Palin 'death panel' claim sets Truth-O-Meter ablaze

Hey Hunka...

MEDIA MATTERS is a good factcheck site as well.

Factcheck, Politifact and Media Matters are my favorite non-partisan BS shredders. Whenever I see something questionable on the left or right I check those sites first for clarity and go from there.

Media Matters on Healthcare Reform
mediamattersaction.org...

reply to post by maybereal11

We are still in a recession, people are still losing jobs. The healthcare "reform" bill "reforms" nothing, just gives it a different master. Nothing is changing. It's all the status quo, a decline.

reply to post by Highground


Please, sincerely no offense intended.

What you stated does not make sense to me, but rather seems contradictory and a desperately contorted attempt to address my question.

It's the same but different. Complete change, but no change. Doom, Gloom spiraling economy etc. One part nonsense - one part an appeal to fear and pessimism?

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by Highground

 

Please, sincerely no offense intended.

What you stated does not make sense to me, but rather seems contradictory and a desperately contorted attempt to address my question.

It's the same but different. Complete change, but no change. Doom, Gloom spiraling economy etc. One part nonsense - one part an appeal to fear and pessimism?

I never said there was complete change. We were on a downward spiral when Obama came into office, and we still are. How is that change? If something is the SAME, there is no CHANGE. How difficult is that to comprehend?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

It's almost as if thats the biggest weakness America has.. it's fear.

I thought that part deserved quoting all by itself.

Completely agree with you on that.

A death panel? Talk about fear mongering. And let me ask all of the Palin supporters. Who is the "death panel" at this moment? Health insurance companies whos bottom line is your health? or their pocketbook? Yep, their pocketbook.

I am confused I thought Palin threw a fit about her children being "used" in the public, but then she turns around and uses her son with downs syndrome to cause fear? Oh, I guess she only wants her children "used" when she feels she can benefit from it.

Originally posted by SevenThunders

 

Are you even familiar with what advanced care planning is?

I am only 40, and I have had one for ten years. Why? Because enough bad *snip* happened in my family, that we realized we needed one. Almost everyone in our family has one now. EVERY adult should have one. Advanced care for example means, if you end up in a coma and will most assuredly never awaken, what type of care do you want to receive? The minimum or the maximum? If you have cancer, and are dying, do you want them to let you gently, with medications, pass away? Or do you want them to fight tooth and nail to save you, put you on machines and keep you alive even if you are in a coma and will never awaken?

When my mother in law was diagnosed with lung cancer, she made an advanced care directive. What did SHE want? To be at home with us, her family, with lots of medications, instead of in a hospital on machines. She got what she wanted because of her directive, without it, we would have been forced to put her in a hospital that last week.

When my Mema had cancer, she wanted EVERYTHING possible done for her, so the last three weeks of her life, while in a coma, the Dr.s did everything in the book to keep her alive. It was horrible, but because her advanced care directive called for EVERYTHING POSSIBLE, they did everything possible. The woman still died, while her family watched in horror. It was a fight, to keep her alive, on machines, in a coma, tons of meds, shocking her heart, dialysis, etc. for three weeks of life in a coma.

Learn what you are talking about before throwing fits about it. Dr.s at this time will discuss advanced care with you if YOU bring it up. Hospitals are required to discuss advanced care with you when you go in for surgery. It is so they KNOW what YOUR WISHES are in regards to IF something bad happens to you. BUT, they do not go into detail as to what it really means, they tell you the quick basics, hand you the forms, and walk away.

PERSONALLY, I think it is great that people become more aware of what advanced care directives are, what they are for, and that trained knowledgeable people can help in setting one up.

The problem with advanced care directives now, is that every state has it's own legal forms. So the form I have now, does not qualify as a legal document in another state. It sounds to me like this is trying to create ONE type of advance care directive that will be legal in every state.

18 ‘‘(I) ensures such orders are standardized

Who makes the choices about your end of life care now? INSURANCE COMPANIES who are looking out for their profit margins and not your health. If an insurance company decides they do not want to pay for your care, they just deny services and many of them DO. Once that happens, and you die, your family is left with huge medical bills, on top of having to deal with the loss of a loved one.

To those who are complaining about the bank account issue. I have my concerns over this as well. But tell me, how many bills do you automatically pay through your bank account without even thinking about it? I know I pay several. Every month, my bills are automatically paid without me even having to think about it, other than to make sure I have the money in my account. Would you be complaining about this if it was your credit card wanting to you pay like this? hmmm, probably not. Or what about your electric? Wait, I do that already. hmmm, ooh ooh I know, your car payment? Wait, I did that too when I had a car payment. Guess not that either. Most of us, feel it is a convenience to our lives to pay our bills this way. Believe it or not, it is also cheaper for companies when they have their customers pay this way.

Originally posted by jdub297

Medicare already does this, when you get your forms, they have an advanced care directive for patients to fill out IF THEY WANT. It is a good idea. Or would you rather be in a car accident, with NO chance of ever having a real life, but because you did not have an advanced care directive you spend the next 20 years on life support in a coma? It is what happens now when people do not have an advanced care directive. *sigh trust me on this. Been there with my brother. Really bad car accident, to which his life was "saved", only to live in a coma and die 13ish years later. Lovely life he had for 13 years eh? Ever heard of "quality of life"? I can guarantee those 13 years he had on machines were NOT quality. IF, he had an advanced care directive as I now do, 13 years on a machine in a coma would not have happened.

The doctor "shall" explain that Medicare pays for hospice care (hint, hint).

Do you even know what you are talking about? We had to use hospice when my mother in law had lung cancer and was dying, they are a beautiful company, but we could not have afforded hospice without Medicare. Many people do not even KNOW about Hospice, much less know that Medicare will pay for it. What is sinister in letting your patients know what options they have? NOTHING, it is a good thing to let people know what their options are. At least in my book it is.

Originally posted by undo
when they categorized dementia as a terminal illness that should have medical support withdrawn, i was a bit surprised. dementia is treatable. it's not terminal.

Where did you see in the bill that they would terminate patients with dementia? And yes, dementia is a terminal illness. It is treatable, but NOT curable and it IS terminal.

Originally posted by skycopilot
Gov. mandates program for orders for end of life; in other words, the Gov. has a say in how you die.

No, it means that....drum roll.....everybody dies at some point in time in their lives ... and that everyone has a right to know what their options are. Again, learn what an advanced directive really is before you get all fearful of it.

Harm None
Peace

Fear is the most powerful weapon there is...

Turn off your televisions. Do your own independent research...it doesn't surprise me many individuals are afraid of Obama's health care plan. Especially when they watch MSM and there's nothing but propaganda, hate, paranoia, fear, and so on...........

Turn off your televisions. Thanks.

Since this is a "truth-o-meter" based thread, can someone answer my questions on the previous page.

Please tell me how his version of health care is going to let me keep my insurance plan? This is perhaps the biggest BS statement I've heard yet.

I don't have private insurance. I'm insured through my employer and we have a self-funded plan. What if this goes through. Do you NOT think my employer would drop this benefit and increase their margins? Let's see...continue to fund a millions of dollars health plan for our employees or let them get government care. Which do you think they would choose?

My employer drops the health benefit. What am I to do? Get private insurance? What about pre-existing conditions? I may not have had one when I started with my employer, but maybe I have one now. Think I can afford it? I think not.

You can argue all day amongst yourselves about how great or not great Obama is and all of this change crap. I see what he is doing as intentionally eliminating private insurance and FORCING us to get on government care.

Some of you seem very content to tell us how great this would be, but you'll be singing a different tune if you or one of your loved ones is put on that waiting list or is denied care.

Is the current system perfect? Far from it. How about tort reform? Whatever happened to that? There are sooooo many other options other than a government run health care system. Let the free market decide and let there be healthy competition.

Open your eyes people.

Are you people still attacking her? Shes no longer in office and yall are still bashing the woman.
Its time to get over it and move on.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Alien Mind]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
But when you read the truth-o-meter, it's amazing how much FALSE rumors are being circulated.

As I sit here and watch the loonies on TV at these town halls (yep loonies... some are downright throwing tantrums), I'm amazed at how much of the American public, and ATSers are consistently duped by fear.

Have you read the bill yourself? Or are you simply taking the word of 'politifact.com'? Cause that would be looney.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by RichieScott1]

reply to post by maybereal11


LOL Media Matters is funded by liberal groups, so there is no middle of the road with them.... ROFL LOL all media matters is a just another mouth piece for george soros. ROFL ROFL. Got anymore of that kool-aid?


en.wikipedia.org...
www.discoverthenetworks.org...
www.sourcewatch.org...
www.youtube.com...
sweetness-light.com...

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Please tell me how his version of health care is going to let me keep my insurance plan? This is perhaps the biggest BS statement I've heard yet.

No, you may not. Your employer will no longer be able to afford it.

Even if HE underwrote the cost at a loss he will not be allowed to offer better benefits.

(A tax-free, self-funded program for BASIC and PREVENTIVE CARE would return us to a healthier lifestyle and free-market system. A collective "pool" of federal, employee and employer contributions could provide coverage for "catastrophic" illness. Your ability to 'shop around' with YOUR OWN MONEY will result in competetive pricing for most services.)

The bill is available online and there is an ATS thread dissecting it piece by piece for everyone's perusal and interpretation.

Good luck to you and your employer.

jw

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Is it possible that the entire death panel thing is misunderstood?
Palin is an idiot by the way

That was one of the best videos I have ever seen!

Originally posted by jdub297
Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Please tell me how his version of health care is going to let me keep my insurance plan? This is perhaps the biggest BS statement I've heard yet.

No, you may not. Your employer will no longer be able to afford it.

jdub: are you an employer?

I employ 13 people. I pay for their health insurance. Over the last 3 years the cost has shot up over 100%+.

WE CAN'T AFFORD IT NOW!

reply to post by HunkaHunka


except that it is in the bill. Not directly, but it allows it to be done.

It's like saying legalizing quarters for troops to stay at in civilian homes violates a person's home rights. Certainly only a small number will be affected, but it still has the potential to affect all.

That's what she means and I agree.

reply to post by centurion1211


I am actually not a supporter of ObamaCare.

Yes, some of us can think for ourselves and don't just "take a stand" for nothing. Amazing, is it not?

reply to post by centurion1211


The only thing I support is Health Care reform. Since all laws in this country are made by the gov, that would be Government Health Care reform, as much as laws allowing you to buy, sell, and trade in more guns would be Government Gun Law Reform.


This bill is a start. It is not ObamaCare. It doesn't have anything in it which is specifically something Obama is looking for other than reform. We will get there... but not yet.

I'm surprised at your inability to support the right of those who choose to go this direction.

I guess democracy is a double edged sword. Thank God we don't live in Rome.

reply to post by RichieScott1


I dont think he has read the bill, and using other peoples notes. I have noticed when you give him some good rebuttals he tends to ignore you or talk about someone elses post that may not make sense.

Originally posted by jdub297
Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Please tell me how his version of health care is going to let me keep my insurance plan? This is perhaps the biggest BS statement I've heard yet.

No, you may not. Your employer will no longer be able to afford it.

Even if HE underwrote the cost at a loss he will not be allowed to offer better benefits.

(A tax-free, self-funded program for BASIC and PREVENTIVE CARE would return us to a healthier lifestyle and free-market system. A collective "pool" of federal, employee and employer contributions could provide coverage for "catastrophic" illness. Your ability to 'shop around' with YOUR OWN MONEY will result in competetive pricing for most services.)

The bill is available online and there is an ATS thread dissecting it piece by piece for everyone's perusal and interpretation.

Good luck to you and your employer.

jw

The problem with health insurance through employment? Not all employment offers health insurance. My company does not. They are small, so zero, zip, nada health insurance through them. Oh, wait... we get a dental discount plan for which we all pay for. We pay $25.00 a month per person, and get a 25% discount on dental work. With children it is worth it at this time.

Just called my child's pediatrician as school is starting and he needs a tdap update. They want approx. $250.00 as we do not have insurance. So I called our local health department, and we will go there as they want $15.00. So, YAY for our local "government" health department.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by RichieScott1

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
But when you read the truth-o-meter, it's amazing how much FALSE rumors are being circulated.

As I sit here and watch the loonies on TV at these town halls (yep loonies... some are downright throwing tantrums), I'm amazed at how much of the American public, and ATSers are consistently duped by fear.

Have you read the bill yourself? Or are you simply taking the word of 'politifact.com'? Cause that would be looney.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by RichieScott1]

Yep I have read the portions of the bill which are currently being lied about.

In the end, it does drive more folks to read the bill. But I wish there were better ways to handle it instead of lying.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by RichieScott1

 

I dont think he has read the bill, and using other peoples notes. I have noticed when you give him some good rebuttals he tends to ignore you or talk about someone elses post that may not make sense.

I appreciate your concern. However, I can only respond to so many people ya know.


I have yet to see any good rebuttal of my rebuttals of lies. So you'll have that.