August 10th crop circle, the owl

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
reply to post by trueforger

 

Obviously, you don't get it...

I am here to debunk THIS crop circle. YOU CROPPIES are the ones that always turn it into a debate about ALL crop circles...

THIS crop circle is MAN-MADE, and the PROOF is hidden in the way it was designed, and the way it was made.

It is designed with circles and lines AND NOTHING MORE (very simple for man).

There is lines and sloppy mistakes in the "infill" which is also PROOF that it was made the traditional man-made technique.

There is also holes in perfect positions for pivot points.

The crop circle in the original post is man-made.

NEXT!

Yes we understand you think it was man made, but where are the videos supporting your claim that show such perfect symetry and intricacy made within the short window that this one was.

Originally posted by wize1one
Yes we understand you think it was man made, but where are the videos supporting your claim that show such perfect symetry and intricacy made within the short window that this one was.

But where are your videos to prove the opposite?
Circles and straight lines are not difficult to make in a crop field.

Originally posted by DGFenrir

Originally posted by wize1one
Yes we understand you think it was man made, but where are the videos supporting your claim that show such perfect symetry and intricacy made within the short window that this one was.

But where are your videos to prove the opposite?

Circles and straight lines are not difficult to make in a crop field.

I never stated it was made by an "alien" you are the one stating the man made theory so the burden of proof falls on you.

ALLisONE and others like you.

I must commend you in your contribution to this thread and others like it. But I have a big problem with the manner in which you present your data and explanation.

Firstly when I read through you postings, I get the uneasy feeling of someone sitting in front of their PC monitor screaming at it “You lot are efffing idiots, listen to ME ME ME”. If you are so confident in your beliefs why bother coming to this forum in the first place, what are you trying to prove.

Secondly the data you present is seemingly detailed and well prepared and often lengthily. Again why do I get the uneasy feeling that this guy is trying to overload the thread so passionately with information, dis-information, and personal opinion.

Thirdly I note your post timings
4:46
4:50
5:57
6:02
6:30
7:49
8:06
11:05
11:13
11:35
11:50
More to follow I am sure.

Either you have plenty of time on your hands and write and collate data at super quick speeds or your posting are already prepared (with slight adjustments)in an auto response to any person suggesting that this phenomena is not man-made.

I am not sure what your agenda is, but if it is to contribute to this topic so others can make an informed judgement, you are losing it slowly. I would suggest going here and read the technique of presenting ones view.

www.korncirkler.dk...

www.korncirkler.dk...

www.greatdreams.com...

So please present your data, but do not make sweeping statement that ALL crop circles ARE manmade and can be made in a timescale YOU believe is fact based upon YOUR maths and methodology of calculating a multi element linear process.

I have a hard time accepting your postings whilst they completely seem to ignore all the other scientifically proven data which has been researched by people much more knowledgeable then you or I.

O wize1one, ALLis0NE has patiently demonstrated how easy it is for some people to make even the most complicated circle, yet your response is pathetic. Why don't you demonstrate how ALLis0NE is wrong?

reply to post by wize1one


I already showed videos. One of the best videos you can see by clicking the link in my signature.

Perfect symmetry? They appear perfectly symmetrical because they are using tools to guide them.

With a rope, you can make a perfect circle.

When two people stretch the rope, and a third person walks from one to the next, you can make a perfectly straight line.

If you tie knots in a rope at certain measured lengths, you can use it like a measuring tape. You can then create a crop circle like you would create a drawing on graph paper. You use the rope to mark major points, then you connect the dots, or make the arcs and circles with the same rope.

If you think symmetry is hard, I ask you to PLEASE take some art classes, or learn how to draw using a graph.

Intricacy? Intricacy is your OPINION. As a graphic artist, I have never seen ANY crop circles that are intricate, or complex. They are all made with circles, and lines, and all look like simple designs...

Are you trying to say crop circles are impossible for humans to make in short periods of time? You are insulting humans...

There is TONS of proof humans can make crop circles. So I don't even understand your question or argument anymore..

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
reply to post by wize1one

 

I already showed videos. One of the best videos you can see by clicking the link in my signature.

Perfect symmetry? They appear perfectly symmetrical because they are using tools to guide them.

With a rope, you can make a perfect circle.

When two people stretch the rope, and a third person walks from one to the next, you can make a perfectly straight line.

If you tie knots in a rope at certain measured lengths, you can use it like a measuring tape. You can then create a crop circle like you would create a drawing on graph paper. You use the rope to mark major points, then you connect the dots, or make the arcs and circles with the same rope.

If you think symmetry is hard, I ask you to PLEASE take some art classes, or learn how to draw using a graph.

Intricacy? Intricacy is your OPINION. As a graphic artist, I have never seen ANY crop circles that are intricate, or complex. They are all made with circles, and lines, and all look like simple designs...

Are you trying to say crop circles are impossible for humans to make in short periods of time? You are insulting humans...

There is TONS of proof humans can make crop circles. So I don't even understand your question or argument anymore..

Many are quite intricate, one in particular, the alien face, although not a circle is a good example. Also, the woven one of recent date is another interesting example.

reply to post by ALLis0NE


RIGHT GOT IT,no problem hearing you LOUD and CLEAR.I have missed no points you have made(to your satisfaction)You made your point.Thank you.Your purpose,now that you have made and reiterated and re-reiterated and beaten into the ground these same postulates,what is it?Why post more of the same?Really,you have accomplished as much as you can.Thank you.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by Total Package
HAHAHAHAHAAHAH overwhelming evidence that aliens have never visited Earth. Ok Professor of Idiotology where is the overwhelming evidence Aliens have never visited. I wait your findings with baited breath.

You are old and clueless... I am saddened to know the world if full of people like yourself.

Oh dear... hilarious. Firstly you attack me saying you wonder how old I am... as if I was some 12 year old kid..... then when I tell you I am 37 you come out with the "You are old and clueless" line. Well if that isn't Rule C of Stanton Friedman's 4 major rule of debunkers "If one can't attack the data, attack the people. It is easier." then I don't know what is.

You are exactly the sort of noisy negativist debunker that Stanton Friedman talks about.... poisoning the water with your pathetic reasoning of "Well there are videos of people faking them so ALL of them are faked".

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

There is ZERO evidence that aliens have ever visited Earth.

So.... that alone is overwhelming evidence. Duh

Really? Zero evidence? So the evidence of Phillip Corso.... irrelevant? The evidence of Jesse Marcel Snr and Jnr... all irrelevant? The pyschical evidence of the people who have had alien implants removed containing structure and material not found on our planet..... and which appeared to be intelligent by dodging the scalpel whilst trying to be removed...... all irrelevant. The photos and video footage going back to last century... all faked...... The Stephensville Lights a mile high UFO.... seen by 1000s... all liars the lot of them.

Betty Hill the alleged abductee who was able to draw a part of the solar system as shown to her by her alien abductors..... all well before astronomers were able to see that far into the universe.......... that was just 1 big lucky guess as well!

Yeah you got me there mate... absolutely no evidence at all.

And on top of that you debunk Crop Circles by doing the old tried and tested excuse of "Well I can make one with a board and rope so they are ALL proven to be fake". One of the most pathetic bits of "evidence" I have ever seen.

So let me get this right Einstein.... if I've just invented this thing called a jet engine.... put it in a plane and fly it.... then got on the old rotary phone and explained to the British "Oi old son I've just invented a plane that works by using a jet engine!" would you be the village idiot sitting there saying [B]"Bull# it's not a jet engine getting that plane in the air... it's a propeller... LOOK! Here is a video of a plane with propellors and it's flying... SEE!!!!! LOOK CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PLANE FLYING WITH A JET ENGINE!!!! IT'S ALL POWERED BY PROPELLORS"[/B]

Because as stupid as it sounds that anology is EXACTLY what you do to explain Crop Circles. Because CC may be done with a techonology you don't understand...... and the possible explanations (eg: possible ET) are outside of what your brain is able to interpret..... or if it's a case of your religion whether than be science as your religion or mainstream religion you refuse to acknowledge that you might not know and you might be wrong. How do you pull a shirt over your head in the morning with your ego being so big?

reply to post by wize1one


The alien face IS NOT intricate. It is made of only 60 LINES with different thickness. They use the ASCII Art technique.

Google ASCII ART and click images:

images.google.com...

Examples:




Each character is a different thickness. Each line has more or less detail.

The alien face crop circle was created by walking left to right on each line. They had a few preplanned thicknesses like small 1, medium 2, large 3. Then they just measured when to bend and when not to bend, like ON/OFF. So they just follwed their map they created before they got there, most likly on a computer...

The alien face is SIMPLE and not even close to being intricate. Especially when there are tools avalible that will turn a real image into an ASCII image, and you can use ASCII art to convert to a crop circle....

Once again, it is your OPINION that it is intricate, and because of your lack of knowledge of art, geometery, drafting, and any type of graphics, crop circle look more intricate to you than they do to me.


[edit on 12-8-2009 by ALLis0NE]

[edit on 12-8-2009 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by ALLis0NE


"The alien face is SIMPLE and not even close to being intricated. Especially when there are tools avalible that will turn a real image into an ASCII image, and you can use ASCII art to convert to a crop circle"

'Bout says it all.The step you omit is the ACTUAL work involved.Spending too much time drawing on a screen has you apparently thinking that is somehow as real as is the appearance of a huge Work overnight.No need to reply.I get it.It is easy to draw and many have claimed and shewn(actually,few have claimed,but it has been repeated so much it has developed into a chorus)they claim to do 'em.No need to repeat.Really.

Originally posted by Total Package

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

On a programme called, The Worlds Greatest Hoaxs, they showed a 6oo ft complicated pictogram made in less than six hours which was filmed from the top of a crane. I don't doubt for one minute that those guys would/could make the circle you so desire.
I don't think you would be laughing much then...

Why don't you do us all a favour. Given you so obviously think every Crop Circle in human history all around the world was made by man.... why don't you go out there and go get us some video to prove it's man made.

I'm sick of the noisy negativists... proclaiming rather than investigating. I want you to catch these people doing it if you are so sure. A few nuts admitting they make crappy looking crop circles with barely any intricisy come forward and you immediately tar every crop circle with the same brush.

If your local priest is a paedophile is that conclusive proof that all priests are paedophiles? because that is your rational on crop circles. Ridiculous.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Total Package]

But people have been caught making them and taken to court and charged! What more proof do you need? You say my rational is ridiculous. . . then I ask you, what is yours!!? Are you seriously suggesting that aliens or some paranormal force is wasting it's time creating crop circles which, I repeat, are easily replicated? Because if you are saying that then I am speechless. Is that whats its come to? Its stoneage man thinking. . . They looked at rainbows and thought it was messages from the gods. They hid in caves because they thought that lightning was caused by the gods. They thought that every natural disaster they suffered was retribution from the gods. . . And thousands of years later we still have people who think that crop circle art is created by the gods(aliens). Evolution has passed them by. . .

Where you see "owl" I see reciprocating machinery (or a part thereof).

Originally posted by Total Package
Firstly you attack me saying you wonder how old I am... as if I was some 12 year old kid..... then when I tell you I am 37 you come out with the "You are old and clueless" line.

When I asked how old you were, it wasn't an insult, it was honest curiosity.

I have tried to hold conversations about logical data with teenagers and younger people before and I found it was really difficult because of their lack or knowledge and judgment.

After reading posts from you, I got the same impression, so I had to ask.

Originally posted by Total Package
Well if that isn't Rule C of Stanton Friedman's 4 major rule of debunkers "If one can't attack the data, attack the people. It is easier." then I don't know what is.

Maybe you missed my first post on this topic? I showed evidence of being man made using illustrations and logic... and I STILL haven't seen anyone prove me wrong...

You insulted my intelligence, and you don't even realize that I am returning the favor.

You should read the rule book about people who will believe anything that is fed to them... it's a good one. It mentions people like you... who are clueless to reality and live in a hoax induced psychosis.

Originally posted by Total Package
You are exactly the sort of noisy negativist debunker that Stanton Friedman talks about.... poisoning the water with your pathetic reasoning of "Well there are videos of people faking them so ALL of them are faked".

That is not my reasoning. You just proved how clueless you are, and that you can't read.

Since you can't read, let me make a cartoon image for you....

My reasoning is, we have seen, and we have known, that humans make crop circles, and we have A LOT of proof that they have made crop circles.

We have NOT seen, nor do we know for certianty, that aliens make any crop circles at all, and we have ZERO proof that they ever have made crop circles.

If you can't read, or understand the cartoon, then you just might be going senile.

Please do not put words in my mouth again.

Originally posted by Total Package
Really? Zero evidence?

Yes ZERO evidence.

Originally posted by Total Package
So the evidence of Phillip Corso.... irrelevant?

He had ZERO evidence, and only had a STORY. Yes, irrelevant.

HE WAS SELLING A BOOK!

Originally posted by Total Package
The evidence of Jesse Marcel Snr and Jnr... all irrelevant?

Also, Jesse Marcel Sr, and Jr had ZERO evidence too... only a STORY.

Both of the above examples are about Roswel, that I believe the Roswel crash did happen, but there is ZERO proof that it was an "alien" craft. That is all speculation.

It could have been a human craft from another country, or this countries secret tech. that crashed.

Still, ZERO proof, ZERO evidence, that it was "alien".

Originally posted by Total Package
The pyschical evidence of the people who have had alien implants removed containing structure and material not found on our planet.....

Still no proof or evidence that they are "alien". Calling them "alien implants" and meaning "extraterrestiral" is a stretch of your imagination.

Also you are wrong, the material can not be found NATURALLY on our planet. That is a big difference. We already know mostly all elements because they are sequential and are by numbers, and can be predicted. Materials are mixtures of elements. Just because we have never seen a certain mixture of elements and that creates an unclassified material, that doesn't mean it is "alien", nor does it mean it has, and never will be found on our planet. It just means that is the first time it was found.

That just means that some unnatural thing happened for them to get that object.

Originally posted by Total Package
and which appeared to be intelligent by dodging the scalpel whilst trying to be removed...... all irrelevant.

I saw that video to, and you were FOOLED. So were the people observing it.

If you watch that video again, you can see the object only moves when the doctor moves his tool. The space between the tool, and the object was NOT air, it was tissue and fluid. That means the tool and the object were physically connected by tissue and fluid. Every time the doctor moved the tool, it pushed the tissue, and fluid, and moved the object.

It gave the illusion it was "intelligent, and moving away at the perfect time".... but it was all a misconception. You got fooled, and I almost did too, untill I took a closer look.

So yes, IRRELEVANT, because that still doesn't prove "aliens" have visited Earth...

Originally posted by Total Package
The photos and video footage going back to last century... all faked...... The Stephensville Lights a mile high UFO.... seen by 1000s... all liars the lot of them.

You are clueless... so clueless...

I'm not calling any of that fake, or a lie.... You just jumped to the conclusion..

Like I said before you even posted... you can show me any UFO video or image, and that STILL doesn't prove they are "alien" and not from this planet.

They could be a foreign countries secret tech. or USA's secret tech, it could even be private tech created by a private inventor.

There is still ZERO EVIDENCE that it is "alien"... and ZERO reason to think it is "alien".

So yes, IRRELEVANT.

Originally posted by Total Package
Betty Hill the alleged abductee who was able to draw a part of the solar system as shown to her by her alien abductors..... all well before astronomers were able to see that far into the universe.......... that was just 1 big lucky guess as well!

Yes, I don't believe the Betty Hill case one bit. All a nice sotry, but so full of holes. And still ZERO evidence that the abductors are "alien".

WELL BEFORE ASTRONOMERS WERE ABLE TO SEE??? That is a FLASE claim. Seems like you believe any B.S. that someone tells you.

Even Carl Sagan and Stephen Soter said it was a RANDOM alignment of chance points. I agree with those very smart people.

I bet you 1 million dollars that you can put random points on a piece of paper and I will find a match in the stars. There is billions of stars.... it is REALLY easy...

Originally posted by Total Package
Yeah you got me there mate... absolutely no evidence at all.

Yeah, I did get you there... ZERO evidence. Everything you pointed too has ZERO evidence of "alien" origin.

Nice try though.

Originally posted by Total Package
And on top of that you debunk Crop Circles by doing the old tried and tested excuse of "Well I can make one with a board and rope so they are ALL proven to be fake". One of the most pathetic bits of "evidence" I have ever seen.

You obviously missed my FIRST POST!

I debunked this and other crop circles by showing images of pivot points, images of wood plank marks (lines and rows) left in the bent crops, and in other topic I show mistakes, AND I show how easy it is to design and layout and make...

You are absolutly clueless... Go read my first post again, you must be losing your memory because of old age.

Originally posted by Total Package
So let me get this right Einstein.... if I've just invented this thing called a jet engine.... put it in a plane and fly it.... then got on the old rotary phone and explained to the British "Oi old son I've just invented a plane that works by using a jet engine!" would you be the village idiot sitting there saying [B]"Bull# it's not a jet engine getting that plane in the air... it's a propeller... LOOK! Here is a video of a plane with propellors and it's flying... SEE!!!!! LOOK CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PLANE FLYING WITH A JET ENGINE!!!! IT'S ALL POWERED BY PROPELLORS"[/B]

That's got to be the most stupid anaology in the world, and has nothing to do with my evidence of crop circles being man-made.

Obviously you didn't read my first post... or you are old and loosing your memory, but I just showed you COMMON MARKS left behind by HUMANS while making crop circles.. It's like a fingerprint!

The only reason I am showing videos is because YOU PEOPLE keep asking "to see a video of humans making complex crop circles at night".. so I show videos.

Again, READ my first post!!

Originally posted by Total Package
Because as stupid as it sounds that anology is EXACTLY what you do to explain Crop Circles.

You are right that anology is frikken BEYOND STUPID. But you are also wrong, it is NOT EVEN CLOSE to my explaination of crop circles.

You are still clueless..

Originally posted by Total Package
Because CC may be done with a techonology you don't understand......

No, there is not such thing as technology I don't understand. Try me.

The crop circles are made with simple technology. There is not one reason to think they are made with an advanced technology. All the so called reasons people think they are made with advanced technology are EASILY explained... You just don't possess the intelligence to understand the explainations.

Originally posted by Total Package
and the possible explanations (eg: possible ET) are outside of what your brain is able to interpret.....

No, nothing is outside my brain to interpret. Try me.

The problem is YOU were fooled into thinking the crop circles need some type of advanced technology to create, so you only think "aliens" did it because you lack knowledge.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by trueforger
reply to post by ALLis0NE

 

'Bout says it all.The step you omit is the ACTUAL work involved.

That part is the easy part, that is why I omitted it..

Here I will tell you...

You go to a field with your preplanned map.

You face the direction that allows you to fit your entire design onto the field. And you mark your start position, in this case the upper left corner. Then someone helping you extends your rope out, and you measure and mark the top right corner. Then you smash the crops from left to right, to make the first top line.

Then you move down (perpendicular to your first line) a few feet, and you do the same thing AGAIN. You create a parallel line. This time you follow your ASCII map that you made before you got there... It tells you how many feet to smash, and how many feet to not smash, and it shows you how thick to smash it (size of wood plank). You smash that line... then move down to the next line....

Repeat that process for 60 lines... and you have yourself the "Alien face" crop circle created with line art, ASCII art.....

SIMPLE!

Originally posted by trueforger
Spending too much time drawing on a screen has you apparently thinking that is somehow as real as is the appearance of a huge Work overnight.No need to reply.I get it.It is easy to draw and many have claimed and shewn(actually,few have claimed,but it has been repeated so much it has developed into a chorus)they claim to do 'em.No need to repeat.Really.

The problem here is, I am a jack of all trades, and nothing seems impossible to me, and there is nothing I can't do..

But you are someone who probably can't even design a power supply for a computer, program an application that utilizes an asynchronous TCP connection, or 3D model an exact replica of an MD600N helicopter, or even fathom how to design AND BUILD every aspect of a house including plumbing, electrical, structural, and all of the above, and you probably don't even know how to build an engine from the ground up, including casting the engine block, machining the important parts of the block, and all off the parts like carburetors, cylinders, cylinder heads, the cam, the rockers the intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds, and even the valves and valve stems... I can make ALL of those, and do all of those... SIMPLY.

I'm certain you probably couldn't do have the stuff I mention above.

That is the difference between you and I...

I understand how EASY it would be, and you are trying to tell me it would be hard, because you lack knowledge.

There is NOTHING hard about making crop circles, after you have made some of the things I have.

Seriously, we are talking about bending crops!!! REALLY, bending crops... can you not bend crops?

reply to post by ALLis0NE

You are correct, sir, in saying that there has been no "proof" obtained to say that crop circles are anything but man-made. The problem is, there exists curious evidence found at crop circle sites that suggests the involvement of some phenomena that is beyond human beings. (Whether that suggests the work of ETs, so be it). The lack of "proof" at this end really doesn't prove beyond all reasonable doubt that these crop circles, some of them, a majority of them, whatever, are man-made; it merely leaves the question open, because it's obvious that in many cases something else is going on.

The crop circle phenomenon isn't as "simple" a task as working out the math and geometry.
Let's take a closer look:
The deepening complexity of crop circles by Eltjo Haselhoff

On July 7, 1996, at a stone's throw from the famous Stonehenge megaliths in south England, a formation of 151 circles appeared in broad daylight. The total formation was over 380 feet wide.
The 1996 Stonehenge formation appeared within about half and hour, during broad daylight.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d83d0d05862e.jpg[/atsimg]

The tree circle, which was reported by Czech researcher Petr Novák in 1994, consisted of a circle 10m in diameter, consisting of adult trees, which were bent at angles up to ninety degrees.
In 1998, a similar report came from Butte (Montana, USA) where 150 acres of pine trees were completely flattened to the ground. No storms had been reported at the time whatsoever.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/081a89d4ba72.jpg[/atsimg]
An interesting picture of tree circles at Wabikon lake forest, Wisconsin. (Apparently a hoax, but an eye-catching one at that..)

But the plot thickens...

In 1997, a pictogram appeared in a Dutch carrot field. From the air, the formation did not look impressive at all. It was enclosed by high corn fields and was completely invisible from the road. The earth was very soft, making it impossible without leaving deep and clearly visible footprints. The most curious things was the direction of the lay. In one half of the rectangle, the carrot leaves lay forward, while in the opposite half they lay backwards. On the imaginary boundary line separating the two halves, there was a long row of carrots which roughly one half of the leaves had been flattened in one direction, while the other half of the leaves of the same plants had been flattened in the opposite direction. At the right the leaves are bent away from you; at the left they are bent toward you; and in the middle the leaves of a single plant seem to be "combed" in two directions, with a little tuft in the middle still standing upright.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a576da020768.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/070420bdc381.jpg[/atsimg]

It was clear that no one had set foot inside this crop formation, simply because of the lack of footprints. What was found, however, were various burn marks on the plants. In several places, the far ends of the carrot leaves were burned to ashes, and sometimes the entire leaf had been burned away.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/049a74163830.jpg[/atsimg]

Another remarkable finding was the pictogram in snow, which was created in the night between December 30 and 31, 1996. On a frozen and snow-covered field in the south of the Netherlands, after several days of hard frost, a circle (seven meters in diameter) with a superimposed cross was created, in which the snow had disappeared. And curiously enough, there were no footprints leading to or from the formation.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee29e1cac5b9.jpg[/atsimg]

The Dead Fly Enigma

On July 17, 1998, the Dutch researcher Janet Ossebaard was confronted with a new crop circle-related mystery: numerous dead flies stuck on the seed heads of wheat plants inside a crop circle. Soon the same observations were made by herself and by others in several other crop formations. The insects were firmly stuck with their tongues against their ears, and their legs and wings were spread out widely, as in a spasm. Pesticides could easily be excluded, because if that had been the case, dead flies would have been found throughout the field. Yet they were found solely inside the crop circles, and nowhere else.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24729b654a94.jpg[/atsimg]

A few more pictures of "tree circles":
Tree Circles in the Netherlands

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Why is there a TON of proof that humans make crop circles, but ZERO proof that anything else does?

Put briefly, because we know what to look for and human interference can easily be identified. Trying to prove it is something other than that can be tough. Not so tough in identifying evidence that is unusual, more tough in the sense that we cannot prove why that evidence is there, how it got there and who or what put it there.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
It is foolish to think Owl = wisdom to an alien, or Sun = centrality to an alien that is from another star system, or circle = infinity to an alien instead of representing a 3D sphere in 2D.

JC. No where in my previous post did I mention that the alternative cause behind crop circles were "aliens". I implied that it may be something other than human, but not specifically "an alien". And to address the above quote, I was only offering an alternative opinion. If the circumstances do concern ETs, as is a popular consensus among many people, then we as a species are somehow involved, that much would be obvious. In following that line of logic, naturally their "messages" would be preoccupied with something that would concern "us" from our perspective??

ALL of your guesses are USELESS, and POINTLESS

Oh I'm sorry if my curiosity, exploration and open-mindedness towards the matter only bores you and renders my thoughts "pointless" in your eyes. You're obviously more superior to me.

Vacant


[edit on 12/8/09 by pretty_vacant]

reply to post by pretty_vacant

Are those tree circles at Wabikon Lake real?
I'm sceptical about crop circles but that is an amazing picture. .

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
You are correct, sir, in saying that there has been no "proof" obtained to say that crop circles are anything but man-made.

Try telling that to the user "Total Package".

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
The problem is, there exists curious evidence found at crop circle sites that suggests the involvement of some phenomena that is beyond human beings. (Whether that suggests the work of ETs, so be it).

I have never seen anything that couldn't be explained. All I have seen is a whole group of people thinking that it couldn't be explained.

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
The lack of "proof" at this end really doesn't prove beyond all reasonable doubt that these crop circles, some of them, a majority of them, whatever, are man-made; it merely leaves the question open, because it's obvious that in many cases something else is going on.

I understand that.. What I am trying to say is that "something else" is going on, and it CAN be explained without jumping to the "alien" conclusion.

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
The crop circle phenomenon isn't as "simple" a task as working out the math and geometry.

Most of the time it is.

You must understand there is also groups of people who will make up stories to get mentioned on TV or newspaper, or to get some attentions, and or make money.

Also understand there is a lot of not so intelligent people who will also jump to conclusions, and make "omg this can't be explained" remarks before getting any REAL input.

Originally posted by pretty_vacant

On July 7, 1996, at a stone's throw from the famous Stonehenge megaliths in south England, a formation of 151 circles appeared in broad daylight. The total formation was over 380 feet wide.
The 1996 Stonehenge formation appeared within about half and hour, during broad daylight.

I have heard about the above crop circle SUPPOSEDLY appearing in about a half and hour later. There was actually a video discussion about it on TV, I think Discovery channel.

A pilot flying a tour over Stonehenge returns to the airport, and then half an hour later flies back to Stonehenge and then notices the crop circle. He says "I didn't notice it before, and I almost sure it wasn't there, I think".

Key words were "pretty sure" and "I think"... the truth is, he most probably just didn't notice it the first time, and he even acknowledge the fact that he probably didn't see it the first flight, and only noticed it the second flight.

Even then that crop circle is made with nothing but circles, and can probably be made in 45 minutes by multiple people.

Right after that, the farmers made money off of that crop circle, and was charging admission for people to enter it.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/081a89d4ba72.jpg[/atsimg]

The above image IS FAKE. That is a HOAX. That is an CGI image, and you can tell because of the fake water, the fake reflections in the water... and the fake trees. It is completely FAKE, all the way around.

In 1997, a pictogram appeared in a Dutch carrot field.

Also, can be easily explained...

The problem is you are reading words from someone who has no clue. It's like a news reporter talking about a murder that they have no clue about.

"We have reports that the murder weapon can not be found in the area".... and they didn't even look themselves...

Just because "no footprints were found" doesn't mean someone didn't try to cover their tracks.. It's really easy, special forces practice this.

Most crop circle makers really do worry about leaving tracks behind... I can show you circle makers making comments about it. They try hard to hide and erase footsteps.

Another remarkable finding was the pictogram in snow, which was created in the night between december 30 and 31, 1996. On a frozen and snow-covered field in the south of the Netherlands, after several days of hard frost, a circle (seven meters in diameter) with a superimposed cross was created, in which the snow had disappeared. And curiously enough, there were no footprints leading to or from the formation.

Once again, still can be explained. You can make some cool snow circles with buckets of warm water..

You can easily hide your foot prints in snow too..

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
The Dead Fly Enigma

On July 17, 1998, the Dutch researcher Janet Ossebaard was confronted with a new crop circle-related mystery: numerous dead flies stuck on the seed heads of wheat plants inside a crop circle. Soon the same observations were made by herself and by others in several other crop formations. The insects were firmly stuck with their tongues against their ears, and their legs and wings were spread out widely, as in a spasm. Pesticides could easily be excluded, because if that had been the case, dead flies would have been found throughout the field. Yet they were found solely inside the crop circles, and nowhere else.

Here is a very good link about the dead fly enigma...

www.cicap.org...

That death for the flies is caused by "ntomophthora muscae".

You're describing flies [...] that have died from infection with a fungus, Entomophthora muscae. A fly gets infected when a fungal spore from another infected fly lands on it. The fungus penetrates the fly's cuticle, proliferates inside the fly, and, shortly after the death of the fly, grows out of the cadaver and produces spores that eject in a "shower" which results in the white corona you see surrounding the cadaver on the window glass. Typically the fly will die in an elevated position stuck to the substrate by its proboscis with legs extended, wings raised, and the abdomen tilted upward".

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
A few more pictures of "tree circles":
Tree Circles in the Netherlands

Those can also be explained by natural forces.. Tree bend from wind. they bend when they are dying, they even bend to get more light and or more water. There are many explanations....

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
Put briefly, because we know what to look for and human interference can easily be identified. Trying to prove it is something other than that can be tough. Not so tough in identifying evidence that is unusual, more tough in the sense that we cannot prove why that evidence is there, how it got there and who or what put it there.

I understand what you are saying.

It is the who, what, how and why that causes people to jump to the "alien" conclusion when they can't figure it out. Which I think is REALLY close minded.... because they are giving up and closing their mind, and explaining it away by blaming some unseen race of aliens, or forces.

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
And to address the above quote, I was only offering an alternative opinion.

If the circumstances do concern ETs, as is a popular consensus among many people, then we as a species are somehow involved, that much would be obvious. In following that line of logic, naturally their "messages" would be preoccupied with something that would concern "us" from our perspective??

If they were intelligent enough to understand our perspective, and to know the higher meaning to some of our symbols, that would mean they are smart enough to just learn one of our several languages like English, and leave a pure English message in the crops. But they don't....

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
Oh I'm sorry if my curiosity, exploration and open-mindedness towards the matter only bores you and renders my thoughts "pointless" in your eyes. You're obviously more superior to me.

Vacant

You are right, it did bore me. I am at a state of mind where your thoughts are more close-minded to me than anything, like you have already made up your mind...

I have already explored that aspect, and have already gone beyond it.

Actually crop circles bore me.. because there is much more complex and interesting things to learn.

Did you know that if "aliens" figured out the equation for gravity, they wouldn't even need space ships? They wouldn't even need physical bodies, nor would they even need to communicate using physical objects. They would have cracked the secret of secrets, and could do many amazing things..

Leaving message or designs in crops sounds like B.S. to me.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by ALLis0NE]

I think the problem with people making all of these intricate crop circles is this...you can't mess up!

If one of your guys "blows it" during the creation process, you can't fix it. The symmetry would be destroyed. This never seems to happen. Generally speaking, these are mostly perfect creations...at least in the symmetrical sense. Another thing is...how do you check your work?? You would have to have someone fly over the circle (at night) to tell you how progress is going and if you've made any mistakes. That means you need a plane (& pilot), walkie-talkies, night vision equipment, etc. No. That just doesn't make sense. And where do these people practice?? Are there fields somewhere that nobody ever flies over? And even then, how do they check their work? No of this makes sense to me. There's also been sightings associated with crop circles and odd radiation readings. There's something more going on here than just a bunch of rogue crop circle fanatics. Too many things don't add up.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by Graphix10]

reply to post by Graphix10


Well said.
Seek the truth.
I hope the next crop circle is larger and more complex.
The -Owl- is perfect with no mistakes.
I enjoy reading the "field reports".
It looks like we are getting the farmers on our side.
I need to get over there and check them out myself.
Google Earth shows plenty of nice hotels in the area.
I hope i can get used to driving on the other side of the road.