It really is time for Democrats to be honest with themselves.

(1) The House and Senate both have Democratic Majorities.
(2) The President is a Democrat.
(3) The President said he wanted a Health Care Bill passed before August.

(a) There is no Health Care Bill but THREE (3) different House versions and TWO (2) different Senate Versions, all FIVE (5) in FIVE (5) different committees.

Now since there are:

(b) Not enough Republican Votes to keep a Health Care Bill ANY Health Care Bill from passing if ALL THE DEMOCRATS are in favor of it GUESS WHAT?

IT SURE CAN'T BE THE REPUBLICANS HOLDING THE THING UP!

Wake up people.

The only thing, I repeat the ONLY thing that prevented there being a finished and complete version of a Health Care by August WAS THE DEMOCRATS...

Because...

There are not enough REPUBLICANS to STOP them!

Hello calling earth, hello earth?

For crying out loud people you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Now in case any of you Democrats actually believe that if the DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED CONGRESS AND SENATE actually STICK TO THEIR DEMOCRATIC VALUES that they can't pass what ever they want because of REPUBLICANS...Repeat THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH REPUBLICANS TO STOP THEM.

The only party that can defeat a Democratic Controlled Congress, Senate and White House, Health's Bill is the DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

Duh!

Come on people what's it going to take to convince you THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT is well as DUMB as WE ALL MUST BE if we really believe the republicans can stop the Health Bill.

It's a Dog and Pony Show, that's all.

It's your Bread and Circuses in a piss poor economy!

Please wake up, you are starting to cause me nightmares at night!

When you stop to consider what I posted above which really is the truth of the matter, there really is no reason for all the political baiting, and sniping, and the anger that’s spilling over into some isolated incidents of violence.

No amount of corporate protestors, no amount of republican protesters, no amount of independent protesters can prevent a democratically controlled House, Senate and White House from passing a Health Care Bill if it wants to.

There is absolutely no reason for the left to take such exception and see such a threat in what is basically different segments of America voicing there opinions.

Like it or not under Federal Law corporations are considered Persons and they have a right to protest even though we all pretty much disapprove. Whether a person is poorly educated or poorly mannered or loud is absolutely irrelevant as long as they are not violent.

Whether someone paid for their trip to a town hall so they can exercise their constitutional right to seek redress from their representatives is irrelevant too. Whether someone told them how to do it and what to say is irrelevant too.

Because the only thing that can stop a Democrat Party controlled White House, Congress and Senate from passing any bill it wants to in to law is the Democratic Party itself.

Democrats and people who actually want this health care bill need to be honest with them selves about that.

There is no reason for violence, name calling, hatred or intimidation tactics because the only thing that can defeat a Democratic controlled House, Senate and White House is Democrats.

What happened to common sense in America?

Hi. I hope you don't mind me posting this here, but apparently I can't start a new thread, but I feel this article might explain why Democrats in Congress are hesitating in passing this version of health care reform. It is also the first case of real analysis I have found done by the MSM.

5 freedoms you'd lose in health care reform

In promoting his health-care agenda, President Obama has repeatedly reassured Americans that they can keep their existing health plans -- and that the benefits and access they prize will be enhanced through reform. A close reading of the two main bills, one backed by Democrats in the House and the other issued by Sen. Edward Kennedy's Health committee, contradict the President's assurances. To be sure, it isn't easy to comb through their 2,000 pages of tortured legal language. But page by page, the bills reveal a web of restrictions, fines, and mandates that would radically change your health-care coverage. If you prize choosing your own cardiologist or urologist under your company's Preferred Provider Organization plan (PPO), if your employer rewards your non-smoking, healthy lifestyle with reduced premiums, if you love the bargain Health Savings Account (HSA) that insures you just for the essentials, or if you simply take comfort in the freedom to spend your own money for a policy that covers the newest drugs and diagnostic tests -- you may be shocked to learn that you could lose all of those good things under the rules proposed in the two bills that herald a health-care revolution.

Here is the key part to me.

4. Freedom to keep your existing plan

This is the freedom that the President keeps emphasizing. Yet the bills appear to say otherwise. It's worth diving into the weeds -- the territory where most pundits and politicians don't seem to have ventured. The legislation divides the insured into two main groups, and those two groups are treated differently with respect to their current plans. The first are employees covered by the Employee Retirement Security Act of 1974. ERISA regulates companies that are self-insured, meaning they pay claims out of their cash flow, and don't have real insurance. Those are the GEs (GE, Fortune 500) and Time Warners (TWX, Fortune 500) and most other big companies. The House bill states that employees covered by ERISA plans are "grandfathered." Under ERISA, the plans can do pretty much what they want -- they're exempt from standard packages and community rating and can reward employees for healthy lifestyles even in restrictive states. But read on. The bill gives ERISA employers a five-year grace period when they can keep offering plans free from the restrictions of the "qualified" policies offered on the exchanges. But after five years, they would have to offer only approved plans, with the myriad rules we've already discussed. So for Americans in large corporations, "keeping your own plan" has a strict deadline. In five years, like it or not, you'll get dumped into the exchange. As we'll see, it could happen a lot earlier. The outlook is worse for the second group. It encompasses employees who aren't under ERISA but get actual insurance either on their own or through small businesses. After the legislation passes, all insurers that offer a wide range of plans to these employees will be forced to offer only "qualified" plans to new customers, via the exchanges. The employees who got their coverage before the law goes into effect can keep their plans, but once again, there's a catch. If the plan changes in any way -- by altering co-pays, deductibles, or even switching coverage for this or that drug -- the employee must drop out and shop through the exchange. Since these plans generally change their policies every year, it's likely that millions of employees will lose their plans in 12 months.

Rest of the Article

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


What happened to common sense in America?

There is still SOME common sense in America. That is the only reason this thing hasn't been run through Congress like a runaway stimulus bill.
There are some Democrats who realize that this is NOT what their constituents want. They realize the Nation CAN NOT afford any of these bills.
They are starting to see Obama for what he is - a radical who cares not how his agenda actually affects this great nation.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


S&F

Nice post.

Democrats need an enemy. Whether it's the climate, carbon, the military, smokers, obese people, whites, christians, etc. . .
They need an enemy.

Some say that conservatives are the only true multicultural party because it is based on ideology not race, sex, economic or social status.

Liberals polarize. They need someone to hate so they can further their agenda. It's the only political party that requires another to make them legitamate.

Conservatives, on the other hand, have an ideology that is separate from any political party. I am a conservative. I am also a registered independent. The republican party disgusts me.

Democrats can not be honest with themselves only because their beliefs are a strawman against things like logic. Ideology like theirs requires another for them to actually exist.

If a democrat voted in the woods, and no one was around to hear them, would the vote count?

Originally posted by slicobacon

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


What happened to common sense in America?

There is still SOME common sense in America. That is the only reason this thing hasn't been run through Congress like a runaway stimulus bill.
There are some Democrats who realize that this is NOT what their constituents want. They realize the Nation CAN NOT afford any of these bills.
They are starting to see Obama for what he is - a radical who cares not how his agenda actually affects this great nation.

I sure hope that's true and if everything is on the up and up what the White House is really worried about is if it can get enough members of it's own party in Congress and the Senate to vote for the Health Care Bills.

Obamas Grass Roots Network Put to the Test

reply to post by mikerussellus

Democrats need an enemy. Whether it's the climate, carbon, the military, smokers, obese people, whites, christians, etc. . .

You know it's hard to argue that because in a lot of ways it seems to be the case.

They always seem out to be for social justice based on some strange perspective that just about everything is wrong some how.

They do have a tendency to take it to the extent that they seemingly want to take free will and independent thought away. Everything must be according to script, chapter and verse, everything must conform with their own constantly evolving ideas of what they think is fair and right, and if you weren't accidently blessed with being exactly that they sometimes do act like hanging is too good for you.

It does show intollerance and a real lack of social graces at times too.

Republicans sure can be tea totallers to the far right but at least they all pretty much have the common principal of make as much money as you can and spend it how you want on what you want because it is your money and right to do so.

I sometimes think the democrats think, republicans just have too much fun and have to be punished for it.

It's wierd, I don't belong to any party, and don't vote. I find it all very...well, strange, life is just too short to be everyone's keeper.

I sometimes think the democrats think, republicans just have too much fun and have to be punished for it.

Classic line. And too true. Like you stated, they are in charge of EVERYTHING.

Why are they still so damn angry?

Originally posted by mikerussellus

I sometimes think the democrats think, republicans just have too much fun and have to be punished for it.

Classic line. And too true. Like you stated, they are in charge of EVERYTHING.

Why are they still so damn angry?

Probably for the same reason I was always angry at the age of 14 after I would save my part time job's paycheck for months to buy a louder pair of stero speakers or a cooler turntable and when I would get home and take it out of the box and hook it up and play it my life didn't change and I was still the same old me.

I think they are angry because...well...they are still them and still fear Republicans have more fun.

I smoke and when I was younger and lived in L.A. the health facists hated it, but everytime I went to Vegas the Dealers would say the same thing always...smokers are better tippers and more fun to have at the tables...at the restaurants and bars the same things, the waitresses and the waiters and bartenders would say...the smokers are better tippers and more fun to have around.

I would watch Bars and Retaurants across the country that used to be packed every afternoon and night end up dieing a slow death when the non-smoking laws would go into effect and the smokers wouldn't come anymore.

A place that would hold a 100 with 110 people trying to jam into it, would turn into a place with 10 or 20 happy non-smokers, until it went out of business.

Fascists I swear.

reply to post by mikerussellus


The only thing that can explain this type of behavior is by studying the behavior of American toddlers. If you have kids you will see the similarities. Ever tried to reason with a three year old? So healthcare reform has been lowered to their level. They want it there way or they start calling everyone mean things, and throw themselves on the ground and throw a tantrum. We are all nasty little doo-doo head racists, because we dont love them, because we wont let them have their way.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by StinkyBallSweat]

reply to post by StinkyBallSweat


It's hard to miss the infantile behavior going on in so much of this, you are so right.

It's amazing most of the people involved actually consider themselves mature adults.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It's just people. Stop making it about left or right because there is no left and right, just money.

Why has this not passed yet? MONEY.

These officials are elected to do what is best for the country yet you seem to be supporting they do what is best for their careers and not try and better the working class.

Why has no health care reform passed like this previously? MONEY. The big health care industry would not like this to get passed at all. The lies about this bill are being spread to cause panic and fear.

Just because people don't see things the exact same way as you doesn't mean they don't see clearly or are not awake. You spend most of your post attacking a side and that's just how they want you to react.

Please detail what part of the 1000 page bill you have a problem with and be specific. I highly doubt you even really know why you're upset about this outside of the fact a talking head ( who probably abuses prescription drugs) told you to be angry about it.

Why is it OK for the US to spend more then any country on health care per person but not even be close to the top in care provided? We don't have good health care in this country and the countries that have a better system are laughing at us for fighting on not getting everyone covered.

Forget politics for a bit and think of the people. Creating a system that allows everyone to get medical treatment no matter what should be something the government actually does. Get them out of the bailouts and having meetings with police officers over beer, that's not why we have them.

Last question. Do you currently have health insurance and a job?

reply to post by whoshotJR

Last question. Do you currently have health insurance and a job?

No I don't have health insurance, but I have a great Doctor, and affordable access to top notch medical care.

I don't have a job. I am self employed and work at home.

I can appreciate all your sentiments.

If we lived in a world where there was not money and there were not corporations designed to make money, and there were not governments that could not be corrupted by corporate money and politicians and corporate leaders who could not be corrupted by greed I would agree with you and trust government then to be in the health care business.

Our government and our corporations have proven to me (maybe not you) beyond any shadow of a doubt that they do what they feel always is best for them regardless of the impact it has on citizens and how bad it is for us.

So while your vission and hopes are noble it just isn't pragmatic or realistic in this world in my humble oppinion at this point and place in time, and I am not in favor of the government being in the Health Care business or corporations either.

I tend to look for holistic natural cures for what ever ails me and very little ever ails me and holistic and natural cures have never failed me.

The Constitution and Government was set up to work under 'Natures G-d' in other word's Mother Nature. Nature is something I trust in, human nature...terrible track record!

I don't believe government or corporations should be in health care.

Originally posted by whoshotJR
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Why has no health care reform passed like this previously? MONEY. The big health care industry would not like this to get passed at all. The lies about this bill are being spread to cause panic and fear.

Just because people don't see things the exact same way as you doesn't mean they don't see clearly or are not awake. You spend most of your post attacking a side and that's just how they want you to react.

Please detail what part of the 1000 page bill you have a problem with and be specific. I highly doubt you even really know why you're upset about this outside of the fact a talking head ( who probably abuses prescription drugs) told you to be angry about it.

You make it sound as if all the "money" is on the oppossing side of the healthcare debate. Why are the drug companies putting up over 150 MILLION Dollars to try and support Obama's plan???? They (Drug Companies) want to protect their 80 BILLION they collect, 150M is chump change in that context and you better believe they expect the Obama Administration to protect them. So who is really "beholden" to who????

The main problem I have with the plan in general is this: It will end up costing more not less, with reduced services for those with insurance now.

For examples, just look at this thread by RedHatty, who has done a great job: Let's discuss what's in the Health Care Bill

reply to post by pavil

The main problem I have with the plan in general is this: It will end up costing more not less, with reduced services for those with insurance now.

Great contribution...the sad truth is that the Democrats and the White House are pushing this bill the same way they ran the election...

on 'NOT' campaign, I am not George Bush, I won't do this, I won't do that...there will be change...what kind of change? Change, change...like what...change, trust me I am not George Bush, I won't do this, I won't do that...

Yet in reality he is more like George Bush than George Bush is and the change has been to abuse more Presidential and Congressional power, the transparency is that it's obvious that they are abusing more Presidential and Congressional power.

Same tactic with the Health Care Bill which no finalized version of exists...It's not this, it's not that, it will offer you change, but we haven't formulated the change, but we have great minds working on it...just like they had great minds working on the Economy...the same richest people who screwed up the economy...

My heros!

People need to wake up to the fact that there really should be a Real Bill that they really are letting us first see, and then debate, before they try to vote on it.

Thanks for posting.