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Growing Civil Unrest In England

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posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by YourForever
 


lol Sharia courts, how scary! Untill you realize that infact they are set up to deal with Muslim civil cases, in exactly the same way that Judge Judy is set up to deal with Redneck/Chav civil cases!

The Arbitration Act 1996 was created to releave pressure on the legal system and save the country some money, Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

We actually have a history of this sort of thing too,


Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Yes the system isn't perfect, however neither is our own - just look around ATS for as many examples as you like
Hopefully muslim women will learn quickly that in britain they can break from tradition and have a fair trial under our system, this will forse the courts to modernize in time. We can't expect the rest of the world to switch to our morals overnight, after all it took years of protests and women throwing themselves under horses before we even let women vote! These changes take time but they are happening and much faster then you might think, after all the loudest voices are always the most exstream opinions.

You don't need to worry that your hand is gonna get cut off next time you steal a loaf of bread, our system hasn't been eroded at all -if anything it's been made more flexable and modern by this act.




posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


Actually i have been dealing with your core points but whatever, i'll go back and deal with some more...



Though anyone with half a brain knows that illegal invasions and oil theft are not the will of ordinary Britons. Or if it is, it's because we've been brainwashed into supporting it.


Indeed that might be true, however is it not also as true that anyone with half a brain knows that civilian casualtys and terror bombings are not the will or ordinary muslims? or if it is, it's because they've been brainwashed into supporting it.

haha, of course in both cases it's only partly true... We ALL support the british governments illigal oil wars, even those of us that have stood outside parliment holding a sign saying "NOT IN MY NAME!" we all help the government by helping the country, the money we all make feeds into 'the system' which is of course controlled by 'the man' - we let 'the man' make the rules he chooses, thus companies like heckler and kosh, BAE Systems, etc can make huge profits selling guns to both sides of every war on the planet. The nonsense copyright and patent laws we created and enforce globaly (through all manor of terrible and evil sanctions, trade embargos, etc) again alow the west to control and manipulate the rest of the world.

We are as guilty of the illigal oil wars as the average muslim is for the twin towers (or whatever terrorist acts you believe they've done if you feel that Bush blew up the towers) - If you want muslims to understand that you aren't a minion of the great satan working tirelessly to suppress and rob them, then you my friend must be willing to accept that they are not all fudamental terrorists who hate our freedom.

- I'm a little confused which talking point i missed, maybe you would be so kind as to tell me which central argument i should be considering?



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 



Not seen this thread before...

But I live in the UK, and only a couple of miles from Luton.

Luton is a racism hotspot, we've seen it several times.

I despise the BNP and everything they stand for. They do not represent the people of this country. They represent a hateful and ignorant few, an uneducated minority of fascist idealists.

There is little racist violence going on in this country, and little of what you state to be happening. So I can only assume that you raise this issue in the way that you do for a political reason.

The claim that these groups are simply against "extremism" is ludicrous in itself. How do you identify extremism? Is every Muslim a potential extremist and therefore should be removed from our country? (in public forums these thugs won't say that, but in private discussion that's exactly what they think!)
How is a protest against extremism directed? At a random group of shoppers in a predominantly multi-ethnic community? Yeah, that makes complete sense doesn't it?


The BNP and groups of white, angry, violent men are pushed out of almost every community when they try to do absolutely anything. They are not respected and their views are abhorred by the vast majority of intelligent people.
I know this, because I've seen it happen in my own city.

I've met many racist thugs in my years, mainly through work (they don't last long in our company), and they do have a lot in common. They often are avid football fans (that doesn't mean all football fans are thugs, just that the majority of racist thugs actually are), always of low intelligence, and often not able to think about immigration beyond the idiotic response of "this is our country!"
They repeat tabloid headlines as though they are fact, they cite falsehoods spread by parties like the BNP as though they are gospel without actually considering the statistics and facts behind them.

There is one predominant issue that I always like to raise when it comes to immigration and how it's "destroying our country", and that is that the vast majority of people in this country "sponging off the state" are white, British born citizens who cannot be bothered to work.

Where is the condemnation of all the white, British teenage mothers popping out kids? Where is the argument about white, British fathers who pay nothing to support said kids and then go off and have another? Where is the discussion about white, British men who simply refuse to work because they would rather be down the pub?

They are what is wrong with this country.

I'll admit that I was unemployed once. And I was lazy as a young man. But I can tell you now, I could have walked into any job centre and had a job the next day, if I had been willing to struggle for a couple of months. And that is eventually what I did.
The idea that immigration is preventing white, British people from working is a complete fabrication. The jobs are there (or were when I was looking) but people were just lazy and seemed to "expect" to be given more, as if they had a right to it.

You see, we have the same situation in the UK as they have in the US. Who will be doing all the jobs that white, British people refuse to do if immigration ends?

I fear the rise of Fascism in the UK almost as much as I fear World War 3.
I will not let it happen, and I will be on the front line with all the "Muslim extremists" (as you put it), gay rights protesters, immigrants and left-wing liberals when I see any racist party trying to steal leadership with blatant propaganda and fake stories of "racial tension".

Thugs will not take control of this country as Hitler did in Germany, and if they try, there will be millions of people marching in the streets ready to remove this scum from our country.

I don't care if a person was born here or not, that means little to me, but those who threaten to take us down THAT path will be dealt with quickly, and for all to see.

Destroy the BNP!



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


It was never about racist violence. If you control demographics you take over a country without a shot. The Koran instructs them on this point quite nicely, and insists it is their duty to do so.

I don't expect any serious racial violence and if it occurs then in all likelihood by frustrated whites. We agree on that point. What you patently fail to understand is that if they wanted to integrate, they would do!

There is a long road ahead and they are gathering confidence with every step. Enforcement amongst themselves of sexist and oppressive Islamic custom is getting increasingly stricter. Most Muslims are too terrified to speak out. And as predicted years ago, their customs are being gradually imposed on non-Muslim whites. If you have not noticed, you are blind or willfully ignorant. Perhaps you would like to prove me wrong by spending some time in certain streets of certain cities where Islamic youth gangs shout "this is Pakistan!". This is the future of Britain, and doormats like you are the enablers. When they have a voting majority it will be too late to object.

As to the previous poster and his treasonous support of Sharia law, nothing more needs to be said...



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
Destroy the BNP!


Your intolerance of legitimate political party is fascist in and of itself. What is next for you and your "muslim extremist" friends? The very fact you have aggressive tendencies toward British citizens who exercise their right to vote in a way you do not like speaks volumes. Hitlerian? I'd certainly say so.

Your Hitler example also shows the relative lack of intellect and education on your part. You do know, there were British WW2 Veterans campaigning for the BNP recently? I suppose you would like express your bubbling anger to the faces of the 80 and 90 year old men who secured our right to democracy? I'd pay to see that, fascist.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by YourForever
reply to post by detachedindividual
 


It was never about racist violence. If you control demographics you take over a country without a shot. The Koran instructs them on this point quite nicely, and insists it is their duty to do so.





posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by YourForever

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Destroy the BNP!


Your intolerance of legitimate political party is fascist in and of itself. What is next for you and your "muslim extremist" friends? The very fact you have aggressive tendencies toward British citizens who exercise their right to vote in a way you do not like speaks volumes. Hitlerian? I'd certainly say so.

Your Hitler example also shows the relative lack of intellect and education on your part. You do know, there were British WW2 Veterans campaigning for the BNP recently? I suppose you would like express your bubbling anger to the faces of the 80 and 90 year old men who secured our right to democracy? I'd pay to see that, fascist.


Nice try.


My sentiment against the BNP is in direct response to their hateful and violent opinions as a party.
Did I say how to destroy them? No. We can do it legally and within a political framework.
Destruction is an "end", it doesn't have to be illegal, forced or violent.

Regarding a lack of intellect, I am well aware of what is happening in my country, and no random poster on a forum will convince me that something exists when it doesn't.
I couldn't care less what a Veteran campaigns for politically. You can be racist from any way of life. But I would also like to see some proof of this, just out of interest.
If they do exist, I'm guessing those Veterans have not seen the footage of Nick Griffin denying the Nazi horrors of WWII?

This is nothing more than an attempt to create a race war in the UK, you and yours fail miserably in that regard. It's failed several times before, and it'll fail again.

Dress up racism and xenophobia in whatever disguise you like, giving it a smart suit changes nothing.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


There was no try, you are blatently fascist in your intolerance of democracy when it does not suit you.

You are entitled to your own opinions, and I bet we could go in circles with them for a long time. But not your own facts. You have not even attempted to address any that were put forward. You speak as if your interests are in the cultural and politically correct destruction of Britain, you fail to realize you are being had by the propaganda and spin fed to you by your own side.

Furthermore, you continue your sweeping insults of British voters. You are obsessed with playing the race card to obfuscate our point that this is about religion. Hitler would like your style.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by YourForever
 


Firstly can i say that if you really want to beat them on demographics you have two options, a 'final solution' or go get laid.

Birth and Death rates vary wildly through out history, in modern times the number of children had by the average family has fallen - at the same time the live expectancy has risen dramatically, along with the fertile period of a womans life (woman as old as 60 having kids due to IVF) - Certain times have seen huke spikes in birthrates, the babyboom generation is testiment to this, because its a number tied in complex ways to socioeconomic factors - basically the numbers change wildly, infact recently the rate of births in the uk has started to rise again after the late 80's and 90's - presumably because 'generation X' never managed to connect in a meaningful way with society and form family units.

It is foolish to try and predict long term changes in fertility rates from short ranges of data, it's like saying that the temp has been rising rapidly in the hour since dawn so by midnight it's going to be 12000 degrees!

Basing the future predictions on the past is also foolish, consider the industrial revolution - no one could have predicted at the start how everything would turn out, not in a meaningful way - we are going through one of the most intense industrial revolutions right now, the development of computers and robotics has pushed the pace of progress to amazing new hights. It's actually likely that the size of the workforce will continue to keep falling, one man and a hundred machines doing the job whole towns couldn't manage 100 years before and thats before you consider the rapid reorganization of distribution networks due to the internet, modern production methods (rapid 3d plastic forming, etc)....

I could go on and on about the changing world but i'm sure you get the point, it's different than it used to be. This tide of brown people that we've heard so much about in the last few hundred years is just a silly boggyman racists pull out of the closet to defend their otherwise abhorant world view.

Basically you don't like the fact that if you want to do well in the world you have to actually work hard and do something, you kinda like the idea that the rich west just dominates and subjugates the rest of the world and gets fat supping off the cream - well it's not going to work any longer, if indeed it ever did. Stop moaning about everyone else and do your bit to make the world worth living in, maybe if we hadn't turned the middle east into such a dam hellhole in the first place trying to steal their oil then they wouldn't want to come and live over here!

The world is FULL of white people, we are all over the place having kids and getting on with life, sure if you want to obsess on fudged numbers then worry that we'll be gone in 7 generations all you like - useing it as an excuse to make the world that little bit worse just isn't going to wash though.

If anything as one of the most advanced nations in the world, and one of the most guilty for messing it all up, we in england need to take a lead in showing the world how clever, dignified and good people act! Maybe, just maybe those 2nd generation muslims will look at our society and think, wow i wan't to be like them for truely they are what god would want his people to be like!


You say,


if they wanted to integrate, they would do!

it's interesting that you say such here on ATS, after all is this site's main focus on the many, many problems within our society? We are at war with most of the middle east for very, very shady reasons - everyone knows it's a war for oil, an illigal war for oil started on false pretences to further the aims of big business. Thousands if not millions of innocent arabs have died as 'collateral damage' when we drop massive bombs out of the sky... You think they should sign up and support this terrible thing?

I say if a human lives in our great free nation then let them live free, free to make up their own mind on political and moral issues. Should they break the law then they get the same punishment as anyone else (even in civil cases where anyone is able to choose to have their special court, a legaly binding survivalist court for your compound maybe, should you choose to abide by it)

The arab world and the western world will learn to live together in peace (arrive at a stalemate), the developing arab world will then have the same birth rate drop we've had and everything will balance out.



Perhaps you would like to prove me wrong by spending some time in certain streets of certain cities where Islamic youth gangs shout "this is Pakistan!".

Wow the youths are shouting nonsence, how scary! im my area the kids have a gang called [village name] Army - they spray it all over the place, I don't think this means that i now live in a despotic republic ruled by the under 15's - it's silly childish bigging up the posse. It's likely that a group of people, a miniority, will form a community - shared experience is one of the most common things in frendship. In a world as repressive and false as England the majority of people actually consider themselves counterculture (how weird is that?) - be it hiphop, punk, indy, emo or whatever most people try to fixate onto something outside the current status quo, mostly because the current status quo is a horrible, horrible evil thing - so yes, in areas with racial tension (due to bnp idiots no doubt) it is likely that groups of asian kids are more likely to stick together and identify with islam rather than the british colonial system.

Learning the ins and outs of british life is complex, especially when many people do their up most to make it hard for you, ever notice how every 'walk about' is full of ozies and kiwis? even our closest forign relatives need time to get together with people they understand and who understand them, i've done the same when abroud for long stretches of time - it's good to find a traditional irish theam pub and let flow with the slang talk every now and then.

The muslims who come over here have to work very hard, spend most of their time jumping through hoops to get the relivent paperwork, etc plus they're bringing up a horde of kids - when do you expect them to find the time to intergrate?

what does intergrate even mean?

they have to dress like me, or you? they're meant to switch religions to anglicanism or athism? do they have to watch football or can they join me in a reading and study of esoteric world literature? should they join the majority of english people who oppose the war or are they suppose to swallow government propghanda?

haha well one thing i'm sure you don't want to see them joining in with - singing out national hymn! Good lord can you imagine it,

Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In Englands green & pleasant Land.

THEY WANT TO BUILD WHAT? WHERE? YE GADS!



As to the previous poster and his treasonous support of Sharia law, nothing more needs to be said...

Oh gosh, me? you mean when i debunked your alarmist nonsense with good hard facts and a solid understanding of the british legal system? indeed, nothing more needs to be said - unless maybe you wanted to refute what i said, then you would need an argument and some evidence



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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Intresting thread and some of it very true!
S&F



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 06:02 AM
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posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by NatureBoy
anyone with half a brain knows that civilian casualtys and terror bombings are not the will or ordinary muslims?

I agree. WHICH IS WHY THESE DEMONSTRATIONS ARE NOT AGAINST ORDINARY MUSLIMS. Why must I keep repeating that? Any assumptions you've made about these demonstrations targetting "ordinary Muslims" are just that - assumptions, baseless assumptions. Well, not 'baseless' if you're listening to the vile lies spewed forth by the likes of the UAF.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
We are as guilty of the illigal oil wars as the average muslim is for the twin towers (or whatever terrorist acts you believe they've done if you feel that Bush blew up the towers)

Again, I agree. See my last point. Extreme Islam DOES exist in the UK. Do you dispute that? Should men like Anjem Choudry who openly call for the UK to be Islamified be ignored?


Originally posted by NatureBoy
If you want muslims to understand that you aren't a minion of the great satan working tirelessly to suppress and rob them, then you my friend must be willing to accept that they are not all fudamental terrorists who hate our freedom

See my last two points. I'm struggling to understand why this point isn't getting through to you. Any goading that occurred between the EDL and Muslims on Birmingham has two explanations:
1) That the EDL weren't opposed to these Muslims, but when intimiated by them, did what any normal human would do and reciperocated.
2) These these Muslims who swarmed the streets of Birmingham were, despite media reports, Extremist-sympathisers.
I'm not saying either of these is fact (because unlike you, I don't make unfounded comments), but they are worthy explanations for EDL-Muslim confrontations (which, by all reports - even by the BBC - were mostly initiated by UAF/Muslim). Unless of course you're anti-democratic and you think that merely turning up to peacefully demonstrate against extremist-Islam is 'initiating trouble'.


Originally posted by detachedindividual
They do not represent the people of this country. They represent a hateful and ignorant few, an uneducated minority of fascist idealists.

Can I assume that you yourself are a Muslim? I only make this suggestion because of the anti-Israel link in your signature. Correct me if I'm wrong. Actually, the BNP represent 1 million voters as of July just gone. Are those million people all vile racists who deserve to have their democratic right stripped from them? Tell me.


Originally posted by detachedindividual
There is little racist violence going on in this country, and little of what you state to be happening. So I can only assume that you raise this issue in the way that you do for a political reason.

No. I raise this issue because, like all my forefathers before me, I intend to keep England English and to resist all threats of tyranny from outside and within. I'm happy for a relatively small community of Muslims to settle here, fully accept English laws and values and compromise where their Islamic values conflict. I'm not aligned to any one political party, just to England and Britain and its preservation.


Originally posted by detachedindividual
The claim that these groups are simply against "extremism" is ludicrous in itself. How do you identify extremism? Is every Muslim a potential extremist and therefore should be removed from our country? (in public forums these thugs won't say that, but in private discussion that's exactly what they think!)
How is a protest against extremism directed? At a random group of shoppers in a predominantly multi-ethnic community? Yeah, that makes complete sense doesn't it?

Why is the claim that these groups are simply against "extremism" ludicrous in itself? What are you basing this on? The lies spouted by the UAF? Do you deny that there are such things are moderate Muslims and extreme Muslims? If so, you are ignorant beyond belief (or perhaps standing up for your religion and community). If you do believe this, as I do, then why are you opposed to ridding this country of the extremists? Extremism is reserved for those Muslims who want to make Britain an Islamic Republic, who want to live fully according to their own non-British laws and who practice extreme interpretations of Islam such as honour-killings, circumcision and paedophilia. Any Muslim who disagrees with these things is just fine by me AND the EDL (I should imagine, not being of their group myself).


Originally posted by detachedindividual
They are not respected and their views are abhorred by the vast majority of intelligent people.

Again, the BNP were voted for by a million people. I could sit here and pull up information on just how intelligent and dignifed many of those people are but then, you only believe UAF lies don't you.


Originally posted by detachedindividual
They repeat tabloid headlines as though they are fact, they cite falsehoods spread by parties like the BNP as though they are gospel without actually considering the statistics and facts behind them.

Ironic that you should say this when most tabloid headlines are firmly anti-BNP and I can only assume that much of your hatred of the BNP is dictated to you by the media. Do you consider the facts and truth behind the anti-BNP smear stories? Doubt it. Hypocrite.


Originally posted by detachedindividual
the vast majority of people in this country "sponging off the state" are white, British born citizens who cannot be bothered to work.

This statement, and most of your post, is SO riddled with misinformation it's a hell of a task to correct it. Firstly, unemployment by ethnicity:



And according to this set of statistics, approximately 72% of jobseekers claimants are white British, whilst white Britons officially make up 92% of the population (though I doubt that, probably more like 80-85%). Still, you can see that a smaller percentage of white Britons take up jobseekers allowance than non-whites. I could probably do similar calculations with other types of allowance but it'd be a waste of my time. Point is, your misinformation is standard 'left-wing' propaganda.


Originally posted by detachedindividual
You see, we have the same situation in the UK as they have in the US. Who will be doing all the jobs that white, British people refuse to do if immigration ends?

White British people perhaps? Can you provide evidence that sufficient numbers of white British people won't do the menial jobs required to run this country?


Originally posted by detachedindividual
I will be on the front line with all the "Muslim extremists" (as you put it), gay rights protesters, immigrants and left-wing liberals when I see any racist party trying to steal leadership with blatant propaganda and fake stories of "racial tension".

So you'll be siding with the violent, anti-democratic UAF (who themselves are the most guilty of all when it comes to lies and propaganda) and Muslim extremists? You're a blight on this once-great country.


[Continued...]

[edit on 15/8/2009 by Cythraul]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
Thugs will not take control of this country as Hitler did in Germany, and if they try, there will be millions of people marching in the streets ready to remove this scum from our country.

I agree. Fascist thugs will NOT be taking control of this country (meaning you, the UAF and violent extremist-Muslims). It belongs to the British and all of the fine immigrants and non-British people who respect and love it for what it is.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
infact recently the rate of births in the uk has started to rise again after the late 80's and 90's - presumably because 'generation X' never managed to connect in a meaningful way with society and form family units.

Are these birthrates for indigenous Britons or for what the government now uniformly considers British - everyone who lives here? Indigenous British birthrates are extremely low still. The average is only heightened when immigrant birthrates are counted amongst them.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
Basing the future predictions on the past is also foolish

So you don't believe the past repeats itself? Interesting for someone who is so terrified of the return of Nazism. Nazism, this time, comes in the form of Totalitarian Marxists who will not stand to have their agenda challenged. This is why the government funds violent, fascist groups like the UAF.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
I could go on and on about the changing world but i'm sure you get the point, it's different than it used to be. This tide of brown people that we've heard so much about in the last few hundred years is just a silly boggyman racists pull out of the closet to defend their otherwise abhorant world view.

The groups relevant to this thread ARE NOT RACIST!!!!!! They want England to remain English. This is the homeland of the ethnic English after all. It's not about needing someone to blame for unrelated problems. It's about preserving England and not standing by while it is changed without consent.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
The world is FULL of white people, we are all over the place having kids and getting on with life, sure if you want to obsess on fudged numbers then worry that we'll be gone in 7 generations all you like

White people worldwide are an endangered race. We are not superior, nor inferior. All races should be helped to survive, not be systematically wiped out. Or do you support total genocide?


Originally posted by NatureBoy
If anything as one of the most advanced nations in the world, and one of the most guilty for messing it all up

You keep saying Britons are guilty. Either you're self-hating, or not of British stock yourself. See, I do not take kindly to being charged with the misdemeanours of the bad people who control my country (illegitmately). Perhaps you deny the existence of a new world order who have hijacked most national governments worldwide and are NOT acting in the interests of the people who those countries belong to?


Originally posted by NatureBoy
so yes, in areas with racial tension (due to bnp idiots no doubt) it is likely that groups of asian kids are more likely to stick together and identify with islam rather than the british colonial system.

You say racial tension happens BECAUSE of the BNP. I say it's more likely that the BNP happen in those areas because of racial tension. To blame all of multicultural Britains problems on the BNP gives them far too much credit AND ignores fundamental divisions that will always be caused by religion, culture and ancestry.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
The muslims who come over here have to work very hard, spend most of their time jumping through hoops to get the relivent paperwork, etc plus they're bringing up a horde of kids - when do you expect them to find the time to intergrate?

What a strange argument. Immigrants can do what they want in this country because they're too busy prospering from the labour of other people's ancestors. You're an apologist and an anti-British one at that.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


Incase we have some poor souls who have been living under a rock, and somehow believe Islamic extremism in the UK is nothing but vicious BNP propaganda, acquaint yourself with the following.

At the end of the day, when we say innocent people we mean Muslims. As far as non-Muslims are concerned, they have not accepted Islam. As far as we are concerned, that is a crime against God. - Anjem Choudary, BBC Interview.

The Home Office say there are 1.5million Muslims but there were 1.5million ten years ago. Since then our brothers in Bethnal Green, Whitechapel and other places have had eight or nine children each. Eight children here, ten children, 15 children. There must be at least six million people. It may be by pure conversion that Britain will become an Islamic state. We may never need to conquer it from the outside. - Choudary.




Back tracking a little, you said and I quote,

"I will be on the front line with all the Muslim extremists"

"will be dealt with quickly, and for all to see"

Under what circumstances will you be on the "front line" and what do you intend to do? Please be as detailed as possible, thanks.




[edit on 15/8/09 by YourForever]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 




Interesting for someone who is so terrified of the return of Nazism


Actually i never said anything of the sort, national socialism isn't a political theory i subscribe too but i know far more about history than to belive the nonsense about the big scary nazi bogeyman. I just don't want to see a bunch of illinformed knuckleheads destroying the fabric of our global society. I believe that history is more complex than you give it credit for, things change all the time and the very structure of society has changed massively in the last hundred years - thus in this example, birth and death rates - for the reasons i covered, no i don't think that you can use the past to model the future.



ARE NOT RACIST!!!!!! They want England to remain English. This is the homeland of the ethnic English after all.

You see how wanting england to remain pure and of one race IS racist right? You know that you can't defend racism because everyone knows its stupid, so you claim not be be racist while spouting racist retoric.



White people worldwide are an endangered race. We are not superior, nor inferior. All races should be helped to survive, not be systematically wiped out. Or do you support total genocide?

no we aren't and no we shouldn't. Why should they? i did like how you tried to turn it around so that i support genocide, infact i don't - i don't want anyone killed, infact i want everyone to be free to have kids and bring them up in a fair world. This means i'm not going to tell anyone how to live not am i going to let anyone tell me how to live. Social Engeneering has never worked and will never work, the social system is just too complex for a single entitiy to control it.



You keep saying Britons are guilty. Either you're self-hating, or not of British stock yourself. See, I do not take kindly to being charged with the misdemeanours of the bad people who control my country (illegitmately). Perhaps you deny the existence of a new world order who have hijacked most national governments worldwide and are NOT acting in the interests of the people who those countries belong to?

didn't i already mention that i'm white as you like british all the way back, my grandad was a coal miner and his before him... we moved to the coal mines when everyone was being forced from the south where we had been living in the shires since before the doomsday book. I don't hate myself, i have rather alot of respect for the english, certainly in times gone past - however it does anger me when certain factions hyjack english heratage for their own aims. England has however made many mistakes and i for one as an english man am strong enough to admit that yes we have done our share of evil - we need to redress the balance and do what we can to make the world a good place for everyone, only then do we have a chance of surviveing the next few hundred years.

and yeah, actually you are guilty - i explained how a few posts ago, we let them run the game in a way which benifits the west at the detriment of the nations we trade with - thus, we are complicit in the crimes of the state.

Sure a NWO might exist, The bad old days of Empire might well have been entirely down to a few bad apples... haha yeah right, heckler and kosh, BAE systems, etc, etc, etc they're all just a few bad appples. Glaxo, Monsanto, Shell, BP, etc, etc a few more bad apples - nothing to do with us honest guv! You complain that muslims don't do enough to stop islamic exstremists yet you totally wash your hands of every bad deed commited by a man in a pith helmet for the last 300 years?!? HA, the cheek of it!



labour of other people's ancestors.

So you have the right to an easy life because your ancestors worked hard? HAHA, YOU WISH! In this world you're born, you work hard then you die - simple as that, everyone has to do it. As i keep explaining, england is not rich because we worked very hard - it's rich and powerful because we used superior tactics (flags, ships, bibles and cannons) to take over most of the world and set up system by which we profit from things which are nothing to do with us.

I'm sure you've bothered to learn the history of the East India Tradeing Company so i won't bore you with it, same goes for the Boxer Revolution and Opium Wars in china, the Spice Islands and Trade Winds, The African campaigns (boar war, zulu genoside, etc).... Right up through the start of world war one when england sent troops into basra to secure the oil trade routes for the empire right upto modern day where our troops still fight to protect those pipelines. THIS is why england is rich. the 'hard work' of your peasant forfathers has nothing to do with it.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by NatureBoy]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by NatureBoy
I just don't want to see a bunch of illinformed knuckleheads destroying the fabric of our global society.


You calling one group of voters illinformed knuckleheads has the same value as me calling another group illinformed knuckleheads. It is arrogant, insulting, alienating, and does nothing to address the issues at hand. Furthermore it shines very poorly on you...


society has changed massively in the last hundred years - thus in this example, birth and death rates - for the reasons i covered, no i don't think that you can use the past to model the future.


Most changes in society are window dressing only. History has a habit of repeating itself. Human nature is the same. Religion is the same. We can pretend to live in this fantasy world of utopian multiculturalism and extreme liberalism but conflicts still go on, around the world and at home. The perfect storm is brewing, we're all on the same ship heading into it, and you want to live in denial.


You see how wanting england to remain pure and of one race IS racist right?


Who is complaining about blacks? Or the chinese? I'm happy for them to remain here because for the most part they properly integrate into England, instead of changing England into Africa or China. There is a level of mutual respect, they do not form a protest march when a group of patriotic whites walk in the street. Is it racist to preserve England and deny Islamists their Islamic state? That is what this is about, STOP changing the subject.


This means i'm not going to tell anyone how to live not am i going to let anyone tell me how to live.


Today, it is women police officers being told they must wear sexist, demeaning hijabs when dealing with Muslims, because otherwise their presence is offensive. There is no exemption for Christian police officers. But you can ignore that, because it doesn't apply to you. Eventually, it may be you who is told to change to fit in with others because your mere presence is offensive. You are too naive to see the pattern and when your time comes it will be too late to object. I will have no sympathy for you, because you refused to defend other's rights when this began.

Notice we don't lobby for Muslim police officers to remove their hijab when dealing with Christians.


it's rich and powerful because we used superior tactics (flags, ships, bibles and cannons) to take over most of the world


The BNP said it best. Paraphrase- It was wrong for the British to make Africa part of Britain. Just as it is wrong for Pakistanis to make Britain part of Pakistan! Do you get the picture yet, or is your brain a lost hope?



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by NatureBoy
You see how wanting england to remain pure and of one race IS racist right?

Firstly, I have not stated one single time that I want England to remain racially pure, nor that this is a requirement of England retaining its 'Englishness'. When I say I want England to remain English, I mean that it's predominant values, language, culture and genetic makeup should remain English, otherwise it ceases to be England anymore. Secondly, even if I had said what you suggested, only some people's definition of racism would condemn the idea that ethnicities have a right to self-determination.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
i did like how you tried to turn it around so that i support genocide, infact i don't - i don't want anyone killed, infact i want everyone to be free to have kids and bring them up in a fair world.

Surely displays of patriotism are one of the most vital expressions of freedom! As are displays of dissent. So you understand that when you defend those who would prevent English people from peacefully displaying their patriotism, it's difficult to see you as anything but anti-English.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
You complain that muslims don't do enough to stop islamic exstremists yet you totally wash your hands of every bad deed commited by a man in a pith helmet for the last 300 years?!? HA, the cheek of it!

No. I ABSOLUTELY condemn the harmful actions of Britons. I just don't believe it justifies Muslim hatred for the AVERAGE Briton. In the same way that I, and this EDL group, SPECIFICALLY target extremist elements among the Muslim community, the Muslims should SPECIFICALLY be targetting the greedy elites of the west who are themselves, and themselves alone profitting from the raping of the middle east. As YourForever said (or rather, paraphrased), it was as wrong of our forefathers to take nations over as it is for nations to currently be taking Britain over.


Originally posted by NatureBoy
THIS is why england is rich. the 'hard work' of your peasant forfathers has nothing to do with it.

Okay, now there you have a good point and I stand corrected. However, to put it differently, OUR ancestors won this country through strength and courage, and it is now being stripped from their descendents by underhand, devious tactics.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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I spoke about British police officers wearing the Islamic headscarfs (hijab). I should update that they are now trying out the full dress with slits for eyes (burka)... www.independent.co.uk...

Here they are..




What next?



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by YourForever
 


That's gotta be a joke right?

.............................................



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


First i've heard of any of this but i'll be VERY clear - football "hooligans" - from members of "firms" to simple "lairy troublemakers" are generally some of the most morally bankrupt, degenrate, racist, sexist, homophobic scum it has ever been my misfortune to meet.

If these people are causing trouble (and i'm all for freedom of speech and expression) i will not even slightly complain if the police clobber them senseless and lock 'em up - providing no innocent bystanders get caught up in such events.

I'm going to read the rest of this thread but i truly hope you aren't trying to defend these scum.



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