“Don’t Tread on Kenny” Because He dosn't have Health Care. , page 1

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Topic started on 10-8-2009 @ 12:02 PM by Animal

Last week, during a scuffle between health care town hall protesters and SEIU members at a town hall hosted by Rep. Russ Carnahan (D-MO), anti-health care reform protester Kenneth Gladley was injured and required hospitalization

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Okay to begin with there is NEVER a reasonable excuse for violence and I deplore its use as a tactic to solve ANY conflict. What happened to Kenny is inexcusable.

That said, how interesting to note that poor Kenny, a critique of Health Care Reform is himself sadly uninsured due to a layoff and the subsequent loss of his coverage.

Gladney did not address Saturday’s crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote. “A few nights ago there was an assault on my liberty, and on yours, too.” Brown read. “This should never happen in this country.”

Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance.

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Under the House’s health care proposal, Gladney would be guaranteed a coverage option and would likely receive a subsidy to purchase affordable health care.

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Well, this is really interesting to me. That someone would be protesting a policy that would be a benefit to them self and those around them only to be injured highlighting the issue at hand. It sucks Kenny got beat up, there is not excuse for the, but it also sucks Kenny has to pay out of pocket like this for care.

Personally, my issues with violence aside, this is a rather comical event. One that perfectly highlights the need for health care reform here in the USA.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by Animal]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 12:30 PM by mikerussellus

reply to post by Animal

You have struck at the heart of this issue. It's not about affordable healthcare. It's about control. In reality, who wouldn't want free, universal healthcare? But in life, nothing is free. This would cost, and at all of our expense. The cost would be a decrease in the quality, quantity in what we already receive.
I will admit that something needs to be done. Tort reform would be a good start, and an honest way of saying that they are really doing something about it.
But they aren't. It is about controling 1/6th of our national economy. It's about taking the responsibility of making medical decisions away from the people who need it and placing it in the hands of those that should mind their own business.
Ours is a unique system that does work. Most industrialized nations come here for care, training, to work. Several analogies come to mind about all of this, from throwing the baby out with the bathwater, to fixing a broken leg by removing a patients lungs.
You should take the time to read the bill (HR3200) and decide for yourself, if this really is the type of reform that you would be willing to pay for.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 12:32 PM by KnoxMSP

Originally posted by Animal

Under the House’s health care proposal, Gladney would be guaranteed a coverage option and would likely receive a subsidy to purchase affordable health care.
link

Well, this is really interesting to me. That someone would be protesting a policy that would be a benefit to them self and those around them only to be injured highlighting the issue at hand. It sucks Kenny got beat up, there is not excuse for the, but it also sucks Kenny has to pay out of pocket like this for care.

Personally, my issues with violence aside, this is a rather comical event. One that perfectly highlights the need for health care reform here in the USA.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by Animal]

We are not against health care reform, we are against THIS BILL. I know you haven't read it, so I will just tell you this is the largest power grab the U.S. Govt' has ever gone for. If you won't bother yourself to read through the bill, you will never understand the opposition to it, so this thread is pointless.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 12:45 PM by Animal

actually i have read it, it seems more so than many whoa re against it as i have repeatedly pointed out the many errors and outright lies stated by those who oppose it.

i would like you, who accuse me of not knowing the substance of this bill to show me, in ITS language, where the power grab lies.

the bill being proposed for example is NOT universal health care, making that assertion is an example of the misconceptions being drawn by those in opposition to this legislation based not on the bills content bu the spin being produced by the right (who fear the success of this bill = their further fall into irrelevance) and the corporate institutions (who stand to loose their economic powers).

this bill will also not limit one's ability to make health care decisions any more than the present system, to make that statement also reveals a massive misunderstanding of the present system and the one proposed.

Ours is a unique system that does work. Most industrialized nations come here for care, training, to work.

Yes people come here for specialized care, but people go to other nations for care as well.

Yes they also come from training and work as well, but they also go to other nations. My father is a medical researcher, specializes in Cardiology. He tends to travel to OTHER nations for work and research meetings because many other nations are ahead of the USA in these terms.

Several analogies come to mind about all of this, from throwing the baby out with the bathwater, to fixing a broken leg by removing a patients lungs.

Which is simply fearmongering hyperbole.

You should take the time to read the bill (HR3200) and decide for yourself, if this really is the type of reform that you would be willing to pay for.

I have and it is.

US health care is defiantly quality care, but only WHEN one can get it. Access being the crux of the problem we face. What good is excellent care if you can not afford it? What good is it when you are left bankrupt from receiving it?

[edit on 10-8-2009 by Animal]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:30 PM by KnoxMSP

I really don't believe you have read the bill to the extent that some of our astute members here have, on top of which they highlighted the biggest issues, and then backed up their claims with the actual parts of the bill itself. I do not see you there refuting any of their evidence, so until you can, it's a moot thread.

I am all for giving people healthcare who cannot afford it. I myself get healthcare through work, and my pregnant wife and child go through CoverKids, an excellent Govt' program available to ANYONE in TN, regardless of income.

I make about $50k/yr and for a family of four that puts me right at the threshhold of being able to afford healthcare for my family myself. Through our Govt' healthcare I have to pay a bit for scripts, and doctor visits, but if I made $5k less everything would be free. How is that not suitable?

I am the exact person you are talking about, I am paying for an ER visit my healthcare doesn't cover, but I'm not complaining. At anytime in my life I could have made sacrifices to have my own healthcare. People just choose not to, and I shouldn't have to pay for it in taxes, and Govt' control. The price is too great.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 04:22 PM by Animal

reply to post by KnoxMSP

still refereeing to threads other than this one as a response?

i [sarcasm] am sure that hr 3200 has been proven a power grab and in appropriate [/sarcasm] by more 'astute' members than me.

however this is not one of those threads is it?

nope, this one is pointing out how incredibly interesting it is that folks such as you an Kenny work to do yourselfs an injustice.

let face it, it is very apparent that the opposition to hr3200 spends most of their time critiquing health care reform, not simply hr3200.

yes, there is a clear movement of those who oppose making any changes to what, even here on ats, is commonly refereed to as the 'best health care in the world'.

so keep on referring to threads you do not even cite. continue to ignore in inherent ignorance and self injury perpetuated by the anti health care crowd, that will not do anything to dispel the FACT that health care in the US needs reform and that poor Kenny's situation is a perfect example of this.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 04:34 PM by KnoxMSP

Originally posted by Animal

so keep on referring to threads you do not even cite. continue to ignore in inherent ignorance and self injury perpetuated by the anti health care crowd, that will not do anything to dispel the FACT that health care in the US needs reform and that poor Kenny's situation is a perfect example of this.

Okay, you don't get it. The reason this bill has opposition is because what they've "included" with their healthcare reform. I would gladly go for a plan that does not mandate the things this does.

It's not about healthcare, if you can't understand that there's no hope. I will go get the thread I referenced then you can read the actual language of the bill and tell me how I'm wrong.

And here you go.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Refute what is being decifered from the bill here, then you will have some credibility. Until then, this bill or any thread related to it's opposition is not about healthcare no matter how hard you wish it to be.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 04:38 PM by mikerussellus

reply to post by Animal

You're comparing apples to oranges.

You state, poor Kenny, wouldv'e been ok if we had universal care, and cite the irony that he was protesting against universal care.

Yet, he wasn't protesting universal care, he was protesting government power grabs and mutilating the healthcare system we now have.

You're operating under a false premise.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 04:40 PM by jam321

FACT that health care in the US needs reform and that poor Kenny's situation is a perfect example of this.

I agree on the above. But wouldn't you agree that if Congress spent more time on creating new jobs that many people, like Kenny, would have a better chance at getting health insurance right now.

In other words, is now the best time to take on healthcare?

How long will it take to implement everything? How long will it take to cover everybody?

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 04:59 PM by MrWendal

I know how Kenny feels. I do not have health coverage of any kind and I refuse to do so. For me, health insurance is a lot like car insurance... you pay money every month just in case something happens, but what do you do if nothing happens? Why can I not have that money back? Of course when you really need that insurance... there are people paid by the insurance company to find any reason they can to deny you. Thus leaving you to hold the bag and solve your problem anyway. As far as I can see it, it is wasted money that I can use elsewhere.

As far as THIS BILL goes... I don't need read it. I already know that our Government screws up everything they touch. I would not trust our Government to run a lemonaide stand, why would I trust them with my health care? I KNOW I can do a much better job deciding everything for myself. This bill is brought to us by the same people who just a couple months ago said, "We didn't think the economy was as bad as it really was" but I KNEW, and I'm expected to trust the government?

Does anyone even wonder why health care cost so much? At the end of the day it is all about profit. People pay tons of money for coverage, hospitals charge more money because it is being paid for by huge profits from insurance companies so of course since they are providing the care, they want a piece of the action. It's all business.... that is all it is and my health and well being have very little to do with any of it.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 05:04 PM by Animal

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by Animal

You're comparing apples to oranges.

You state, poor Kenny, wouldv'e been ok if we had universal care, and cite the irony that he was protesting against universal care.

Please point out where in this thread, or any other thread i argued for 'universal health care'?

Yet, he wasn't protesting universal care, he was protesting government power grabs and mutilating the healthcare system we now have.

Yet he is uninsured. How comical. He is protesting a Public OPTION, a government run program that would operate essentially as private policies do now that would help make certain he would be able to receive coverage.

You're operating under a false premise.

Really? Which?

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 05:05 PM by KnoxMSP

I personally believe we need a universal health INSURANCE plan over universal healthcare. Most adults do not need to see a doctor multiple times a year, I haven't seen a doctor, except for an ER visit, for over 5 yrs. If we had a universal health insurance plan just to HELP pay when it is a major unforseen health need it wouldn't cost as much, and we could make the bill much, much smaller and less imposing.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 05:08 PM by KnoxMSP

Originally posted by Animal

Yet he is uninsured. How comical. He is protesting a Public OPTION , a government run program that would operate essentially as private policies do now that would help make certain he would be able to receive coverage.

Okay, so you didn't read the bill. This bill mandates some indviduals to join there healthcare plan. Not an OPTION.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 05:15 PM by Animal

Originally posted by KnoxMSP
I personally believe we need a universal health INSURANCE plan over universal healthcare.

Wow, what do you think the difference is?

Universal Health Care is health insurance by the way.

Universal health care is health care coverage for all eligible residents of a political region and often covers medical, dental and mental health care. These programs vary in their structure and funding mechanisms. Typically, costs are born, at least in part, by the government. Implementations vary, ranging from single-payer health care systems (e.g. as in Canada or the U.K.), to compulsory, regulated, multi-payer systems (as in France and Germany).

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So it is about the INSURANCE mate.

Universal health care systems also vary according to the extent of government involvement in providing care, ranging from nationalized health care systems (such as the U.K. and Sweden) to decentralized private or non-profit institutions (as in Germany and Canada).

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So maybe you are talking about this element of it, that extent to which government becomes involved in the care itself. It would be interesting to see where in HR3200 you could find examples of the government 'nationalizing' health care services. If you do find any please point them out here, thanks.

Universal health care is implemented in all of the wealthy, industrialized countries, with the exception of the United States.[1] It is also provided in many developing countries.

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Yep, and it shows.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 05:16 PM by Animal

reply to post by KnoxMSP

Who does it REQUIRE to join the public option pool? Shoe me. Please.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 07:04 PM by KnoxMSP

Originally posted by Animal

Wow, what do you think the difference is?

Universal Health Care is health insurance by the way.

No, no it isn't. Health care is regular doctor visits, specialists visits, etc.
Health insurance only covers you in case of major medical problems.
The fact that you don't understand that tells me a lot about your "educated" opinion.

If you're not going to bother reading through the bill, I will not bother myself to explain it to you. I am tired of ignorant discussion, and until you rid yourself of that ignorance on this matter, I'm out.

/thread

[edit on 10-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

[edit on 10-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 07:24 PM by Animal

Originally posted by KnoxMSP

Originally posted by Animal

Wow, what do you think the difference is?

Universal Health Care is health insurance by the way.

No, no it isn't. Health care is regular doctor visits, specialists visits, etc.
Health insurance only covers you in case of major medical problems.
The fact that you don't understand that tells me a lot about your "educated" opinion.

Actually as a paying customer of a health insurance company I can see it is YOU who have no idea of what you are talking about.

CATASTROPHIC health insurance could potentially be what you are talking about but regular health insurance, while vital for the major issues, covers many of the minor issues to a degree as well.

For instance when I got stitches put in my leg a few months ago it helped to pay for that. When I got a black widow bite two months ago, it helped pay for the doctor wist and the meds.

Based on your reply I am willing to bet you are either young enough to still be on mam and dads insurance plan, or if your beyond that you haven't been introduced to the NEED to have coverage your self.

See, with out health insurance doctor visits for even the small stuff is too expensive for many which is one of the major issues pushing reform. Preventative care is essential in the over all scheme.

If you're not going to bother reading through the bill, I will not bother myself to explain it to you. I am tired of ignorant discussion, and until you rid yourself of that ignorance on this matter, I'm out.
[edit on 10-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

Nice avoidance of my taking your last post apart and showing you the errors of your ways. Also, you can keep making the statement that I haven't read some other thread or the bill and therefore ignorant all you want, that will not change the fact I have demonstrated here a better grasp of the issue than yourself. Peace.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 10:30 PM by audas

Perhaps you should all stop and ask countries which already have universal health care if it is good or bad - and that would be EVERY SINGLE WESTERN DEVELOPED NATION - ALL OF THEM - the only one which doesn't is the US and that is why you are considered impoverished and backwards -

So what do we think of it - we would all fire our government in a second if they tried to take it away - only the most profoundly ignorant nation would fight NOT to have it - sheer, blind stupidity of the highest order.

Coming from a country that has the highest living standard on earth - and oh yes - universal health care.

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