Growing Civil Unrest In England

Originally posted by thecrow001
thanks for this link

i will read what i can and consider buying it.

I just got done watching the guy's speech. It was pretty boring.

Seek out speeches/video by Mark Steyn for his book "American Alone: It's the End of the World As We Know it"

He's more entertaingin. You can find his speech at the Heritage Foundation site.

Originally posted by phoenix103
Hearsay, no facts, no evidence. For all we know your friend started it. What do you want people who are rational to think based on one sentence? Of one persons "friends" side of a story?

The criminal justice system wouldn't accept that and nor should we.

Oh, when someone else says something you don't like, it's "hearsay" with no evidence, but it's not "hearsay" when you brand anyone who votes BNP as illterate, mindless thugs, despite 1 million people voting for them?

Kind of got yourself twisted in knots there....

Originally posted by phoenix103
Most people in the UK find her views pretty reprehensible.

Hmmm..I didn't realise I had elected you as my representative. I personally have never heard of her and neither has any of the 20 or so people I am currently sat in a room with.

More "hearsay", I think...

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by phoenix103
Most people in the UK find her views pretty reprehensible.

Hmmm..I didn't realise I had elected you as my representative. I personally have never heard of her and neither has any of the 20 or so people I am currently sat in a room with.

More "hearsay", I think...

She's everything phonenix would hate.. A UK Zionist Jew.

www.spectator.co.uk...

As an American who keeps a close watch on UK news, my impression is as follows: The British ruling class is totally detached from the needs of the ordinary people. I'm not just speaking of idle aristocrats (although that's an issue) but also the people in government who, even if not titled, seem to come from "good familes" or be educated at Eton/Harro and Oxford/Cambridge, etc.

Thus, England is still plagued by a deep class system. America, too, has its form of "aristocracy," but there is still more fluidity among the classes than in the UK, where the system is basically fossilized.

This upper level of elites is so secure in their positions that they have totally lost touch with the realities of daily life. Thus, they play with ideas like extreme political correctness, survalience, depopulation, etc. almost as an abstract game or idle passtime...because for them, it actually IS. They are insulated from the results of their actions and thus they act out of a kind of abstract idealism, twisted though it may be.

For example, they are surrounded by estates, antiques, old English rituals, etc. These things seem solid to them, so they can't see any threat in actions that are eroding the basis of what it means to be English. Therefore, the extreme politcal correctiness in the UK is actually a form of deep arrogance, whereby they are saying in their minds, "mass immigration and extreme Islamification could not possibly assail us, because these poor, pathetic, exotic creatures from distant and fascinating cultures are so far below us. So the gentlemanly thing to do is to give them as much leeway as possible, be a good sport, give 'em a fighting chance, etc." It is monumental arrogance wrapped in a patina of "good intentions." But they don't realize its a zero sum game...what they give to one side, they take from the other in other ways.

These people also seem to have an obsession with the countryside and a hatred of "masses of people." As an ex-farmboy from a beautiful rural area, I understand the love of nature...but these people envision a world of huge parklike mannors, perhaps tended by a few forelock-tugging servile-class types, with all those stinky and bothersome other humans gone and deers and boar leaping everywhere, just like in the good old days when a Marquis could go hunting in style. I think in their aristocratic hearts, they'd love to see a world of lush, rolling mansions populated by very few members of the troubleseome "underclass."

My British brothers and sisterts: Your rulers and your rigid caste system is at the root of the problem. Get rid of these out-of-touch aristocratic relics from another era and put more "real British people" in charge of your govt and I think matters will improve. But it has already gotten pernicious over there. There is mass hysteria, almost witchunt-like (the arrest of schoolchildren on playgrounds), and camera survalience everywhere. Please stand up for your beautiful country!

reply to post by silent thunder


Sorry chap, your assessment of our "class structure" is quite off. The vast majority of the ruling Labour Party are from working class/Union backgrounds. The PM himself is the son of a methodist preacher and went to the University of Edinburgh, former deputy PM John Prescott is as working class as you get!

The problem we have is not with the "aristocrats" (of which very few remain with anywhere near the money or influence they once had), but with big businesses having undue influence over policy, over and above what the people want.

This has caused our Government to sell off, close and totally gut our heavy industry in order to "offshore", which favours businesses bottom lines and also to engratiate ourselves into the European "family", which only benefits businesses and not the common man on the street.

Also, the Government has no fear of the electorate. They (Labour) have passed more laws in the past ten years of being in power than the Tories ever did during their 18 odd years in power. Most of these have eroded the civil liberties that were once the bedrock of our country.

It comes as no surprise to find out that Lord Mandleson (the disgraced fromer MP brought back into the fold as an unelected Minister by Gordon Brown) once attended a Soviet sponsored Youth movement held in Cuba, Havana.

Adding into the myriad of anti-freedom Laws Labour have passed is the very real policiticising of the Police force. Where once had a Police Chief commented on Government policy or tried to influence law changes they would have been shot down immediately, now hardly a week goes by without the Met Chief commenting on political matters, the legal status of Cannabis being a good example. The G20 protests is another symptom of a political police force.

reply to post by stumason


Well, you sure put me in my place. I stand corrected, kind sir.

However, we see stuff like Prince Charles saying he wants a mosque installed in Buckingham palace, or the leader of the Anglican Church proposing "limited" Sharia Law in certain places and I can only draw the conclusion that those with "cultural power" are simply tossing it away.

This may all be true, but nevertheless you make a good case that the real techtonic action is being caused by corporate interests, money, etc...and isn't it aways?

Still, I can't help feel that this is a "culture war" in a very real sense, so what people in academia, the church, and ancient institutions like the royal family does means a lot. Instead of trying to shore up their own ancient and admirable culture, it looks like they are taking every opportunity to toss out every baby with all the bathwater they can find. These people should be symbols and rallying points for the revival and strengthening of UK traditional culture.

Originally posted by phoenix103
Neither. I don't have an ignore list, would never add someone just for disagreeing with them.

Glad to hear it!

Originally posted by phoenix103
Problem is, you are in an entrenched position, I know it well, i remember thinking similar to you in some regards in the past.

Funny that, because I used to think similar to you in the past.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
The book I'm reading 'Reflections on the Revolution in Europe' spelled it out in plain language.... all of the Multi-Culti's who claim to be seeing racism everywhere are in effect reverse-Xenophobes.

Thanks for the recommendation. Interesting point abour being reverse-Xenophobes. Never thought of it like that before but it makes a lot of sense. It is often claimed that 'Britain has no culture to speak of'. Perhaps those who would see Britain's culture replaced by foreign ones are actually people who have a deep, subconscious yearning to be surrounded by a strong culture and have bought into the lie that British culture is itself insufficient.

Originally posted by Manouche
How come it looks like it's going out of hands in the UK ? The answer is not that you have a higher number of immigrants or muslims.

Remember - England has recently become the most densely-populated major European country. This overpopulation in itself is the cause of much frustration over immigration. And whilst France might have a higher proportion of Muslims, they're proposing to ban the Burkha, the UK is not. In short, the French government aren't afraid to say "no" to the Muslim community whilst the UK government IS afraid to say "no".


reply to post by silent thunder

You made a lot of good points. But stumason is right. The UK's political class are now the men and women who were, yesterday, the type of students who would have had a copy of 'The Communist Manifesto' sticking out of their satchel. Even the Conservative party are now essentially rid of aristocracy. Yet, at the same time, these pro-marxist politicians ARE out of touch with everyday Britain, for although they hold little in common with the country-estate types, they do still live in a world of their own. When you start looking into the left-wing connections that many of the UK's most senior politicians have, it's quite frightening. There's a link in my signature about Cultural Marxism that I think you might find interesting.

reply to post by Cythraul


What is this "British Culture" we talk of. Most weekends when i go through my town center, its filled with people of all ages men and women drunk and trapsing from one pup to another, many behaving like loons or behaving violently. Ending the evening with the great British tradition of a keebab or that British traditional meal a curry. Is that part of British Culture?

i dont drink so i feel a little left out of most of this "British Culture". I'm interested to know what the Brits on here wrapping themselves in the flag consider "British Culture" to be.

reply to post by woodwardjnr

I find it pretty distasteful to even have to do this, but here goes. Culture is language, law, values, spirituality, art, tradition.

British culture is the original languages of Britain, Christianity and the pre-Christian faiths, country pubs, respect for women, respect for animals, a general allowance of individual freedom and common decency in the great British tradition. British culture is the huge variety of rural institutions, such as Morris Dancing and the peculiar village-specific festivals. It is Christmas and halloween and Easter. It is the connection of blood and land. It is Sunday lunches and 'a man's home is is his castle'. It is certain types of architecture, certain types of art and music. It is folklore. It is history and a knowledge of it. It is tea and cake, manners and cleanliness. I could go on and on... but most of all, British culture is the secure knowledge that the British people's wishes remain of utmost significance.

That much of this (particularly in cosmpolitan urban areas) has been usurped by a materialistic, modern interpretation of culture is due in large part to the deliberate dismantling of British tradition. Research 'Frankfurt school subversion' or check out the thread in my signature about Cultural Marxism.

reply to post by Cythraul


I couldn't agree with you more!

As time goes by, all of what you said is going to slowly disappear. Most of it allready has. It can be stopped though...people who believe what you just said have to stand up and come together. Everyone who i know feels this way but they don't say anything because they mite be branded ...wait for it.. ''A Racist''!

It really is out of control! I hate seeing what was once a great country fall apart and lose its identity!


tsom87

I would argue that the demise of the British culture you speak has more to do with the insidious workings of Capitalism and greed than Marxism.

Its simple....immigration! Its out of control, allways has been! What do you think is going to happen when you let people form all different countrys in to a another country, that allready had its own identity traditions ect. Over time there are going to slowly disappear. Thats whats happened in the UK, England has been hit the hardest. LOL i would be seen as a Racist if i said this in the street! Thats who friggin bad it has become!


Tsom87

Civil Unrest is probably coming. What is vital is that it does not happen. The quote:

If we don't riot, Labour are likely to be obliterated in a general election.
If we do riot, there won't be one.
Source

Civil Unrest is being engineered. The police have become the states protection unlike before. We also now have the Civil Contingencies act which could be activated.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I would argue that the demise of the British culture you speak has more to do with the insidious workings of Capitalism and greed than Marxism.

That's a fair point. Capitalism ties in with materialism, and I'd say capitalism came first. There's no doubt, and I'll fully admit, that a large section of the British public are guilty of surrendering their ancestral culture all too easily. There is a lot that must be reclaimed. However, I also believe that this all-purveying globalist agenda has a vested interest in eradicating culture in order to make their new world transformation work. Therefore Britain (and much of Europe) has had its culture subversively pushed away without even knowing it.


reply to post by TSOM87

You're right! The "R" word is used too liberally and incorrectly. It has proven an incredibly effective tool to silence the opposition.

Ultimately, most of this argument and debate is going around in circles. But whatever way you look at it, it's evolution.

We can all say what is good and bad about our countries.

Personally, I do agree that we need tighter controls on immigration, simply because it's practical.

But at the same time, we need to stop meddling in other countries, giving them loans they can't pay back, forcing industry laws on them that will encourage the economic collapse of their own country, fighting pointless wars in their back yards...

Why do people come to the UK? For survival.
Why do they need to leave their own country for survival? Primarily because wealthy countries bully and attack them in several ways until their economy is weakened and we reap the profits.
Through international trade agreements and global industry we allow corporations to take advantage of us and other countries simultaneously. In order for the wealthy to become more wealthy, the poor become poorer, and that forces people to migrate to better economies.

People in this country have several major issues when it comes to immigration;

People complain about employment, but the same people are happy to see a multi national company move their call centre to India. The same people are happy to buy clothes for less made by a child earning 50p a day in a sweat shop. The same people are happy to eat imported food when it could just as easily be grown in UK soil and provide a wealth of employment in rural communities.

On housing, the people who complain about the lack of housing and blame immigration never seem to blame their own sisters, daughters and mothers for getting pregnant every other year. They never seem to blame their local authorities for selling off stock to the highest bidder to be rented out one room at a time at a massive profit. They never seem to complain that thousands of properties remain empty for years through beurocratic inaction.

And those who suggest that immigrants to the UK live off of our benefit system clearly never take a walk through a Job Centre. The vast (and I mean VAST!) majority are white, British men. Go to any housing estate and you'll find thousands of white, British girls with several kids living off of the benefit system.

With crime, people like to blame "foreigners" and conveniently ignore the millions of chav scum in the UK who go out every weekend, get hammered in the clubs and then get into fights in the street.
They conveniently forget that the majority of violent crime in this country is in the populated cities where gang culture is on the rise, and that such gangs are made up of British teenagers.
Go to any prison in the UK and assess the population, and I'll bet you any money you like that the majority will be British born men aged 18 to 40.

Go to any A&E department on a Fri or Sat night and the majority will be pissed-up British, white citizens aged 18 to 40 who got into a fight at a club.

In all of the above situations, where are our immigrant friends? They're at home, looking after their families, or they're at work, supporting their families.

Blaming things on immigration simply isn't as easy as parties like the BNP pretend. It's a simplistic and idiotic method of disguising xenophobia and nothing more.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Why do they need to leave their own country for survival? Primarily because wealthy countries bully and attack them in several ways until their economy is weakened and we reap the profits.
Through international trade agreements and global industry we allow corporations to take advantage of us and other countries simultaneously. In order for the wealthy to become more wealthy, the poor become poorer, and that forces people to migrate to better economies.

So why do so many of these immigrants and their offspring wish to turn the UK into a replica of the #hole they have escaped from?

And why is India, a point of origin for many immigrants into the UK in the past, a booming economy and probably the next world superpower?
Surely if we had exploited them so much they would not be in such a position.

People complain about employment, but the same people are happy to see a multi national company move their call centre to India.

No they are not.
Those jobs should be the UK and people are frustrated at the confusion that arrives through poor connections and the language barrier.

The same people are happy to buy clothes for less made by a child earning 50p a day in a sweat shop.

I don't think so, it disgusts me personally, but that's just my opinion.

The same people are happy to eat imported food when it could just as easily be grown in UK soil and provide a wealth of employment in rural communities.

Unfortunately UK farming is governed by the abhorent and unjust EU quota's policy; a completely seperate arguement and one I would like to see here on ATS some time.

On housing, the people who complain about the lack of housing and blame immigration never seem to blame their own sisters, daughters and mothers for getting pregnant every other year. They never seem to blame their local authorities for selling off stock to the highest bidder to be rented out one room at a time at a massive profit. They never seem to complain that thousands of properties remain empty for years through beurocratic inaction.

The UK's housing problems can be traced back to Thatcher's policy of selling off council housing and the failure to build new one's.
This caused spiralling house prices and subsequently the problems we face today.
I agree, inept management by local authorities has also helped contribute.

And those who suggest that immigrants to the UK live off of our benefit system clearly never take a walk through a Job Centre. The vast (and I mean VAST!) majority are white, British men. Go to any housing estate and you'll find thousands of white, British girls with several kids living off of the benefit system.

I would tend to agree with you except I have heard as a reason or justification for discontent amongst 'disadvantaged' Muslim communities the high level of unemployment they have.
Sorry, but can't have it both ways.
Which is it?

With crime, people like to blame "foreigners" and conveniently ignore the millions of chav scum in the UK who go out every weekend, get hammered in the clubs and then get into fights in the street.
They conveniently forget that the majority of violent crime in this country is in the populated cities where gang culture is on the rise, and that such gangs are made up of British teenagers.
Go to any prison in the UK and assess the population, and I'll bet you any money you like that the majority will be British born men aged 18 to 40.

Or roam their own communities enforcing 'Muslim only' areas?
Or dealing in heroin and crack?
Or partaking in honour killings and other barbaric acts?

Go to any A&E department on a Fri or Sat night and the majority will be pissed-up British, white citizens aged 18 to 40 who got into a fight at a club.

True, we do like to fight.

In all of the above situations, where are our immigrant friends? They're at home, looking after their families, or they're at work, supporting their families.

Blaming things on immigration simply isn't as easy as parties like the BNP pretend. It's a simplistic and idiotic method of disguising xenophobia and nothing more.

Recently The Sun, yes I know The Sun??, published details of Britains 20 most wanted....nearly half were from Eastern Europe.
www.thesun.co.uk...
Coincidence?
Racism?

Did you know that prostitution in London is now controlled by Albanian organised crime.

Your portrayal of immigrants as perfect and model citizens is naive at best and downright insulting at worst.



[edit on 24/8/09 by Freeborn]

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Ultimately, most of this argument and debate is going around in circles. But whatever way you look at it, it's evolution.

I believe I've asked you this before but received no answer: the fact that you have an anti-Israel link in your signature might suggest that you are either Muslim yourself, or pro-Islam. Is this true?

And no, it's not 'evolution'. Evolution is natural. There's nothing natural about a government acting contrary to the people's wishes. Common, yes, but not natural.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
But at the same time, we need to stop meddling in other countries

"We"? Unless you hadn't noticed, our western governments are rogue and do terrible things in the name of our countries. Our meddling in middle eastern countries is NOT in my name, nor the name of the vast majority of Britons. Therefore, it is not something "we" should be paying for.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
And those who suggest that immigrants to the UK live off of our benefit system clearly never take a walk through a Job Centre. The vast (and I mean VAST!) majority are white, British men. Go to any housing estate and you'll find thousands of white, British girls with several kids living off of the benefit system.

Your post exemplifies a classic anti-British stance. You start by indicating a belief in equality, and end by using factual mistruths to portray the native population as 'the problem'.

Regarding jobseekers: according to this set of statistics, approximately 72% of jobseekers claimants are white British, whilst white Britons officially make up 92% of the population (though I doubt that, probably more like 80-85%). Still, you can see that a smaller percentage of white Britons take up jobseekers allowance than non-whites. What you've personally observed in job centres is largely dependent on the specific area that you live.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by silent thunder

 

The problem we have is not with the "aristocrats" (of which very few remain with anywhere near the money or influence they once had), but with big businesses having undue influence over policy, over and above what the people want.

This ^^

Nail on the proverbial head.

Essentially it's all about profit. Corporate control, the erosion of small business and company policies telling us exactly how we should live our lives.

We are also bombarded with crap on a daily basis, from anything from media head lines putting the fear of god into us, to subliminal messaging telling us exactly what we should wear, eat and drink.

The younger generation are clueless, the older generations are too distant. Leaving a bloody big void that can only be filled by a materialistic - temporary refuge from the daily grind of UK life.

Our youth are trained NOT to think but to absorb. The corporate bastards that control our world are changing us from humans to consumers. If we speak out about it, we get labelled 'loonies' or 'terrorists' or 'racists' or any other negative tag.

Essentially cheaper labour is forcing the hard workers out of work, tie that in with the orchestrated recession and the myriad wars that are taking place around the world and people just don't know what is happening.

The tories screwed us over, then labour kicked us when we were down. Back and forth between idiot and fool.

And then... On top of all of this. We have NO privacy, we are watched every where we go... We pay out of our arses on TAX for food, clothing, and household essentials....

And then the BIG companies take on foreign labour and we are not even allowed to feel bad by the fact some of us are forced out of jobs.

Welcome to Corporate Britain...

reply to post by mr-lizard

Very well-put Mr Lizard. Starred. We're living in a hellish situation, and this is why unrest will dominate the coming years.

"Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad"

In this case, corporations are synonymous with 'gods'.