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Tale of the Signs - Who are the organized protesters, really?

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posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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There have been a lot of accusations that the protestors that oppose Obama's health care plans have been organized by health care insurance companies, the RNC, etc.

But an examination of the signs and placards used by members of either side of the issue paints a different picture.

For example, look at a typical gathering of opponents of the health care plan:



Homemade signs, different colors, shapes, messages.


Now look at a sampling of health care supporters from the same demonstration.




Uniform color, message, professionally made.


So tell me, who exactly are the 'astroturf' protestors, and who are genuine, from-the-heart protestors?

[edit on 10-8-2009 by jsobecky]




posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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Hey Becky,

Your image of the protestors of healtcare reform is about 1" x .5" inches...can't really make out anything on that one. ETA: You fixed it, thanks


Also, I believe a lot of the supporters of the reform come from AFL-CIO, so that may be why we see some uniformity coming from them.

That being said, I believe that there are many protestors against the reform who believe (rightfully) that what we have now isn't in the best interest of the nation. We do need a way to give all Americans access to health insurance, but I'm not sure if this bill is going to serve the people in the best way in the long haul. I can't say this for sure because the bill's wording is extremely confusing and it's hard to find a break down of it that isn't ideologically driven, which makes the legislation even more suspect.

I do think that there is a corporate and RNC element in the protests, but I just don't get why this is some crazy new thing in the political scene. They both have the right to try and affect the change that they want, just as Liberals and Unions are trying to get this legislation to pass. Both sides have been doing this kind of thing for awhile, so to me it just seems like the MSM is trying to stir the pot as best it can to ramp up the drama.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by Avenginggecko]



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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I know exactly where you are coming from.

Republicans protesting? Before it was only unemployed Democrats that protested. Well now there are alot of people unemployed Republican and Democrat. Kind of levels the playing field.

The nerve of Democrats complaining about organized protests! The leader of the Democrat Party, Mr. Barack Obama, used to be a community organizer. Organizing protests is what they do.

ACORN anyone?



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Kind of interesting in that photo all of the supporters are using the old red-white-blue for their signs. Kind of makes you wonder what the?

I would think if anything the protesters would use the red white and blue but obviously they are not some organized thing just your average jane/joe.

I'm waiting to see supporter implants with Russian colors on it lol.

Edit: Just another observation all the supporters in that pic have name tags on lol.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by Darthorious]



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by Avenginggecko
 


I agree with you. Most protestors that oppose the Obama plan do not deny that changes need to be made to the health care system in America. They just do not believe that his plan is the way to go.


I do think that there is a corporate and RNC element in the protests, but I just don't get why this is some crazy new thing in the political scene. They both have the right to try and affect the change that they want, just as Liberals and Unions are trying to get this legislation to pass. Both sides have been doing this kind of thing for awhile, so to me it just seems like the MSM is trying to stir the pot as best it can to ramp up the drama.


Once again, I agree. Everyone, including the unions and the RNC have a right to get their message out. The MSM is stirring things up, to be sure.

But this is definitely a hot potatoe issue, attracting attention and action from the voters. And they have every right to have their voices heard.

For the current administration to label them as a mob and 'astroturf' is downright despicable.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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It is a conceit of the Democrat's, that they are the only ones who can organize a protest.
The Republicans are just slightly less disliked by the people than the Democrats now. Now it's the pro-health plan people that look like the "corporate stooges"! With all the unions that O has in his pocket it is not very difficult for him to get them out there protesting for him! A nice organized group of minions who would use nice prefabricated signs and name tags!



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Does it matter? I thought it did at first but than I thought about it. Any side of any issue these days will to a certain extent SHOULD have organized protesters as various people work together to get their voices heard. The only thing I would object to is intimidation by ANY side as in physical intimidation or governmental intimidation to the citizen protesters, whether it be to their jobs, their income, their taxes, or incarceration. Or help from the government to one side or the other. The government is supposed to do what we decide as citizens not use the power we gave them to influance our decision one way or the other. If we allow that than soon we have government workers coming to our doors and demanding we do what they tell us or else. Oh sorry, ACORN workers doing the census are already doing that.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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Interesting pictures, it does show something that will make you go humm and haaa.

I guess the deception can not be hidden.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I think that we are all missing an important point here.

This is not a political split of protestors.

One side of the aisle, the protestors with the professionally-made signs, are surely partisan.

But the other side, those with homemade signs, are definitely bi-partisan, and come from all walks of American life.

Just listen to the interviews done to random members of the crowd. You'll hear "I'm A Dem" or "I'm a Repub" or "I'm an Indy".

So, to paint the anti-this-healthcare-plan as rightwing is definitely disingenuous.

PS: Thanks to member Hastobemoretolife for this insight.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
Republicans protesting? Before it was only unemployed Democrats that protested. Well now there are alot of people unemployed Republican and Democrat.


Errr...I'll give you the level playing field thing...but dude, unemployed Democrats are notorious for not getting politically involved. Virtually all of the unemployed would vote Democrat, if they bothered to vote. If all of the unemployed would bother to vote, then Republicans wouldn't have won any Presidential election since LBJ pushed the Civil Rights Act through Congress. But they don't vote. Poor people are notorious for not voting, and not really getting involved in politics.

Maybe you're thinking of college students?

Also, as much as I'd like to scream "MSM Fraud!"...I also have to say that if I were organizing a conspiracy to undercut the opposition, then I'd give them signs that made it look grassroots. I'd take it a step further, and get the alt-news outlets to take pictures of my people, if at all possible (knowing damn well that the MSM wouldn't cover them). Maybe I'm just some eccentric social scientist who thinks of these things, though...


I will say that the Obama-supporter photo is obviously funded by somebody. Manufactured signs don't pay for themselves.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by theWCH]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by theWCH
 



Originally posted by theWCH

Originally posted by RRconservative
Republicans protesting? Before it was only unemployed Democrats that protested. Well now there are alot of people unemployed Republican and Democrat.


Errr...I'll give you the level playing field thing...but dude, unemployed Democrats are notorious for not getting politically involved. Virtually all of the unemployed would vote Democrat, if they bothered to vote. If all of the unemployed would bother to vote, then Republicans wouldn't have won any Presidential election since LBJ pushed the Civil Rights Act through Congress. But they don't vote. Poor people are notorious for not voting, and not really getting involved in politics.


Well, I come from a long line of union members who voted straight down the party lines. And they were some of the most active and vocal walkers of the picket lines when they were on strike or helping to organize a non-union shop. They were also notorious for their 'get out the vote' efforts, even driving vans and busses around town to pick up voters.

And inside the bus? Sitting right beside the seat with the whiskey bottles and the dollar bills was a 'counselor' whose job it was to educate you on the issues.

That's old time Democratic precinct politics. Not homemade signs.


Also, as much as I'd like to scream "MSM Fraud!"...I also have to say that if I were organizing a conspiracy to undercut the opposition, then I'd give them signs that made it look grassroots.


Maybe you would, but the average well-funded pac or union never would. Just get a stack of posters printed up, bring the goons into town, and distribute the signs. Uniform look, uniform message. There is no uniform message on the other side of the street, btw, just a group of citizens with a whole bunch of reasons to be angry and frustrated.


Maybe I'm just some eccentric social scientist who thinks of these things, though...


Well, there's the academic, ivory tower view and then there's the street view.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Well, I come from a long line of union members who voted straight down the party lines. And they were some of the most active and vocal walkers of the picket lines when they were on strike or helping to organize a non-union shop. They were also notorious for their 'get out the vote' efforts, even driving vans and busses around town to pick up voters.

And inside the bus? Sitting right beside the seat with the whiskey bottles and the dollar bills was a 'counselor' whose job it was to educate you on the issues.

That's old time Democratic precinct politics. Not homemade signs.


That may be; but trust me...I'm from the ghetto, and nobody votes. You may hear about people being bussed in to vote, and P.Diddy organizing voters, and "counselors" on the busses. But we don't vote. Some of us made it out to vote for Obama. Most of us didn't. A lot were laid-off Ford/GM workers. Didn't bother to vote. They didn't see a difference between the two realistic candidates.

You're thinking of "working-class" and not "poor." Big difference. We didn't have unions.


Maybe you would, but the average well-funded pac or union never would. Just get a stack of posters printed up, bring the goons into town, and distribute the signs. Uniform look, uniform message. There is no uniform message on the other side of the street, btw, just a group of citizens with a whole bunch of reasons to be angry and frustrated.


Then maybe they should hire me. And, like I said, the Obama-supporters/organizers obviously suck at what they do.


Well, there's the academic, ivory tower view and then there's the street view.


Wow. That is such an ironic statement. The two aren't always mutually exclusive.


[edit on 13-8-2009 by theWCH]



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by theWCH
 




Originally posted by jsobecky
That's old time Democratic precinct politics. Not homemade signs.



That may be; but trust me...I'm from the ghetto, and nobody votes. You may hear about people being bussed in to vote, and P.Diddy organizing voters, and "counselors" on the busses. But we don't vote. Some of us made it out to vote for Obama. Most of us didn't. A lot were laid-off Ford/GM workers. Didn't bother to vote. They didn't see a difference between the two realistic candidates.

You're thinking of "working-class" and not "poor." Big difference. We didn't have unions.


Those laid off auto workers were working-class at one time, and they did vote.

And believe me, I didn't just hear about 'counselors', etc. I saw them with my own two eyes, every election.



Maybe you would, but the average well-funded pac or union never would. Just get a stack of posters printed up, bring the goons into town, and distribute the signs. Uniform look, uniform message. There is no uniform message on the other side of the street, btw, just a group of citizens with a whole bunch of reasons to be angry and frustrated.



Then maybe they should hire me. And, like I said, the Obama-supporters/organizers obviously suck at what they do.


Well, why don't you go ask them for a job. Explain your position. My guess is that they would give you a box of crayons and a poster and tell you to go a. and create your own poster.
No offense intended.


Well, there's the academic, ivory tower view and then there's the street view.


Wow. That is such an ironic statement. The two aren't always mutually exclusive.


Most often they are mutually exclusive. Just look at the condition of our inner cities, where they have conducted their social experiments and you will see it is true.



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