White House Blocks Opposition From Staged Obama Town Hall Event

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posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 





I'm sorry Prof, I saw Bush script so many town hall meetings over the last 8 years I thought that was just how that was done at the presidential level. You mean it isn't and all that was completely bogus and unbecoming of President Bush? I mean, if it was wrong of Bush, then I would suspect it would be wrong of Obama.


First of all, did I defend Bush in any post regarding this issue? No.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
However, on the previous page, you said this"




I think it's hilarious that one rumor on prisonplanet and all the other posters above me buy it hook line and sinker...


Then, in reply to my post, you said this:




I thought that was just how that was done at the presidential level.


So which is it? Did you KNOW this is what is done, or do you stick to the first statement that you made, that you believe it is just a rumor and that other posters just "buy it hook line and sinker".

Or, perhaps, is it just that you will defend Obama regardless of any FACTS, and say whatever needs to be said to either defend him or excuse your lack of logic?

I await an answer. It ought to be interesting.




posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Make the dissenters the bad ones!

Leave Barack Alone!


So all of this is a diversion by the people who want to, frankly, hurt President Obama
Barbara Boxer.

No this is about people waking up and smelling the kool-aid!

President Obama tried to convince lawmakers in his own party of the urgent need to pass heathcare "reform" due to the "crisis" in the heathcare industry. He did not succeed, his deadlline came and went!

Now Democrats play the victim. ObamaCare must really be in trouble.


If the plan were good, you would expect its proponents to be staking their arguments on its merits.


Instead, they are turning this into a debate about the opponents!

online.wsj.com...


Only hours after the Obama White House told supporters to “punch back twice as hard” against critics, near St. Louis, African-American conservative Kenneth Gladney was attacked and savagely beaten by four N-word-spouting thugs wearing the purple t-shirts of the ultra-leftist Service Employee International Union (SEIU), one of the nation's two biggest government employee unions.
www.newsmax.com...ATS



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by Angus123
 


Actually the quoted wording you use is nearly verbatim what Obama has been saying this last week!


“I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them just to get out of the way.”
In other words: “Unless you agree with me, shut up.” Mr. Obama’s message is sharply as odds with the Democrat National Committee’s ads that claim it’s the other side which is trying to silence people.
ATS

[edit on 11-8-2009 by burntheships]


No... that's more like, "you've done enough, thanks."


No its more like whining, and blaming and demonizing your opponents! It is like sour grapes, sore loser, temper tantrums!



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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OK...

I *think* this says it all...




OBAMA Quoted here ... Wait for it...

"I think private insurers should be able to compete," he said. "They do it all the time." He pointed to package-shipping services as an example.

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine," he said. "It's the Post Office that's always having problems."



OMG he just slammed himself and US Post Services (aka big gov't) claiming the private sector does even better than the institution of our post office.

So, this is what we are to expect. USPS is $2B in the red.

What ever will our US Gov't Health Care look like in comparison. It boggles the mind.

This is why we protest.

Another thought: if this was scripted Town Hall; one script writer will be sleeping with fisheys tonight.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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Wow. This has thread is growing fast. I wonder how many of you actually took the time to watch the entire meeting? Staged or no, it seemed to be a better model of discussion than the childish name calling and screaming matches to which some of the other town hall meetings have devolved.

I watched the entire event with a weathered eye towards plants and staging, and it did seem to me that there were pre-screened questions. However, there were some, especially the gentleman who asked the last question whom I honestly believe were skeptics.

Furthermore, some posters in this thread seem to be more concerned with whether or not Bush's staged press conferences either justify Obama doing the same; or if Obama doing the same now, is somehow worse; or that the "liberal" media is too quiet about such precipitous action by the White House.

All of these concerns miss the mark by a wide margin in my opinion. The concern should be whether or not he answered the questions presented honestly, regardless of the source of the questioning (planted or spontaneous). The answers appeared to me to be rehearsed but not memorized, so that's inconclusive.

The real question then becomes which version of the (lowercase - t) "truth" you choose to accept. That which is spoon fed by the left, or the one similarly supplied by the right. I will admit, though I am a Libertarian leaning life-long Republican, I have so much disdain and distrust for the corporate elite and in particular the Insurance companies, that the Left's version is more palatable to me. However, that does not mean I am not skeptical.

If more of us would attempt look at the debate from a less partisan side, or at least admit our partisan leanings to ourselves then maybe we could find which version of truth actually bears the closest semblance to the actual (upper case - T) Truth, and these threads would be more educational.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by centurion1211
 


I could say the same of you regarding your propensity towards fear.

Another definition you might want to look up is non conformist.

As an independent I am able to approve/disdain anything anyone from any party states.

I'm surprised at your attempt to say that me voicing my opinion is somehow being a sycophant.

Pscyhopants... yes... Sycophant... nope. Notice above how I said that if GB stacking the town halls was wrong, then obviously it is wrong for Obama to do the same.

How is that being a yes man? I never defended that. Of course neither was it proved, so there was nothing for anyone to defend.


Easy. The term sycophant sticks if a person NEVER finds fault with obama and/or his policies (in this case). And that's why I added the term shill. Come on, you (and several others like curious skeptic, who claims to be an "independent"
) are acting like Billy Mays for Obama on all these threads.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but...

Since the unions are exempt from the Obamacare bill, why are they showing up at the town hall meetings lately?

The only reason that makes sense is to intimidate people - thuggery. Unions are apparently the new brown shirts.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by Angus123
 


Actually the quoted wording you use is nearly verbatim what Obama has been saying this last week!


“I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them just to get out of the way.”
In other words: “Unless you agree with me, shut up.” Mr. Obama’s message is sharply as odds with the Democrat National Committee’s ads that claim it’s the other side which is trying to silence people.
ATS

[edit on 11-8-2009 by burntheships]


No... that's more like, "you've done enough, thanks."


No its more like whining, and blaming and demonizing your opponents! It is like sour grapes, sore loser, temper tantrums!


So... people show up at these meetings... scream at the top of their lungs, intimidate and contribute nothing, but I'm a sore loser?

You're so cute I could just gobble you up!



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by DrMattMaddix
 


That is exactly the kind of complaint someone who either didn't listen, didn't comprehend, or still doesn't care would make. The President made it very clear that the proposed Bill, which is not in finalized form, that he supports is one that would NOT be a single payer (ie medicare/VA style) system. It would be all about citizens having the ability to do collective bargaining with the private insurance providers already in place, just like the Federal Employees already can. The only sticking point about then is whether or not there is a public "option" available. That is the option he compared to the USPS and said, quite correctly, that it would not drive the private carriers out of business.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by centurion1211
 


I could say the same of you regarding your propensity towards fear.

Another definition you might want to look up is non conformist.

As an independent I am able to approve/disdain anything anyone from any party states.

I'm surprised at your attempt to say that me voicing my opinion is somehow being a sycophant.

Pscyhopants... yes... Sycophant... nope. Notice above how I said that if GB stacking the town halls was wrong, then obviously it is wrong for Obama to do the same.

How is that being a yes man? I never defended that. Of course neither was it proved, so there was nothing for anyone to defend.


Easy. The term sycophant sticks if a person NEVER finds fault with obama and/or his policies (in this case). And that's why I added the term shill. Come on, you (and several others like curious skeptic, who claims to be an "independent"
) are acting like Billy Mays for Obama on all these threads.



I realize that's how you see it.

However the reality is that I can't stand the tactic of trying to paint something as evil which isn't.

What I am opposed to are lies like "Death Panels". Honestly do you believe there are planned death panels in the current bill?



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by SaraThustra
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but...

Since the unions are exempt from the Obamacare bill, why are they showing up at the town hall meetings lately?

The only reason that makes sense is to intimidate people - thuggery. Unions are apparently the new brown shirts.


Good question...and I found the answer!
Reasons for the SEIU at the meetings outlined here!



SEIU gave Democrats $80 million for the 2008 election, and the union's radical president, Andy Stern, reportedly meets privately with Obama weekly in the White House. SEIU works closely with hyper-leftist ACORN, one tentacle of which was once headed in Illinois by Obama.

“I'd prefer to use the power of persuasion,” Stern says, “but if it doesn't work I'm prepared to use the persuasion of power.”

In a speech before SEIU, Obama said he would be unable to replace all private employer health insurance with government single-payer socialized medicine “immediately,” but said he favored single-payer.

SEIU's former organizing director, Margarida Jorge, is now national field director of HCAN, Health Care for America Now, devoted to pushing for passage of Obamacare.

In an Aug. 4 tactical manual, Jorge told her radical shock troops how to deal with Obamacare critics in public gatherings. “[D]rown them out,” she wrote.

“Do not debate on their 'policy' points. . . . Interrupt them. . . . Line up a number of people who feel comfortable interrupting. . . .,” wrote Jorge. “Shut them down with chants. . . .”


ATS
www.newsmax.com...


[edit on 11-8-2009 by burntheships]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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I think that siathtf

everything that they say the repubs are doing, I think the dems are doing

I think they made sarah palin say what she said
i think they put repubs in town hall meetings

its all the dem's doing

[edit on 11-8-2009 by ModernAcademia]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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I guess this on topic because its about obama and staged events.Thia hunka/hunka character as well as a few others are obviously paid detractors,he is on here all day every and never really says any thing constructive ,he touts obama every chance he gets,it is never warranted or backed up with facts he can't even say what he likes about obama,he always deflects questions or accusations with a standard I don't like liars or aren't we skeptics.he is probably not able to come out and say certain things because his bosses wont let him (you know don't make it to obvious)either that or obama is his father or he is head over heels in love with him(judging from his avatar I'd say the latter)either way I wish he would put up or shut up!why do you love obama so? you hunka/hunka misinformation



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Artephius Abraxas Helios
reply to post by DrMattMaddix
 


That is exactly the kind of complaint someone who either didn't listen, didn't comprehend, or still doesn't care would make. The President made it very clear that the proposed Bill, which is not in finalized form, that he supports is one that would NOT be a single payer (ie medicare/VA style) system. It would be all about citizens having the ability to do collective bargaining with the private insurance providers already in place, just like the Federal Employees already can. The only sticking point about then is whether or not there is a public "option" available. That is the option he compared to the USPS and said, quite correctly, that it would not drive the private carriers out of business.


You don't get it do you?

IF they pass this bill ... Once you all looking the other way they will amend the crap out of it!!!

Go find Creature from Jekyll Island and read/watch how they passed legislation to form the Federal Reserve System. Knowing that they just needed it to pass. Look where we are today.

All they need to do is pass something... anything

The final bill won't be final. In the dark of Friday Nights they will be amending this when no one is looking and you will wake up to a completely changed and diabolical bill. By then it will be too late. Because "it's for the good of the children."

It doesn't matter who is backing the bill; Congress will eventually twist this into something evil (thanks to lobbying.)

If you want health care ... Look at what the Representative from Oklahoma (Terry?) is proposing. People can buy into one of Congresses health care plans.

I don't understand debate on this at all.

Gov't run Health Care is over as far as I'm concerned. I think alot of the protesters feel the same.

Obama should have moved on long ago. That's what leaders do... they move on. They don't slam stuff down their peoples throats. He's only a temporary worker.

If Obama wants to make a real difference... Repeal the Patriot Act. What a load of horsecrap that is... Then...

TAZE the FED.

EDIT for spelling and other purposes

[edit on 8·11·09 by DrMattMaddix]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I think that siathtf

everything that they say the repubs are doing, I think the dems are doing

I think they made sarah palin say what she said
i think they put repubs in town hall meetings

its all the dem's doing

[edit on 11-8-2009 by ModernAcademia]


Honestly? Or are you being sarcastic?




posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Artephius Abraxas Helios
reply to post by DrMattMaddix
 

You don't get it do you?

IF they pass this bill ... Once you all looking the other way they will amend the crap out of it!!!

Go find Creature from Jekyll Island and read/watch how they passed legislation to form the Federal Reserve System. Knowing that they just needed it to pass. Look where we are today.

All they need to do is pass something... anything

The final bill won't be final. In the dark of Friday Nights they will be amending this when no one is looking and you will wake up to a completely changed and diabolical bill. By then it will be too late. Because "it's for the good of the children."

It doesn't matter who is backing the bill; Congress will eventually twist this into something evil (thanks to lobbying.)

If you want health care ... Look at what the Representative from Oklahoma (Terry?) is proposing. People can buy into one of Congresses health care plans.

I don't understand debate on this at all.

Gov't run Health Care is over as far as I'm concerned. I think alot of the protesters feel the same.

Obama should have moved on long ago. That's what leaders do... they move on. They don't slam stuff down their peoples throats. He's only a temporary worker.

If Obama wants to make a real difference... Repeal the Patriot Act. What a load of horsecrap that is... Then...

TAZE the FED.

EDIT for spelling and other purposes

[edit on 8·11·09 by DrMattMaddix]



Maybe I don't get it.

Or, maybe its you.

You didn't respond to my claim that you misrepresented Obama's analogy, and instead chose to chastise me as one who "doesn't get it." Then you attempt to show how much more informed you are than me by going on to give me a little lesson about the Fed.

Well, that's cute, but I don't need your lesson, as I am well aware of the FED and the problems it presents this nation. I am very much in favor of abolishing the FED, and I am very familiar with " The Creature From Jekyll Island" and really don't appreciate your insinuation that I am somehow ill informed simply because we disagree on health care reform.

By your logic congress should never pass anything because there is always the chance that it can be bastardized at the last minute.

You go on to show naive fear by claiming that the proposed bill will be "twisted' into something "evil," and that I will wake up to a "diabolical' bill. My question to you is this, does this scary fear mongering ever work on anyone who is not twelve?

Most brazenly of all, you claim that Obama should repeal the Patriot Act, as if I am somehow a Patriot Act supporter. This is beyond reproach. For at least half a decade now I have been telling friends and relatives and anyone who will stand still long enough to listen, how the Patriot Act was the most grave attack on America's Constitution, and in particular the Bill of Rights, in over a century. But where were you when that occurred? Not encouraging civil discourse I bet.

But when the Insurance companies' bottom lines is on the block for reform, now of all times, you want to speak up against the Government.

It would be pathetic if it were not so sad that the American people are so easily led astray. Habeus Corpus was suspended and no one makes a peep. But reform is proposed to reign in the corrupt health insurance industry and because of fear and misinformation those same people who would benefit most from said reform will go to the streets to protest.

And yet your only response to my reasoned analysis of Obama's USPS/ Fed ex analogy, is that I don't get it.

I suppose I don't, but what I don't get and what you don't get are apparently two very different things.

P.S. There is not an Oklahoma Congressman named Terry that I know of, so what reform he has presented I am not aware.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Artephius Abraxas Helios
 


I wasn't getting personal at you... I was pointing it out to the people that read and don't post. Remember this is a global forum.

We were all new to this once. I found out about the FED and etc. from some obscure post that was totally off topic. (Everyone goes OT sometimes.)

Yes, the gov't will bastardize this. They bastardize everything. Because we let them. If people would not have let Bush enact the Patriot Act and protested then... We'd have had that debate 8 years behind us now. But fear of the unknown 'terrorist' clutched at every parents' heart.

We all failed!

What's happening now as much as Obama might be the most wonderful guy you'd ever want over for a sleep over and stuff... It's happening on his watch. He has pushed too many things too hard. Now, people are revolting against it. It's nothing personal. Unless they want to make such.

TPTB just want to get their foot in the door with this bill. Obama was quoted as saying "this (bill 3200) will pass before the recess." Well, that came and went, and good thing too. We're finding out the details of this bill; yet, again, this whole debate about this bill is a non-issue. It's my belief that anti-3200'ers don't want ANY bill to pass allowing Gov't run Health Care.

You may see the shipping analogy as something to champion. Yet, I immediately saw the opposite. And again LOL at Obama. (BTW: just as I LOL at Bush's and Carter and Reagan and especially Ford et al.) I should pay more attention. I considered my point about the FedEx vs USPS as a done deal and understood. I see both the positive and the negative sides.

Seeing as how USPS is only $2B in the red is nothing compared to the hundreds of billions in the red this HC 3200 is going to put us into ... so, I guess, in that respect, USPS is livin' large at only $2B red.

Anyhow, I tend to discard and ignore the point has already been made. It's not the fear of (a 12 year old and) the unknown ... It's a cynical truth about congress, that they are a buttload of liars. Period. They are going to say and do anything to get their way, even going against their constituency.

But they have donors to satisfy.

The fear only comes in when I imagine WTF else are they going to do if it's passed. We all know someone will requisition a plane or some other absurdity at the last minute; we've seen that or something similar to get their Aye votes.

If they fail to listen to these, mostly independent, protesters and just go and pass it (BTW: it doesn't matter who sponsors them or no sponsor; that's completely irrelevant; unions have made quite clear they are pro-HC) this will be the waterloo.

Obama should just let this drop and let people cool off. That's a leader in touch with reality.

I just heard that even Spector is attempting to Federal Referendum; a precedent (?) in federal lawmaking. So, He's backing down and deferring to his constituents?

The congressman that I referred to is in the video... My first impression is that he's very down to earth, clever and funny. Watch his proposal.

If we have any reform we should be listening to ALL angles. He doesn't tout gov't run HC.


(click to open player in new window)


There are no finer points to this bill. If they are wise, they will let it go; give people time to catch their breathe; and bring up something more important. Else, all I see is heads rolling.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by DrMattMaddix
 

The point about this being a Global Forum and not taking the lesson personally is well made, and I accept that there certainly are those among us who could use a review.

However, just because we know that things HAVE gone awry in the past, this is simply not proof positive that they always WILL go awry in the present or the future. Instead it should serve as a warning to us to be vigilant watchers of proposals which do not pass the smell test. Health care reform falls in that category and thus I actually respect your vigilance on the issue

That said, taking the stance that just because TPTB are nefarious, we can no longer have a functioning Government, because anything that passes Congress must necessarily also be nefarious, is a strange stance to take in my opinion.

You claim that Obama is forcing Health Reform down our throat as if the issue has not been thoroughly discussed over decades, and is somehow new. History shows that not to be the case, as Health Care reform was first brought up (strangely enough by the Republicans) during President Eisenhower's administration. Clinton attempted passing similar reform during his first year in office and failed due to pressure from ads paid for by the Insurance conglomerates.

Thus, Obama's "rush" to pass health care is not because its new, but rather because it appears to be "now or never" in the eyes of the liberals. I don't like that aspect of it any more than you do, but I do recognize the sense of urgency. Everyday there are more and more Americans losing their jobs in this economy, and everyday therefore, more and more Americans lose their health care coverage. Meanwhile the Insurance companies are making record profits (look it up - this is undeniable fact). Thus, it seems to me that as the greatest nation on earth, we can, should, and must do better.

Yet, you don't want anything passed because of some shadowy /specter of the perceived TPTB's intent behind health care reform. Well, I'm a believer in TPTB also. TPTB do exist. But the Health Insurance Industry is TPTB, Lobbyist are TPTB, the status quo is TPTB.

To put the analogy that started our conversation to bed once and for all, let me just say this: the USPS is Government option for your mail delivery needs, the proposed "public" option (to go along with all of the private options) would be a Government option for your health INSURANCE needs. NOT GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE.

Furthermore, the fact that the USPS is in the red is not relevant, because if you listened to Obama's actual answer to the town hall today, he explained that the public option must be paid for, and not add to the deficit. He proposed that it can be paid for by collecting premiums and providing services just like the private companies do, and will only serve to keep the private providers from flooding the market with throw away policies. It is there simply to keep the private options honest. And just like the USPS, if you would rather ship with Fed Ex you maintian that right. Thus, your original post regarding the USPS analogy was incorrect and misleading.

As for the video you posted, I found it humorous, but severely slanted as one would expect from FOX news. However, the Congressman from Nebraska (not Oklahoma) had a good proposal. Unfortunately, his proposal is very similar the one actually already on the table which all the fuss is about but without a public option on the list. Now, who could possibly benefit from a plan which eliminates the one option not offered by the private health insurance companies...... could it be,..... maybe those very companies themselves?

I enjoyed the debate, and appreciate keeping it civil, that is sometimes hard to find on the internet these days, and you are to be commended.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by Angus123
 


I was not referring to you, rather the healthcare proponents, and President Obama, Pelosi.

No offense meant.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by burntheships]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Artephius Abraxas Helios
 





By your logic congress should never pass anything because there is always the chance that it can be bastardized at the last minute. You go on to show naive fear by claiming that the proposed bill will be "twisted' into something "evil," and that I will wake up to a "diabolical' bill. My question to you is this, does this scary fear mongering ever work on anyone who is not twelve?

Actually, he does get it.
Let me repost the explanation that I gave on another thread:




I think that perhaps inherent in the WH Reality check is the Freudian admission that they KNOW what will be placed in the bill, once both houses pass it, and it goes to committee for reconciliation. What many people (I'm sure you know, but many don't) don't know is that unless the house and senate both pass identical bills, it will go to a committee, which is controlled by Democrats, to "reconcile the bill". This is where very nasty things can happen. Since the Democrats completely control the Senate, and since Biden presides over it, any question as to the applicability of the Byrd Provision will be decided in favor of the Democrats. That will essentially allow them to rewrite the bill any way they like, and then a simple 50-yea vote makes it law. So worrying about what is in the bill now is meaningless. It is what OBama and the radicals have promised will be in the bill that should concern all of us. With only 20 hours of debate in the reconciled bill, and no filibuster possible, the Senate will certainly pass whatever the majority of the Democrats want. Obama knows this, and so does everyone in Congress.

....and just think... most people don't have a clue as to what will happen... all of this debate is to keep your eye off the ball...the process will kill all of us. Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain....He is just pulling all the strings.


By the way, this is not meant as a partisan post. Both sides play this game, WHEN they have a majority in both houses. In fact, not only will the bill be changed, but it MUST be, by law, if there is ANY difference in the versions voted on by the House and by the Senate. Since it is assured that the two chambers WILL have different versions, it WILL HAVE to go to reconcilliation and after the reconcilliated bill is finalized, it is voted on in the Senate-simple 50 vote pass procedure.





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