Chuck Norris: Dirty secret No. 1 in Obamacare = Home visits

When I want some awesome '80s action and adventure I turn to Chuck Norris. When I want some cheesy '90s TV action I turn to Chuck Norris.
When I want to see what's in a bill I read said bill and come to my own conclusions. What I don't do is turn to Chuck Norris to interpret that bill for me, and then spread his interpretation as fact.

You guys are so busy debating about all of the terrible people that don't deserve children that you are forgetting rule #1: It won't be THEIR homes that the government goes into -- it will be ours.

By ours, I mean the law abiding ones that honestly do as best for our children as we can. It's those of us that get targeted. Why? Because we are availale and are responsible and have paper trails that lead right to us.

The people that the government should watch, are ironically the ones they can never find. They tend not to have bank accounts, at least not up to date ones, go from job to job (assuming they've ever had one), purchase illegal guns, and have no problem using their parents, cousins, friends, addresses whenever they are required to provide one.

So the problem with paragraphs within this bill such as this one is that once again, the people that they should be concerned with will still be running around playing the same games they play now and those us that just want to live life like we're supposed to -- it'll be our doorbells ringing.

Personally,I dont want any Government involved in telling me how to raise,or educate my children.Its already sad that my kids come home with state funded mind-control,and im spending half the time reteaching them that what they are being taught is far from the truth.I have been through the court system,the CPS all over my house,and idiot Guardian ad litem's who only cared about when they were going to get paid.Single Father who at one time payed 3/4 of his money to a mother,and the government just to see his kids suffer.When abuse runs rampant,and there are no checks or balances,the only failure is where the Rules apply.Broken rules with a broken court system,greed at the end of the rabbit hole sucking it all dry.When all you are is a number or statistic.I understand that some parents dont know how to raise their kids,but i came from a bad neighborhood where all my friends are either serving time,or are dead.Luckily I didnt run with the bad crowed,was given good morals and principles from my parents.Never once spent a night in jail,or had my fingerprints taken.Parents need to stop and open their eyes,sterilization is not needed.So as I see it,This health care reform is just another fancy way of saying I want more of your money,and by the way, I want your children s money,and your grand parents money too.BIG GOVERNMENT GETS

Originally posted by warrenb

Dirty secret No. 1 in Obamacare is about the government's coming into homes and usurping parental rights over child care and development.

It's outlined in sections 440 and 1904 of the House bill (Page 838), under the heading "home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children." The programs (provided via grants to states) would educate parents on child behavior and parenting skills.

The bill says that the government agents, "well-trained and competent staff," would "provide parents with knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains ... modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices," and "skills to interact with their child to enhance age-appropriate development."

Are you kidding me?! With whose parental principles and values? Their own? Certain experts'? From what field and theory of childhood development? As if there are one-size-fits-all parenting techniques! Do we really believe they would contextualize and personalize every form of parenting in their education, or would they merely universally indoctrinate with their own?

Are we to assume the state's mediators would understand every parent's social or religious core values on parenting? Or would they teach some secular-progressive and religiously neutered version of parental values and wisdom? And if they were to consult and coach those who expect babies, would they ever decide circumstances to be not beneficial for the children and encourage abortions?

One government rebuttal is that this program would be "voluntary." Is that right? Does that imply that this agency would just sit back passively until some parent needing parenting skills said, "I don't think I'll call my parents, priest or friends or read a plethora of books, but I'll go down to the local government offices"? To the contrary, the bill points to specific targeted groups and problems, on Page 840: The state "shall identify and prioritize serving communities that are in high need of such services, especially communities with a high proportion of low-income families."

Are we further to conclude by those words that low-income families know less about parenting? Are middle- and upper-class parents really better parents? Less neglectful of their children? Less needful of parental help and training? Is this "prioritized" training not a biased, discriminatory and even prejudicial stereotype and generalization that has no place in federal government, law or practice?

Bottom line: Is all this what you want or expect in a universal health care bill being rushed through Congress? Do you want government agents coming into your home and telling you how to parent your children? When did government health care turn into government child care?

townhall.com...

Another dirty little gem in the health bill, home visits that usurp parental rights.
Wow, will the surprises ever end?

Do you see why it is important to read all legislation before passing it into law?

Chuck Norris hit it on the head, this is bad very bad.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by warrenb]

[edit on 11-8-2009 by mrsoul2009]

[edit on 11-8-2009 by mrsoul2009]

reply to post by Jesus H Christ

Odds are you would be one of those up for forced sterilization.

Originally posted by jeffsmathers
This program is voluntary .... Just as the paying taxes is voluntary

A big shiny star and just to add to the list:

Just like the Minimum Drinking Age being raised to 21 was voluntary...
Just like the Speed Limit Laws were voluntary (both down to 55 and back up)...
Just like Child Seat Laws were voluntary...
Just like DUI Laws were voluntary (both .1 and now .08 or lower)...
Seat Belt Laws and enforcement...
....
....
....

I could go on, but all those "voluntary" laws from the Federal Government to the States were "voluntary" only in the sense that if the State wanted to collect their share of fundings back from the Federal Government they had to enact those laws. It was entirely up to the State to enact them, but in reality it is about as voluntary as the secretary that has to perform oral sex on her boss in order for him to sign her paycheck.

What makes anyone think that this voluntary provision will be any different?



[edit on 11-8-2009 by Ahabstar]

I'm not a big fan of Obama, but to be honest this may be needed. I teach school and see countless children who's parents are destroying their physical, emotional, and mental development. From what I understand, this healthcare program will focus on the low income, welfare, etc groups who already recieve public assistance. These groups need intervention to break the cycle that goes from offspring to offspring. Children have no coping skills or concept of self control. A lot of families need help like this. It is up to us to make sure that this is as far as it goes and doesn't turn into a "Big Brother Watching" type deal. We worry about too many what if's and people suffer because of it.

Originally posted by NoArmsJames
When I want some awesome '80s action and adventure I turn to Chuck Norris. When I want some cheesy '90s TV action I turn to Chuck Norris.
When I want to see what's in a bill I read said bill and come to my own conclusions. What I don't do is turn to Chuck Norris to interpret that bill for me, and then spread his interpretation as fact.

Awww, don't hate Chuck Norris, he can't help it if he's beautiful....

Seriously though, he's just the messenger and unlike other Hollywood types I applaud him for standing up for the family unit.

warrenb I'm sorry but you're way off base here - as is Chuck Norris who has proven in the past to be an expert in nothing more complicated than being an action hero. The misinformation and paranoia about this topic truly blows me away. I've been a reader of ATS for some time now and never felt the need to respond before now. Let me explain -

My wife has been teaching parenting education and child development for over 25 years. Believe it or not just as in many other subjects there are research-based techniques in parenting that truly work and make a difference in people's lives. This is not about barging into someone's home and telling them what to do. That is absolutely ridiculous. All of my wife's classes are made up of people who WANT TO BE THERE AND LEARN. Home visits take place when the women (yes its usually always women who want to know more about their children) can't travel or get to the classes on their own or are working odd hours. Home visits are provided already folks, most of the time by your local county health department - yes that's right- the big bad government. Yes you're correct about income - there are no income restrictions on bad parenting - just different kinds of bad parenting. Like it or not we are not born with either a license nor the inherent skills to raise a child. Some people need help and in doing so it helps all of us down the road. All you have to do is read the paper or watch TV to see that everyday.
Parent education is a growing field and an important skill. More people should understand that most of a person's success in life is determined during their first 6 years. Intervention during the early years of a child's life can deter huge problems later on and save you millions if not billions of tax dollars down the road. Isn't it time we paid attention to this? Talk about "sheeple" And yes my wife does work for the "government" - in our town its called Cooperative Extension - they also serve farmers and sponsor 4H...

reply to post by Jesus H Christ


But this isn't it. Your rhetoric reminds me of this:

I am reminded of a statement made 60 years ago by Paul Henri-Spaak (1899-1972), the former Prime Minister of Belgium, the first Chairman of the General Assembly of the United Nations (1945), and one
of the key founders of the movement toward European unity. He said: “We
do not want another committee. We have too many already. What we want
is a man of sufficient stature to hold the allegiance of all people, and to lift us out of the economic morass in which we are sinking. Send us such a man and, be he God or the devil, we will receive him.

Now, I'm not trying to throw religion into this. But, what I see with Obama is astounding. We have people like yourself who say that soemthing must be done and since Obama is doing something, then so be it.

WRONG!!!!!!!

You MUST open your eyes and see the deception that is being forced upon you. Do you really want government agents coming into your home and telling its citizens how to raise its children! Do you not see how SOCIALISTIC this is!

What do you people want?! Are you willing to trade in your freedoms and democracy for "free" health care and socialism. Can you not see how wrong this is.

Certainly, the system is screwed up. I think any rational person would see this. But this is not the answer. We even have Obama telling a crowd that you won't have to wait in line with his plan. Like he knows this for sure. He knows it so well that he didn't even know what was in the legislation.

Those of you who are supporting Obama and this administration are on a sinking ship. There are those of us, regardless of political affiliations, whom are trying to stop the flooding and get us back to shore.

Jesus H. Christ - all I can say is Jesus H. Christ you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I know this is a conspiracy website but this kind of nonsense is really so far away from the truth it sounds more like Schizophrenia than conspiracy. If the point of this website is to truly find out the truth then I suppose many readers here are wasting their time.

Have you not watched TV or red the paper lately? Have you not seen over and over again where children are neglected. abused and worse? One thing you've alluded to is true - the world today is not the same as it was - not even nearly the same it was when we were kids - that's why its much more challenging than ever before to raise healthy kids. People can use all the help they can get.

There is a definite problem here being addressed. Parenting has gone down the drain in recent generations and its not isolated to one group, its across the board. There are more dead beat dads today (among all races) than ever before and the divorce rate is around 50% (probably over). It seems the worst parents are having the most children. We have two options:

1. As a society, quit being so materialistic and selfish to the point where inanimate objects are more important than the life of another. The fact that we even have a child support system shows how bad we've dropped the ball. Everyday there's people on TV getting public paternity tests for the entertainment of the masses. They actually celebrate when they are not the father because it means they'll be able to keep their green paper for themselves.

Other than that, its glorifying affairs and rampant irresponsibility. Having grown up seeing this, its no wonder my generation is the most disfunctional yet that views marriage and being a parent as a game instead of a responsibility. Ever hear the term "Baby's Mama/Daddy"? Good trend to set for those growing up.

2. Accept the fact that pop culture has dug far too big a hole for any large scale functionality to come out of society and let the government fix it. Whats better: having a kid watch an alcoholic beat him up his whole childhood and end up being a drugged out waste (continuing the chain) or having the government come in and make sure your child actually learns something in their lifetime aside from where to get drugs? I don't want to hear any complaining because it should have never came to this point but it has. If this leads to government "indoctrination" of a generations belief system, again it should of never came to that point to begin with.

Last year was a new baby boom as it set a record for most births of children on american soil in history. 60% of the births in the teen demographic were out of wed lock. Tell me honestly and somehow present to me a legitimate scenario in which that does not result in total disaster in 15 years. The welfare system is taking a bigger hit year after year yet everyone just brushes it off "Thats just the way it is I guess".

Whether the government running a child's developement will result in disaster remains to be seen. What has been proven, is that american parents and their "freedom" to mess up their child for life isn't working. I wish this was already instituted when I was born. I'll say with confidence that the social structure would be far greater today. Freedom without any common sense on how to use it responsibly equates to being a slave to stupidity. Everyone whines when their freedom to permanently damage their body is taken away yet an attack on free speech is ok if you disagree with their point. Is it 2012 yet?

Another great find WarrenB, Star and Flag!

One thing is for sure, there aren't many people alive who are going to tell Chuck Norris he is a right wing lunatic and fear mongerer...

At least not to his face!

Any government personage showing up in my home to tell me how I should raise my future family will be calmly beaten and escorted out of My Home.

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
I am almost of the mindset that you should have to get a licence before having a child. Why not? You have to have one for every other damned thing in this country.

I do not know what is worse, such an ignorant post, or how many stars it has meaning there are people agreeing with you.

What do you have against hill billies anyway. I just have never read anything so insulting, honestly.

Isn't the fact that Chuck Norris is speaking, evidence of buffoonery afoot?

Chuck Norris barely has a high school education and believes the world is 6000 years old. There are high school students today, more qualified to speak on health care than Chuck Norris

If you want to argue against health care in America, fine, but... Chuck Norris? Really?

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
Society! As a whole we all colectively set the paramiters for what we will consider "the norm". "Good" "Bad" "Evil" etc.

I will tell you what I see. I see a larger percentage of children who come from a well mannered household with more money than they should ever be allowed to have at a young age, from parents who are "intelligent" and "well bread" accomplish by in large very little.

And what I see as children accomplishing things and who are the movers and shakers are the poor children with nothing who have the polarity of that they do not want, versus what they want, and they work for it.

Where the system breaks down, is that poor people in need are not given the basic support in many areas, and forced to live herded into poor neighbourhood and then the children are type cast, by judgmental people like you.

Originally posted by rcwj75
Hell these days people CAN'T afford to keep themselves fed, clothed, or healthy, yet they will have kids KNOWING our government will hand them anything they need.

What the heck are you talking about. Have you ever gone to these peoples houses, honestly. The poor have it tough, given enough to subsist but not enough to truly make a come back and get back on track.

I sincerely hope your next life is as a single mom trying to get off the system. In fact, I think there is a good chance you will. At least you support abortion, and freedom of choice, so that is one redeeming factor.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by SoulOrb]

On page 838 line 15 and 16, it clearly states that the visitation program is VOLUNTARY. A waste of a topic and 4 pages of comments. Chuck and the rest of you should consider actually reading the bill beyond one page. I am against the bill in whole, but lets at least be intelligent about it.

reply to post by Freenrgy2


very well said
That was a hole in one