Palin 'death panel' claim sets Truth-O-Meter ablaze

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posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by SevenThunders
 



Evidently the fear mongers of the world didn't learn when their tactics lost the election.


This debate has nothing to do with the parties. I'm so sick of this argument. Liberal, Conservative, Democrat, Republican, does it really make a difference in this debate? I know plenty of people who voted for Obama and are questioning this bill as much as people who voted for McCain. ( i didn't vote for either)

I'm sick of people implying that if you voted for Obama you are for it and if you didn't you are not. Its not true its just what Fox news and Msnbc wants you to believe.

With a change this big it demands the debate.




posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


I am not afraid of reform, (by the way I am an Independent) I do not wish to see the goverment run health care... All one has to do is look to other Socailzed programs like Social Security (bankrupt) Medicare (60 trillon in the red from what I have been reading not to sure if is accurate.)

A reform is fine a true reform you know... Like this for example.
1.) Insurance Companies can no longer discriminate against people with pre exsiting conditions or age.

2.) I think people who are frequent vistors to hospitals and there is nothing wrong with should pay higher preiums,

3.) Millions of dollar lawsuits against doctors is a no go. If the doctor screws you up he should pay for it, lets face if you only make 45000 a year but can go back to work then you shouldnt get 30 MIL settlement.

4.) PHARMA companies your time is done pills will only the cost how much it makes to produce them and research them.... with a little buffer for profit. 55c a pill not 4.76c.

Do a search on these items below and tell me if you or anyone of you who are pro-health care bill still want it?

The VA is "private" it is for veterans who have been injured in the line of duty, and need continued care for there service connected disability... The vet shouldn’t have to pay for it the government should.

Social Security the feds take 145 dollars out of my check each pay period I could in turn take that money and invest it else where to where it would actually make me money instead of the government taking it and spending it elsewhere and I don’t collect any interest on it.... if I die my survivors get a limited amount of it... What is the deal with that?


Medicare the same as SS I could take that money and put it into a long-term money market or mutual fund and use it for my health care when I retire. And again when I die that money is forfeited to the government and my family never sees it.

Not to mention the Military whos tricare budget for retirees and soldiers is almost 1/3 of there budget.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
AND, this is different from the FOR-PROFIT Health Insurance Companies denying needed medical care and dropping patients rather than paying claims.....this is different how, again???


This is basically how I feel about everything.

Current system: SUCKS.

Proposed system: SUCKS.

Then we see:


WASHINGTON – The nation's drugmakers stand ready to spend $150 million to help President Barack Obama overhaul health care this fall, according to numerous officials, a staggering sum that could dwarf attempts to derail his chief domestic priority.


news.yahoo.com...

Yikes!

It drives me nuts to see people bash the way things currently are but praise Obama's plan. It also drives me nuts for people to bash Obama's plan but praise the way things currently are.

It seems liberals want to hail Obama's plan and conservatives want to hail the current system. The sooner we can drop our bias and acknowledge they both SUCK, the sooner we can get on with things.

Like you said, 'this is different how, again?'

It's not really. They both SUCK.

What it looks like to me is that you pointed the finger back at the current system's 'suckiness' to defend the 'suckiness' of Obama's proposal. So I have to ask why should we trade dismal for dismal. It stood out to me that instead of refuting the other poster's accusation against Obama's proposal, you simply showed how similar it was to the flaws in the current system.

Then you say the insurance companies are against 'Obamacare' yet the truth is the drug companies are for it. So we have 'big against' and 'big for.' Again, both = sucks.

If we're going to fix this, let's REALLY fix this. And not just go from 'free market dismal' to 'government regulated dismal.' Because that's all we'd really do, IMHO.

[edit on 8/11/2009 by AshleyD]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Current System = Sucky (PROBLEM)

Proposed System = Sucky (REACTION)

Actual Implemented System = ??? (SOLUTION)

I'm more inclined to believe that this current administration will feel they are the ones to make "tough decisions" regarding the current state of health care.

And by tough decisions I mean "No more un-productive members of society" leeching off the productive ones.

This will just be a means to get there foot in the door and start denying treatment/medicine to anyone considered undesirable.

Riding the wave of the current "left/right" bickering they will be able to implement a much more drastic system which IMO will finally put all there eugenics plans in motion.

BTW this thread is a great example of the problem/reaction, you're all perfect targets for their solution.

Divide & Conquer



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Yep... it's pretty much the Insurance companies who have the most to gain from stopping the health care bill.

Starred!


Although I agree with you there 100% I think there needs to be a serious look taken at this bill.

We can argue about it all day long or disagree with it but steps could be put in place to calm a good majority of the masses.

Most people get confused by the rhetoric used in the bill itself so they take the word of others that may or may not be accurate depending on how it is spun. I myself read the bill and found it to be sub par.

Everyone is so worried about this or that statement in the bill they don't stop to think maybe we could get the bill changed to accurately reflect this or that so there is no question in the end.

It's extremely vague was my first thought after reading it and at one point thought maybe I'm just misunderstanding something. However several people I've asked opinions on whom I knew would understand the bill told me it was too vague. Two of the 3 people I asked are lawyers as I thought they might be able to see something I didn't but apparently they don't.

The way it's going now these upset folks will just tick off their representatives and they will just pass the bill to show these people up which kind of stinks considering there are some valid concerns.

In the end the way the bill is worded it's no different than what we already have, only difference will be who get's the money, the govt. or the insurance company.

However then the problem arises what will be used as an exploit of the bill due to the vagueness in the first place. If it is that important of a bill in the govt.'s eyes then why are they not doing a special address to the people either through TV or other media outlets. They could then easily squash any false idea's or rumors that hold no weight what so ever.

Edit: Misread the palin article my bad lol

I don't have a problem with the govt. trying to make health care better than it is now, but I do oppose a govt. that does not give an opt in Option, and instead uses an opt out option but penalizes you for using that option.

Easy fix whom ever want's it can opt in period. Then the opt ins pay the tax. If you require hospitalization and are not opted in and do not have medical insurance then you can be billed for the cost that was covered by the govt. just like hospitals do now.

Consider it a loan from the govt. and require it to be paid back however only require a small percentage of wage vs. bill in the payment plan and no medical bankruptcy allowed on the govt. loan. Of course it would have to go a bit more in depth with this but I'm betting it would calm the masses substantially. Anyone revolting against that chances are would be directly linked to big insurance companies.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Darthorious]



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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when they categorized dementia as a terminal illness that should have medical support withdrawn, i was a bit surprised. dementia is treatable. it's not terminal.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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Fear is driving America like never before, fear of change, fear of the status quo, fear of the left, fear of the right, in short fear. Its seems for every voice of reason there are two more voices jumping at shadows and seeing a Lion in the tall grass. What is sad to me is that there are clearly Fearmongers (Disinformation agents) at work, stoking fires and they seem to enjoy the resulting anarchy as it furthers their own causes.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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Oh goody the bi weekly Palin Bash thread. I was gettin anxious.

Palin is not in politics anymore. What do you care what she has to say? Personally I'm more worried about the lies that those who are actually in office are telling us.

You guys wanted her out of office and she left and you guys just can't seem to stop posting threads with sound bites, article clips and general articles that talk about her.

She is gone, go find some other Republican figure head to pick on. The horse is dead, stop beating it.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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Look at the larger picture:

Western Medicine and Health Care does not work! The drugs used to treat symptoms, tend to create worse symptoms, which in turn are given more drugs until your body can't take it anymore!

"Cures" such as chemo are barbaric. Basically, you are poisoned by your doctors in the hope that they kill the cancer before they kill you. When the best way to eliminate the cancer in your body is to change your diet. Stop eating sugary foods, eat more alkaline foods. Avoid putting toxins in your body!

This stuff is so obvious and simple that I feel like I'm retarded for having to even type it. But I guess common sense isn't so common.

Whether or not this bill passes, it's still going to keep alternative methods that actually work abolished. Why can't everyone choose the method of treating themselves they want? It is their health, their money, and their choice? How complicated is that?!



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:21 AM
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Thanks for posting this.

I find it very hard to believe that the intelligent people posting on this site can't see that a "death panel" already exist and it's run by people who are concerned with a bottom line.......Insurance Companies.

I get the feeling that most of the nay sayers on this site assume the Obama administration is part of the NWO, Illuminati, Bilderburg, etc but isn't it possible that the Obama administration is a sincere entity within the corruption? I would recommend staying objective to allow all possibility's exist in your head instead of insisting that they have bad, selfish, or evil intentions

Also, one thing all of the "OMG ITS BEGUN" posts have in common.......They are wrapped in fear. Which is a huge flag for me. I'm not afraid of what's to come good or bad and I would suggest you shouldn't be either.

Question for you.....whats the best way to control people?

i think you know the answer. Lets start spreading positive fearlessness instead of fear propaganda which only puts those you are trying to fight in more control of more people.

The only weapon they have is fear and you are firing the gun for them.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 



I have read it and am for it. Because right now, my health care is already rationed to the point of getting none. As a disabled vet, the for-profits refuse all coverage since pretty much everything is a pre-existing condition
(and I would be a "high-cost case" nightmare). And the VA, after years of right wing budget cuts, says they are "full", whatever that means, here in Sarasota. Support for the troops evidently ends upon discharge. Next month I will celebrate (not really) forty years of being in a wheelchair. And I can't get a freakin' flu shot. I see the teabaggers and town hall protesters as saying directly to me, "Screw you, I've got mine." I wonder if any of them would trade a new wheelchair for two purple hearts and a DFC.. I guess I'll have to wait a couple of years for Medicare to kick in.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by flysse
 


dunno but seems alternative meds are under attack as well. like i treat my own diabetes with diet and stuff from the health food store. i don't take insulin or the little pills the doc gives for it. but this may also be at risk. i like chinese medicine. i like natural cures. not saying meds are not important but i like the option.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by 4nsicphd
 


EEK! are you serious?! i will talk to hubby about this. i had no idea they were doing that to our disabled vets!



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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well check this out:

Study finds conservatives more easily startled




Study finds conservatives more easily startled

The study indicates that people who are frightened by scary images and flinch at loud noises are likely to lean conservative and often favor increased spending for the military and support the death penalty and the Iraq war.

Those who are less easily startled likely will lean toward liberal stances and typically favor relaxed immigration policies, gun control and more spending on aid to foreign countries, the study indicated.


even though it's not 100% scientifically correct it's still funny to see how true this is. people running scared all the time don't like any kind of change even if they are suffering. "just say no!"



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by 4nsicphd
 


EEK! are you serious?! i will talk to hubby about this. i had no idea they were doing that to our disabled vets!


They don't.

The VA he is near might not be able to see him, but he is free to go to another one. Granted he may have to travel a little.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by DarkSecret
 


you don't seriously believe that stuff do you? like the one where the red states and areas were considered lower IQ ? some of those states had mammoth cities in them that apparently missed the bus when the brains were handed out, while a neighboring but primarily blue city was filled with intelligent, progressive thinkers.

first thing ya do when you want to rid yourself an irritating person is to dehumanize the person. how do you do that? by dreaming up all the ways in which they are "less than you"

is it any wonder how these things get out of hand? history is your best teacher.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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The whole question is moot anyway...The Federal Bankster Government is collapsing under it's own unsupportable weight...

It's interesting to read partisan apologists argue for more government spending when individual income tax receipts are down 22 percent from a year ago and corporate income taxes are down 57 percent..... the biggest single-year decline since the Great Depression.....AND while the federal deficit balloons to a record $1.8 trillion.

Meanwhile, taxpayers are already on the hook for trillions in social security, medicare and medicaid......all which, due to demographics, are already bankrupt, or will be shortly...

And really, all politicians are responsible for the unavoidable outcome, regardless of political affiliation...the sooner you realize that both parties are just different families in the same Bankster led crime syndicate, the sooner we can set things right again....



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by 4nsicphd
 


I am also a vet, who gets treatment at my local VA, The wait line is long to even see a doctor... And there are options out there for you, you should contact a case manager and you will get what you need. I dont see how you cant get a flu shot when they have open shot seasons for any Disabled Vet.. BTW I work at my local VA as well. Did you receive your injuries on Active Duty? If you did you should be taking care of... and have first priorty at federal jobs....

And the so called "Right Wing" Cuts diddnt happen, money is directed to the VA Hospitals with the most patients so VA administrators want as many vets as they can get into there system for more money..... Maybe you should call them...



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by 4nsicphd
 


EEK! are you serious?! i will talk to hubby about this. i had no idea they were doing that to our disabled vets!


I'm as serious as a heart attack, which, fortunately, I haven't had yet. And we Vietnam era guys are better off than the kids coming home now, what with their traumatic amputations, TBIs, and untreated PTSD. Most of us are nearing Medicare age.And it's going to get worse. 22,000 VA staff positions have been cut since 1994. Primary care docs are leaving the VA en masse as a result of the doctors' perceived diminishment of care. 20,000 acute care beds in VA facilities have been eliminated. At a time of increased need, admissions into VA facilities are being reduced by 25,000 per year.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297
The section embodies what will be called "end of life" mandates.


And who will be calling it that?



Section 1233 of the health-care bill would pay doctors to give Medicare patients end-of-life counseling every five years -- or sooner if the patient gets a terminal diagnosis.


Yes. Read this carefully. It will pay the doctors instead of the patients paying for it. In other words, it's "covered". So, if you want to talk with your doctor about end-of-life issues, such as a living will, hospice, life support machines, etc., it's COVERED. The doctor will be paid by the government. Most of today's insurance companies don't pay for this service. It's left for the patient to pay if he wants this counseling.

You're listening to the fear tactics. Congratulations. Palin's fear-mongering hooked you in.




The doctor "shall" discuss "advanced care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to"; "an explanation of . . . living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses" (even though these are legal, not medical, instruments); and "a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families."


Shame on the doctors for helping these people who may have NO ONE else to talk to about such issues! And shame on the government for making this service available to seniors! On a voluntary basis! They should be left in the dark or have to pay for it themselves! They should have to pay a lawyer to get this information! Greedy seniors!



The doctor "shall" explain that Medicare pays for hospice care (hint, hint).


Do you know what hospice care is? My mother had hospice care before she died. Fortunately, we asked about it. It was a HUGE burden lifted off the family! It was a blessing.



Who belongs on "a list" of helpful "resources"? Jack Kevorkian?


Oh, Lord!


On the thread topic, I thought it was lovely how Palin used her Down's Syndorme baby to really drive the emotional point home about her "death panels". She's got some real morals there...


[edit on 11-8-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]





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