I've Lived with National Health Care All my Life, page 1

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Topic started on 11-8-2009 @ 08:06 AM by Gamma MO

From a Canadian, who thinks the Republicans and the Democrats are both corrupt and should be questioned on everything they do. You need a 3rd party in the States!

Anyway, I think Obama is scary but for other reasons besides Health Care. (His cap and trade agenda is the real culprit.)

Here in Canada most medical visits and procedures are covered. If I lose my job, I'm still covered and that is a blessing.

I have a family doctor who I can make an appointment whenever I want. We have emergency walk-in clinics for anything else. Specialists for non-life- threatening cases are a problem. Often people have to wait 3-5 months to see a Specialist. Not sure how to fix that as there is simply a shortage of Specialists.

Both my father and my father-in-law developed cancer over the past 5 years. Both received excellent care, surgerys, drug options, etc. After participating in a new program, my father's leukemia went into remission and he's doing great. My father-in-law was not so fortunate. After a number of surgeries the cancer continued to spread and he choose to die peacefully at home.

There is no fear of going bankrupt here if you get sick. In the States, doesn't the added stress of medical bills inhibit healing for the sick, especially if you are unable to work due to the illness? I would think so.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:24 AM by mblahnikluver

Agreed! I havent had insurance for almost two years and it really sucks. I go in and many doctors actually charge MORE because I am paying cash which is absurd! I had to go to the obgyn for my yearly and it cost me 250 bucks! It is only about 100 when you have insurance but I get penalized because I am paying cash? How can they get away with it. Forget it if I need medication, its too expensive. I was on some medicine(seroquel), one of the few times I took medicine, and it was 1200 bucks a MONTH after I lost my insurance. I obviously couldnt afford that so I stopped taking it. When I had insurance it was only 20 dollars. I looked online and found that in Canada I could get a three month supply for about 300 bucks but I needed a prescription from a doctor in Canada. I dont know how this country can charge insane amounts of money for things that should be affordable to EVERYONE. Its like only certain people are allowed to be healthy and screw the rest of us. I get stressed out everytime I need to go to a doctor because I know its going to cost a fortune and even then sometimes they wont see me cause I dont have insurance. Also the way they treat you if you dont have insurance here should get some of these doctors fired and their licenses taken away!

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:36 AM by Gamma MO

On the subject of prescription drugs. Our Canadian government sits down and negotiates the prices with the drug companies. There are some checks and balances there. Perhaps some of the greed is curtailed.

The US government, however, gives free reign to whatever the drug companies can get away with charging. Free market, capitalism and all that.

With patented drugs, however, where is the competition that accompanies free market economics? The drug companies have people at their complete mercy.

I suppose that's the differences in philosophy. Here in Canada we don't think sickness and disease should be a money-making opportunity.

Don't get me wrong....companies must make a profit to survive but some common sense must come into it.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:37 AM by I think Im normal

I am glad it works for you in Canada, but realize the bill trying to be passed here in the states does not reflect the National Health Care in place in Canada.

There is tons of pork barreling going on in the HR 3200 that if passed will strip the liberties of the people even further while giving the government power they should not have.

It is bad enough that they have gotten as far as they have today.

To my knowledge government was put in place to provide safety and protection, not to control the people or tell them what to do, but it seems that is all the government wants is to control, they want a country full of yes men.

Just take a look at the issues presented in these very forums. There is some very intelligent people on this site, I would not call them crazy for saying hold on wait a minute I call BS. instead I will look at what they are saying and do some research on my own. In most instances they are spot on.

A reform needs to be written with cut in dry wording, not wording that leaves room for contextual interpretation.

A bill needs to be written with what the bill is about and nothing more, stop pork barreling.

I have VA health care(a form of government health care) Oh I can go to the doctor, but its not like you have it where I can call my doctor up and be seen that day or even that week, try 6 months to 9 months down the road.

Yesterday I went to the ER for a severe ear infection, pain I would compare to a broken bone. The pain is still there today, but after I went to the ER they couldn't tell me anything and referred me to an ENT(ear, nose, throat) specialist, I got home and called to make an appointment, Ill be seen on the 26th of this month. my hearing in that ear will be gone by then.

So when this health care reform gets passed, do you think my chances of getting into the doctor will be any better? quicker? I would like to think yes, but thinking about it logically, your adding the rest of the country into the plan it will only lengthen the wait to be seen.

I am no expert on this subject, but when I read for myself what is in the bill, there are areas of that bill that scare the piss out of me.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:43 AM by kyred

Oh, yes. My wife has "insurance" through her job. About 2 years ago, her copay for a doctor visit was 15 dollars. Now it is 75 dollars. That's more than a days take home pay just to visit the doctor for 5 minutes to merely get a refill of her blood pressure medicine. And she must visit the doctor to get the refill prescription. We are one surgery away from being bankrupt and homeless. For me, I can get sick and need surgery and all will be well, because I am a disabled veteran and taken care of by the veterans system. But my wife does not enjoy this same situation. There does need to be healthcare reform in the U.S., IMO. I just don't know how is the best way to get this reform.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:44 AM by Gamma MO

reply to post by I think Im normal

I see your point. I haven't read the Bill myself so I'm certainly not defending it.

What I saw they did with the Bail outs was criminal. The Democrats spent billions on their Christmas wish list. I wouldn't be surprised at all that they're doing it again.

Is it a problem of all having universal health care...or is the distrust on HOW they're going to do it?

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:47 AM by tauristercus

reply to post by Gamma MO

Same here in Oz with our MediCare ... absolutely 1st rate medical service and essentially free of cost.
Sure, we can elect to take out monthly insurance if we so wish which will allow us our own choice of specialist and private room but many simply don't bother and are happy with what the government provides.

My mother as an example: 82 years old and elects not to take out health insurance.
A few weeks ago had severe pain in her abdominal region so I took her into Emergency at the local hospital. They ran a number of blood tests and scans and diagnosed gall stones ... very painful but not life threatening.
Anyway, elective surgery was scheduled for 3 weeks later ... in she goes ... out comes her gall bladder ... 2 day stay in hospital and released.

Total cost to her: $0

I shudder to think what the same scenario would have cost an uninsured patient in the US

The US could certainly learn a thing or two from countries such as Canada, Australia and the UK regarding medical care for it's citizens !

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:49 AM by I think Im normal

reply to post by Gamma MO

I think it is the distrust and the things they are trying to sneak under the radar.

It would be great for everyone to be covered, but at what cost? the cost of not being able to say whats best for my kid? not being able to choose my own doctor? having to give access of my financial institutes and records? Allowing the government to tell me how to raise my kid? A government telling me its ok to die and we will support you if you choose to just go now?

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 08:58 AM by Gamma MO

Originally posted by I think Im normal
reply to post by Gamma MO

I think it is the distrust and the things they are trying to sneak under the radar.

It would be great for everyone to be covered, but at what cost? the cost of not being able to say whats best for my kid? not being able to choose my own doctor? having to give access of my financial institutes and records? Allowing the government to tell me how to raise my kid? A government telling me its ok to die and we will support you if you choose to just go now?

I understand the distrust totally and I hear what you said about it not being modelled like the Canadian Plan. All I can speak to is my own experience.

I have always had complete control over my child's health care. I choose my own doctor and can switch at any time. No one has access to my financial records, espcially the government! Why would they? There are no bills to pay. I have a health card that states I live in Ontario and are therefore entitled to free health care. End of transaction.

The government has never told me how to raise my child. If they did, they wouldn't know what hit them!

My government doesn't have any say on whether it's OK to die and euthanasia is completely illegal. I don't understand that fear. Doctors still have full control of patient care. They do what they do and bill the government afterwards.

I've lived 50 years in Canada and I can honestly tell you I have NEVER heard of anyone dying because of universial health care. I've heard of stories of incompetent doctors and mean nurses but you're going to get that anywhere.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 09:01 AM by Hazelnut

Never mind

2nd line.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Hazelnut]

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 09:34 AM by tauristercus

reply to post by Gamma MO

That's almost word for word how I'd describe the Health Care system in operation here in Oz.
Sure, you'll always finve those individuals who find fault with almost everything but on the whole it's a system I'd rather have anytime in preference to the fiasco of a system I see operating in the US.

reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:35 PM by Credge

reply to post by Gamma MO

Both.

The most important factor you have to consider here is that the U.S. is not like Canada. It isn't like any other country on the planet. We have one of the most diverse group of people on the planet, all from different backgrounds, different levels of pay, etc.

Most European countries have people that are very similar in both background and pay level (Canada is like that as well, as is China, Korea, Japan, Australia, etc). Generally speaking, if I have a blood pressure problem and I live in Poland and my family has always lived in Poland then it's much easier, and cheaper, to figure out what my problem is ~ genetic, dietary, or other.

Here in the States, it becomes much harder to figure out the cause of the problem because I could come from any place on the globe. While that's still a possibility in any other place, the people in the United States generally have completely different backgrounds from each other. For example, I'm Irish, Scottish, Dutch, and English but I live in the U.S. I can walk down the road and not meet anyone else that is like that.

What pay class you are has an impact as well. Generally speaking, the poorer you are, the worse the food you eat is for you. If I lived in Poland I'd probably be middle class like most everyone else. This makes it easier for doctors to figure out if it is dietary or not.

Here in the U.S. I have a fairly equal chance of being poor, rich, or middle class. The result is that I can eat better or worse food, which may be the cause of my high blood pressure.

So, while social health care can work when you have a small country (population) with a people that are very much like each other, it becomes troublesome when you add more people who are much more diverse.

Mainly, the problem is diversity. We have many different types of people. Most countries have one type of person. For example, when I say "That person looked Irish" you understand exactly what I'm talking about. When I say "That person looked American" the only thing you get from that is fat, but that doesn't tell you anything about hair color, skin color, eye color, height, body type, etc.

Edit: I thought this was pretty interesting.

Originally posted by Gamma MO I've heard of stories of incompetent doctors and mean nurses but you're going to get that anywhere.

While this is very true, it's also a bit different here in the U.S.

See, we don't have limits on how much I can sue a doctor for if he messes up. This is primarily the reason for incredibly high health care costs in the U.S. The other half is the fact that they have to continually update the tools they use, which are generally not as effective, or cost effective. The reason they have to do it is because it gives people another reason to sue if the care they receive doesn't work out like they dreamed.

If, and this is important, the government begins to pay doctors, the doctor won't be held responsible for any blunders, the government will.

The only thing that needs reform in health care in the U.S. is tort reform. Anything else is too much.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by Credge]

reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 11:33 PM by SevenThunders

reply to post by tauristercus

Oh you can get supplemental insurance in Australia? That's nice because it will be outlawed in the US. Essentially they made the burden so heavy for private insurance and will subsidize the crappy state insurance that insurance will cease to exist in the US very shortly. That is essentially what happened with medicare.

Do you have to report all of your banking numbers to the state to get insurance in Australia? Are all doctors and specialists forced to work at the same low salary? (This is a move that will make specialists very scarce here.) Are you forced to receive death counseling every 5 years or to receive abortion advice if you are having too many babies? Will your hospitals not be allowed to expand services? Is there a goon squad that will come to your house to make sure you take a vaccine made from aborted fetuses and monkey dna? Are you doctors arrested, fined and forced out of practice if they treat paying customers first?

That's just the tip of the iceberg on this communist, eugenics nazi health care plan formulated by our supreme leader.

reply posted on 14-8-2009 @ 02:31 PM by Gamma MO

reply to post by Credge

Sorry, Credge. I have to totally disagree with you. Have you been to Canada, Australia or the UK lately? Toronto is the most diverse city in the world. What has that got to do with anything?

What does socio-economic levels have to do with getting proper medical care for your child if he's sick? Sorry, I just dont get what point you're trying to make.

How do you figure you'll have to go after the government if your doctor screws up? Do you now sue your HMO if your doctor is incompetent?

Seven Thunders:
Have you taken your medication today?

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