Letter from the Whitehouse (so it begins)

reply to post by SANTA CLAWS


Another well-informed follower going with the tide.

Originally posted by sylph hugger
I'm wondering here... what even gives the whitehouse the RIGHT to know my email address? I am choosy about who I give it out to in order to avoid spam.

And speaking of spam, if I get one of those emails I hope it will go directly to my junk mail folder!

The only way for you to get one of these e-mails grom the government is if you send them an e-mail or if someone forwards one of your e-mails regarding health care to them.

Reply to post by NoJoker13

Yet another baseless copout sheeple reference against someone you can't make any other claim against.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by wayno

It looks like not many of you have a clue what its all about either -- mostly just hyperbole.
I, on the other hand probably have more of a clue than you. I have lived with socialized health care my entire life -- and I can assure you that no-one is being euthanized in Canada because they are too old or too disabled.

Like I said, "Get a grip". There is a reason that 90% of the world has socialized health care. Your country will not lose its identity or character by joining them.

Euthanasia is already happening here with hospice. To cut the costs the government will more than likely push this aspect much more to help people feel comfortable while they are waiting to die, instead of actually trying to actually trying to make people healthy. Right now we have a choice. Reasonable choice if someone has a living will, but that choice is cut down since the doctors are not tied to healing you no matter what when you go into the ER. I wouldn't be surprised if the government says insurance won't cover actually healing the person, in favor of making their life comfortable by forcing pain pills down them while they wait to die.

I'm under health care through welfare right now. There is a procedure I want that would basically kill one medical problem that would enable my doctor and I to attack two other problems I have. The insurance said no, and that I would have to take another pill every day. I don't want to take the pill, since I know it will increase one of the problems I have, and won't work. It could very well mess up my system even more. There is more to it than what I'm saying, but don't want to get deeper into it.

I also got my eyeglasses from the same governmental insurance. Because how bad my eyes are, I need a special thin lens or it will be to heavy for me. The government wouldn't pay for it, so I had to pay out of pocket for it.

Do I really have a choice? No I don't.

In essence, people will be going from one plan where insurance denies many procedures to a governmental plan that will do the same. Will there be a difference? From what I read about and in the bill so far, that the government is going to award doctors to reduce how much is paid out. There will be an incentive for doctors not to argue for a procedure for a patient. I believe the governmental plan will be more severe in what they will allow, and also in denying procedures.

I know it already happens now, but I suspect will even happen more if this goes through. The doctors will not even mention a procedure that could take care of the problem, because they will know it will automatically be denied. They will recommend the person be prescribed something for the rest of their life to control instead of cure their aliment.

Maybe the one difference between you and I is that you trust your government. I don't, and many in the US do not trust our government. Our government has lied to us year after year after year for many, many years well over ten. They have demonstrated their ignorance towards the US citizen through the way they handled 911, airport security through homeland defense, hurricane Katerina through FEMA, they way the US government has handled Afghanistan and IRAN through the war on terror, not telling us the truth behind the rising gas prices, not telling us the truth about how bad the economy is. Also by destroying our economy back during the Regan days and even before by allowing companies moving overseas taking away our good paying jobs and leaving us with lower paying to minimum wage jobs through various policies such as NAFTA. The list goes on, and on, and on, and on.

We have good reason not to trust our government and what they are saying. It never seems to matter who gets elected, things have gotten steadily worse over the long run.

Why should we trust them now with a huge bill with current wording in it that takes away our choices, forces everyone into it, makes everyone pay out of pocket even if they can't afford it, and raises taxes even more. There will be those that have it for free, but if you make one cent over the cut off, you have to pay whether you actually can or not.

Health care needs to be reformed, but it could be handled in a much different way that doesn't harm the population over all.

How can we trust the US government to do things right when they didn't with the hurricane Katerina victims, the current crisis with the economy which they seem to be denying again by saying it is starting to get better, and the handling of the current "war on terror"? That war is just something they invented to create a fear in us and be able to keep it there so they can take away more of our rights in favor of so called protection. It is a war that can not be measured or really won.

There is a real reason and fear that the government health care plan will be worse than what is in place right now.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


what a nice lie

keep 'em coming white house

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Read my other post sheeple master. I'm for the healthcare bill not against it, I'm stating that the majority of the people here are trying to dissaude by any means necessary. The status quo here seems to be BASH OBAMA and liken him to tyranical rulers at all costs, that seems to be the tide. I suggest you read a bit more into my post before you just write a pointless statement.

My original post is on page 6 since you seem incapable of checking that yourself.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by NoJoker13]

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Have you yourself attended one of these so called "phoney" republican protests??? If you haven't then how are you positive they aren't "phoney" in the first place.

reply to post by Mystery_Lady


Umm I work along side hospice workers every single day... Do you? Because most the patients in my Nursing home that are visited by hospice nurses have terminal illnesses and are basically incurable. I work with Nurses who are people not government agents and they're also family friends. If someone that has a tumor inside his brain the size of an egg that is inoprable is that considered euthanasia???? Also most the people visited by hospice are over the age of 70 and couldn't be cured because the current cures would either kill or paralyze them. I suggest you do a bit more research or get a job in a Nursing Home to see first hand what type of patients are visited by hospice workers.

Also I'm glad I'm paying for your state run welfare insurance... THANKS! Because nationwide healthcare wouldn't cure that or something. Geez get a clue.



[edit on 11-8-2009 by NoJoker13]

reply to post by NoJoker13


Umm actually yes , i have attended Tea Parties and Town hall meetings BOTH.In my state and in my aunts state of Tenn. In my state we have Walt Minnick a democrat, who answered every question given to him and did NOT deflect, funny, the town hall went by smooth as butter on bread. In Tenn when I went w my aunt, it didnt go so well! Why? Because the politicans there refused to do anything but quote talking points instead of answering questions open and honestly.

And I wasnt called by any GOP candidate to join these Town Halls.....I did so of my own volition, out of concern. As do the majority of Americans doing the same all over the United States.

I am very politically active and have been since I was able to cast my first vote.


I have witnessed first hand the inability of the people putting on the town hall meetings to answer the questions, not only that ive witnessed them instead of answering direct questions, refuse or dismiss a question regarding the healthcare proposal, and move on to someone else..

Hmm dont you think that starts to get under peoples skin for a bit? People are concerned, they want their questions answered, you cannot ignore the people.

I think its funny the left calls it phony organization just to rile up the left and undermine Obama.......Manufactured anger by phony "astroturf" conservatives.....

Really? And community organizers like the SEIU and Acorn, and their ilk who go out in force and protest, championing causes for the liberal agenda, and causing conflict at these townhalls, ISNT "organized" to cause discontent?

How is it that everyday citizens upset at their government and being ignored is manufactured.......but the SEIU and Acorn can come in and do their "real" protesting for different causes, and are ACTUALLY REAL, FUNDED, ORGANIZATIONS, is deemed acceptable and legitimate?

Hypocrisy at its best...keep drinking the kool-aid......the more the PEOPLE of the united states are ignored, the worse its going to get.

reply to post by NoJoker13


So your ragging her for paying for her state run welfare.......but youd be fine with Nationalized healthcare? Are you not aware that youll be paying for that also? Not only that youll be paying MORE.

This will make welfare seem like a dream! This whole plan will dramatically increase the deficit. People will be paying MORE money, for MORE people than were EVER on welfare.

I also work in the health care field. Myself for 9 years and my mother for over 20. Currently I work for a company that is in the top 5 largest assisted living companies in the United States, and this bill is of GREAT concern to us as it should be to you, if you work in that field.

While its true that hospice doesnt euthanize anyone (people are terminal when they come to hospice, its maintenance and quality of life assurance) the issue is.......what happens when this bill passes?

They say they wont be pulling the plug on anyone, but the question people arent asking is.....what happens when the United States doesnt have the MONEY to keep up with the meds the elderly need?

We are already broke as a nation, acquiring huge amounts of debt every day. This proposal will send us into a HUGE deficit , slinging us even farther into debt. So when the government doesnt have the money to pay for the meds that people need, and no one will buy our debt (which is happening now) dont you think they are going to start rationing the meds to give to people they deem more suitable?

Dont you think they are going to start (passing) on helping the elderly and help the younger more "productive" Americans? You cant have your cake and eat it too, someones going to have to take the hit.

Id much rather work hard and have my OWN healthcare that I pay for and get the best care money can buy. Id also much rather pay for my FATHERS treatments and care then count on the government to do it!

We have to use some common sense here, NOTHING the government is in charge of works like it should.

You put the power of peoples health into the hands of the government instead of the hands of its PEOPLE, and you are going to have some real problems. We already know the government is corrupt and concerned only with their own wealth and power, why the HELL would we put them in charge of our physical well being?

Whats wrong with you America? What happen to taking care of ourselves? Working hard? Digging deep, pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps?
Have you become so lazy that you have to have "Daddy" (the gov) take care of you instead of having some grit and self worth to DO IT YOURSELF?

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Alright you go to these "Tea Parties" and you've been to other events. If the one run by a democrat went over smoothly why did you have to go to another event? Just a question. Also if I'm paying for national healthcare at least I'm included in the list who gets it for free. By my count my taxes wouldn't be effected much at all and these people on "welfare" would be forced to pay the same amount I am; is that correct?

Also did the one session you attended go over smoothly because the democrat was opposed to the bill? Just another ?

[edit on 11-8-2009 by NoJoker13]

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Also I make quite enough money to pay for my own health care; I have for pretty much the entirty of my adult life. But if I'm paying for someone else's healthcare I'd like the free pass as well. Daddy has got nothing to do with it.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by NoJoker13]

reply to post by NoJoker13


I went because i was visiting my aunt, for a couple of weeks and taking a vacation, and they were going, and being politically active, i thought id check out how things were on that side of the country.

Actually your taxes will increase, im not sure where your calculations are coming from, but id be interested to know.

I have a question tho, if these people on "welfare" have to be on welfare because they cannot support themselves.......what makes you think they are going to be able to pay the same in taxes as you do if AT ALL? Also , dont forget to take into account the number of illegal immigrants as well , that the administration promised would be able to ALSO get healthcare. Thats right, the more people on it, the higher its gonna get.

Nothing is free, things have to be paid for and it comes out of the pockets of the tax payer.

I know Minnick use to support that sort of thing, but i think he had changed his tune by the time the town hall came around. More for the fact that it would increase the debt than anything else. He was honest....answered the questions that were asked, and those he couldnt he simply said "i dont know" he didnt try to pander around about it.

I just want to make something clear, i think we need healthcare reform here in the U.S , absolutely , however i dont think the gov should be in control of all of our healthcare.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by ManBehindTheMask]

Who needs TV when you can just sit back and watch the americans collective heads explode on ATS !

Screw healthcare! Guns for everyone! Obama´s a commie and out to kill your grandma!!

Good times

Sincerally,
a dirty (socialist) european

I find this all rather odd and uncomfortable. This shows weakness in a leader. I'm glad I do not live under an Obama administration. I feel sorry for those who did not vote for him.


Just wondering how much tax payers money was spent on organizing and executing this mass email as well? What a waste!

IRM

It should be obvious that the reality of universal health care will be neither as bad as the naysayers fear; nor as utopian as the advocates would like you to believe.

The fact is that health care decisions will be made by humans, and we know that we are not perfect. Sometimes there are screwups - but that would not be unique to this issue, its just a fact of life.
It is also true that there will not be enough money to pay for everything that everyone wants all of the time. With reduced overall costs, however, there should be more money to go around to help cover more people with more than they get now. That is the whole point of the thing.

Its not perfect, but it is better than the current lack of care for those without enough money to pay.

Wow, this does not surprise me though. I was folowing someone on Youtube that talked about all that government conspiracy stuff and he is no longer on youtube. I'm pretty sure he was manually removed. I wonder where the government will go next if people don't want to willingly listen. Possibly mind control or prison camps?

Interesting article that I thought was worth mentioning regarding how this healthcare reform bill could effect people like Stephen Hawking:

So Barack Obama is facing the fight of his life (another one) as he attempts to reform the US healthcare system. The "special interests" – doctors, healthcare companies – don't like it. The "birthers" – crazy types who hope to prove he is not American – smell blood. The danger, says the Investor's Business Daily, is that he borrows too much from the UK. "The controlling of medical costs in countries such as Britain through rationing, and the health consequences thereof, are legendary. The stories of people dying on a waiting list or being denied altogether read like a horror script … People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." We say his life is far from worthless, as they do at Addenbrooke's hospital, Cambridge, where Professor Hawking, who has motor neurone disease, was treated for chest problems in April. As indeed does he. "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he told us. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived." Something here is worthless. And it's not him.

Link: www.guardian.co.uk...

As an irrelevant to this topic side-note, please note how "birthers" are described as "crazies"...

cant everyone see tptb are trying to make us fight their trying to separate us look people this is makes no sense the left and the right its dumb that's exactly how they control us by making us blame each other while it distracts us from what really going on come on people democrat republican whats the damn difference lol come on people its dumb come on its just a way of keeping the people under control keeping the people separate of thought is the secret key to control with the disagreement of the people comes the distraction of the people wake up the is patty cake mix guys we are so smart that we have become dumb to the simplest things the fact of the REAL matter is war only crates more war money is their imaginations at its best and we have been tricked by not our government but our ability to govern them we've been tricked out of our people by separation of the people. the health care bill is not yet fully understood me comming from poverty growing up in poor area of philly can understand that people don't have health care so to have it means everything to some people that have nothing but i also understand the money side to it which is the real root of the problem we are driven away from the the main point tricked by our own self greed were not going to talk government because that's a f ing joke to me i am against any type control control makes the human brain go crazy i hate to say it but if you anit rich than you a worker an no matter what kind of work you do and how good you do it your whole world is controlled by your imagination in money its not real its just paper am i going crazy here its the root of all evil self greed i wait for the day when people will come together with one common purpose with the ego which is a man made conception aside than only than when we can all look at each other for whats in the heart we are in a battle for our very own freedom cant you see this world has to change we have to find grounds we have to find the secret in which i think is love i anit no scientist or nothing i just speak what my heart tells me to say peace!

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Originally posted by wayno

It looks like not many of you have a clue what its all about either -- mostly just hyperbole.
I, on the other hand probably have more of a clue than you. I have lived with socialized health care my entire life -- and I can assure you that no-one is being euthanized in Canada because they are too old or too disabled.

Like I said, "Get a grip". There is a reason that 90% of the world has socialized health care. Your country will not lose its identity or character by joining them.

Euthanasia is already happening here with hospice. To cut the costs the government will more than likely push this aspect much more to help people feel comfortable while they are waiting to die, instead of actually trying to actually trying to make people healthy. Right now we have a choice. Reasonable choice if someone has a living will, but that choice is cut down since the doctors are not tied to healing you no matter what when you go into the ER. I wouldn't be surprised if the government says insurance won't cover actually healing the person, in favor of making their life comfortable by forcing pain pills down them while they wait to die.

I'm under health care through welfare right now. There is a procedure I want that would basically kill one medical problem that would enable my doctor and I to attack two other problems I have. The insurance said no, and that I would have to take another pill every day. I don't want to take the pill, since I know it will increase one of the problems I have, and won't work. It could very well mess up my system even more. There is more to it than what I'm saying, but don't want to get deeper into it.

I also got my eyeglasses from the same governmental insurance. Because how bad my eyes are, I need a special thin lens or it will be to heavy for me. The government wouldn't pay for it, so I had to pay out of pocket for it.

Do I really have a choice? No I don't.

In essence, people will be going from one plan where insurance denies many procedures to a governmental plan that will do the same. Will there be a difference? From what I read about and in the bill so far, that the government is going to award doctors to reduce how much is paid out. There will be an incentive for doctors not to argue for a procedure for a patient. I believe the governmental plan will be more severe in what they will allow, and also in denying procedures.

I know it already happens now, but I suspect will even happen more if this goes through. The doctors will not even mention a procedure that could take care of the problem, because they will know it will automatically be denied. They will recommend the person be prescribed something for the rest of their life to control instead of cure their aliment.

Maybe the one difference between you and I is that you trust your government. I don't, and many in the US do not trust our government. Our government has lied to us year after year after year for many, many years well over ten. They have demonstrated their ignorance towards the US citizen through the way they handled 911, airport security through homeland defense, hurricane Katerina through FEMA, they way the US government has handled Afghanistan and IRAN through the war on terror, not telling us the truth behind the rising gas prices, not telling us the truth about how bad the economy is. Also by destroying our economy back during the Regan days and even before by allowing companies moving overseas taking away our good paying jobs and leaving us with lower paying to minimum wage jobs through various policies such as NAFTA. The list goes on, and on, and on, and on.

blah blah....

I dont agree with any form of violence, but i would expect a civil war soon when this country really goes to hell.