in overthrowing the Shah.


I am not shocked that people accuse western involvement, I am simply pointing out that for the current situation to arise it is not needed, and there is no evidence of involvement. I don't doubt motives are there for it either.


I am a "Westerner" that simply believes that while we as Americans are allowed to live our lives (minus what limits are imposed) it is also the right of other citizens of other countries to live their lives as we sit fit without our interventions. There are motives there for it, I love my country and want to see it act better towards its neighbors.


If you sit in front of your computer without meeting Iranian's who were there, then those assumptions may seem more plausible.


I have 4 recent friends who are here from Iran taking classes. We talk about these issues very often.


It does matter that the regime makes false allegations, because it demonstrates to the world how far the regime is willing to go to lie to its people to try and stay in power. Again you need to look at this from an Iranian's point of view.


Or is it how far our government has gone to produce terrible consequences throughout the world which we are now responsible with facing by allowing them to occur. Whether by our ignorance (obviously) or not, it was done in our name with our silence.


Being a super moderator does not automatically put you in a position of superior knowledge.


I won't speak for the rest of the team, but if my "superior knowledge" was a prerequisite to be a super moderator, I wouldn't be one.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by john124
 


Fantasy would be too look at audio visual evidence of your own governments brutality to it's own citizens peacefully demonstrating in their own country being bludgeoned and savaged without provocation by scores and scores of heavily armed police officers in a coordinated assault and dismissing it as acceptable.


When did I dismiss it as acceptable?? Life isn't black and white as you make out it to be. I said the police officers were put in a difficult position, but I condemn their unnecessary overuse of violence. You learn by mistakes and this is no different.

The iranian regime learns how to be more brutal.


Fantasy would be imagining that the half a dozen to a dozen Iranians you might know that haven't lived in Iran since the Shah was in power which was a far more repressive and violent regime than the current one as representing all Iranians.


Hmmm some of them are much older than that. The Shah wasn't as brutal as this current regime, that's a fact. The Shah went into exile, I doubt this regime will leave so easily.


Fantasy would be overlooking the long track record of western governments trying to subvert domestic Iranian rule in order to steal the oil wealth of the nation.


Who's overlooking that?? Is anybody really overlooking that, because I am not.


Fantasy would be accepting as credible news sourceless reports lacking Who, What, Why, When and Where, but because it is inflamatory and suits your biased and ill informed agenda to pass it off not only as fact but as a means to be agressive towards another state.


Again I'm not accepting any such reports that lack credibility from either western media or Iranian media.


Fantasy would be ignoring Britans colonial track record the bloodiest and deadliest scourge to ever hit the earth next to Christianity itself.


Hmmm do we blame the young generation of germans for nazi atrocities, or do we accept what was in the past belongs in the past.

I know full well past atrocities of many different nations including Britain and the US.

Trying to associate that blame onto me personally and saying I'm hypocritical for criticising the Iranian regime a moot point.

After all I'm not promoting British media sources that attack the regime because of its lies. It's me personally making these remarks with links to a regime source.

Shall I blame you personally for the American soldiers raping and tortuing Iraqi prisoners, and call you a hypocrite should you criticise your govt. This silliness works both ways. You can grow up, or you can continue with a childlike mentality.


Fantasy would be pretending you live in a free society when every day another article appears about your omnipresent police state and your rapidly dissapearing rights.


Oh I'm pretending to like life in my great country am I. It's funny how American's know so little about Britain, especially when they base their opinions on tabloids, Fox news and the odd Tory nutjob.


Fantasy would be to pretend Britan ever becomes free again pretending your warantless and factless interludes in the complex politics of a society you don't even understand, speak the language of or have ever lived amongst.


Hmmm we are free in comparison to absolute police states such as Iran. Am I claiming I live in paradise where muggings and shootings didn't exist and that I can leave my house door unlocked? No, I'm not.


But you keep fantasizing away there John old sport.


You keep pretending I say or think things which I do not. So who's doing the fantasising?!

All just because I dare to criticise another govt. apart from my own on this particular day. Are you so arrogant as to think you know me well enough that I never criticise my own govt. at all?!!!


You keep pretending you understand while you watch your country slip deeper and deeper into moral decay and an absolute dictatorship absent any tangible rights while you pretend the Iranians have it worse than you to make you feel better so you can maybe get the good Queen mum to impose an even more vicious regime on them than they already have by giving them one similiar to your own.


The queen mum is dead, she had been for a long time.

The US tends to only base their opinion about Britain from London and Londoners. Do you know what it's like in the rest of England. You know - the nicer areas, and the countryside.

If you read sensationalized news stories and watch drunks on TV programmes and some of the crap BBC programmes that we tried to export, and assume everybody is like that, then you would think Britain was crap.

Similarly if we believe all American are avid fox news watchers and believe all the sensationalised nonsense that they report, then we would have an awful opinion about your country and its media.

If Britain's haven't visited the states, and based their opinion on all the cop car chasing shows that get exported, then many British would believe all of the US are gun-carrying criminals.

I'm not going to lecture you about your country, so for you to lecture me about my country and claim I'm hypocritical for pointing out Iranian regime lies and brutality, and that you are incorrect to blame current generations for the actions of previous generations in my country, then you really need to look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself what your intentions really are. Did you come here to pick a fight with an Englishman because you have deep resentment towards England, or do you have something to contribute?


I wouldn't want to live in Britan that's for sure.


Who's inviting you?! And you claim to be an expert in a country you've never visited where I've lived my entire life!

Have you spoken to an Englishman or woman who have lived here their whole life, like I have spoken to Iranian's who have lived in Iran for up to 80 years in some cases.


I have more self respect and pride than to allow for that kind of governance and intrusion into my life.

I wouldn't want to live in Iran either.


You have self-respect maybe to a level of vanity, but you show no respect at all for anybody else. Have you ever stopped to realise that there is more than you on this planet, and more than your desires or where you wouldn't want to live.

Don't patronise me sunshine. My country has been around for centuries longer than the US, and the NHS has existed for decades. The rise of the surveillance society in towns and cities is a recent innovation and not to be compared, contrased or confused with healthcare and other successes.

Stick to the point lest you sound like you don't know what you're talking about. It may be a bit late for that but theres always a chance you can redeem yourself.

I couldn't care less about where you would or wouldn't want to live, and your self-absorbed comments and mentality means nothing to anybody apart from yourself.


You are trying to save Iran which you can't do.


No I'm not, and at least I'm contributing to the world peacefully and helping people become aware of the realities within that country as best as I can.


I am trying to help you save you, which you seem unwilling and capable of doing, enjoy your slavery to the Crown.

I hope one day you know the joys of liberties and human rights my friend.


Very funny..... you should start with saving yourself if you could actually manage that at least!! That would be a start for you!!

Maybe the queen will also order our troops to invade Canada and the US to retake our land.
You don't seem to know how to behave yourselves like the distant cousin that couldn't keep out of trouble!

[edit on 14-8-2009 by john124]



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



England is such a fascist state it can't stop at imposing it's will on each of it's citizens using deadly and brutal force if necessary it has to travel half way around the world to do it, coincidentally to a country that has oil. Coincidentally to a country that kicked the British out and tore up it's oil contracts with them because of it's greed and brutality.


Very shallow indeed.... I guess you never won marks for eloquency in your limited educational studies. Is your life so pointless that you have to resort to shallow tactics towards ATS members to make you feel worthy? All because I want to criticise a brutal regime.... how sad indeed!

Don't you think countries learn from past mistakes, and that it's wrong to label everybody in that country responsible for previous generation's actions. The BBC rarely mentions Iran because they know they will get accused of hypocrisy from Britain's past crusades.

We don't have any power in Iran anymore, and why should we. Iran is for Iranian's, and the oil profits is for the all Iranian's, not just the few in the regime who heavily tax Iranian's in order to keep all the profits for themselves.


Statist slaves, always willing to fight for their Masters or make excuses of for why they are beaten like dogs in public.

So sad...

That's why you are so funny!


Again more shallow and untrue statements. I've always had respect for American's but in the past few days there has been numerous attacks towards Britain from both US media and ATS members. I thought we were living in the 21st century, but it seems some are still in a 19th century mindset!


[edit on 14-8-2009 by john124]



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