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Ask an Atheist.

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posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by Udontknowme
 


Why do you think atheists hate God? they dont believe in him how can they hate him? Atheists may have a dislike for religion, but that is usually because they feel tricked or fooled by it, and in some cases physically damaged by it.

But

Atheists can be just as caring to the neighbour as a Christian. I am technically a catholic... but that was a label put upon me by my parents, not my current or future beliefs.

but to answer your question about my current beliefs.
I know for a fact that I do not know if my beliefs are right, so i dont know what will happen if i am wrong.

[edit on 10/8/2009 by Irishwolf]




posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by Udontknowme
reply to post by Irishwolf
 


You didn't answer my question.

I don't believe any religion has it right. What religion are you in? That's just as exclusive as asking what cult do you belong to? Religion is exclusive.

But, atheism is a religion in its own right. A deep hatred for a supreme being they don't believe in. What an oxymoron.

Respect God, and you will love Him.

Treat your neighbors well, and they will treat you well.

That's all I've got to say in this thread.


Sorry. Wrong. If I believed He existed, I would hate him with a passion. I'd hate him for all the things he allows to happen in this world.
His only saving grace is that he doesn't exist.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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i would ask an athiest why he doesn't believe in god, but i would have to say to leave out their normal jibber jabber like because of cancer and aids. That is not a jab at any athiests out there, im simply expressing the fact that i want a real answer from your heart.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:28 AM
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I don't believe in the god of the bible, or any religious texts that we have here. Because if God is as he is described in the bible, then he hs done a pretty crappy job for an all knowing all seeing being. The bible has too many plot holes and inaccuracies to be true. Therefore I do not believe in it.

A Creator or higher conciousness though could be possible, nobody knows... and the only ones who know for certain cant tell us, either because they have moved on or are non-existent now.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by kingoftheworld
i would ask an athiest why he doesn't believe in god, but i would have to say to leave out their normal jibber jabber like because of cancer and aids. That is not a jab at any athiests out there, im simply expressing the fact that i want a real answer from your heart.


I guess the simplest answer would be: "Because I don't feel the need to." What makes the argument about suffering /war, cancer, AIDS etc./ jibber jabber? I thought that was one of the most serious arguments you could use?



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman
If we are all expressions of god. then are we not god experiencing what god is not, in order to know what it is ?

How can god know what it is without experiencing what it is not ? But it cannot experience what it is not, so perhaps we are an illusion it created for itself in order to experience what it is not ?


How can one know what god is, if they do not know themselves? Is like trying to understand a forest without understanding first what a tree is.

If you notice in what I said, the very first thing I seen and understood is what the father/god is, and that it was within me and so forth. Meaning, I first understood what I was and knew thyself, then I moved on to bigger concepts of higher things beyond that.

That which is physical/creation is what god is "not". That which experiences the physical, that is father. While god is within all things, he is not all things. So you actually are experiencing and seeing what god is not. The problem is, you all look into the experience/creation itself for god, which is the equivalent of trying to find Bill Gates inside your windows OS.

The bible expresses this as - what is spirit is spirit, and what is flesh is flesh. 2 separate realms. Science is great for the flesh/creation/objective reality. But spirit itself is beyond science, beyond logic.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Voiceoftreason
Now I have a question for the theists among us:

How do you know that "your" religion is the correct one? Out of all the religions in the world, how do you know? Or is believing enough. If so, how so?


I am not exactly a theist, and I think religion is a replacement for god and am in general against it. I love me some Jesus, but I am not a fan of Christianity. Jesus didn't create Christianity, Paul did. And Paul is a fake. But I will answer the question.

Knowledge of the holy is understanding.



Proverbs 9

10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.


So for me, knowing is no different then the way I understand math. How do you know which of the follow expressions are true and which are false?

1+4=5
3+4=28
40+2=32
49+1=50
43+94=2394

You are able to pick out the ones that are false from the ones that are true because you have understanding. Well knowledge of the holy is the exact same way.

Why I dislike religion is because they don't teach or give understanding. Instead, they teach acceptance. So even if they repeat true statements, it's not really any good for them,because they do not understand, and without understanding they can't really apply it to their lives. Anymore than the person who runs around repeating 1+1=2 without understanding how to add is able to use Math in their lives.



Psalm 111

10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.


"Fear" btw in those quotes doesn't mean like be scared like you would if a bear was in your house. It means to respect, to revere, to be in awe of, to recognize etc. Like in the way you are with your parents. One might fear disappointing their parents, but it's not like they are physically scared of them etc.

"Any fool can know. The point is to understand. "— Albert Einstein



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 





How can one know what god is, if they do not know themselves? Is like trying to understand a forest without understanding first what a tree is


Unless your a tree asking the same questions.






If you notice in what I said, the very first thing I seen and understood is what the father/god is, and that it was within me and so forth. Meaning, I first understood what I was and knew thyself, then I moved on to bigger concepts of higher things beyond that.



I don't recall contradicting you





That which is physical/creation is what god is "not". That which experiences the physical, that is father. While god is within all things, he is not all things. So you actually are experiencing and seeing what god is not
.

This is where we differ, I claimed that if god is omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent then for anything to be what is not god, has to be created by god, ie the illusion of what god is not.

The old exhausted no believer knee jerk response to the believer on good bad, is the over done - " If god is good where did bad come from?" I somewhat answered in the proposition I made earlier.

If god is good, then god simply cannot be bad but bad has to have a source,and its' source cannot magically appear out of nothing if god is the creator of "everything".

But if god is good and chose to experience what it is not (bad) then the illusion of bad would serve this purpose, which it could do through us, portions of itself.






The problem is, you all look into the experience/creation itself for god, which is the equivalent of trying to find Bill Gates inside your windows OS.


This is exactly what believers do in order to prove their case, it's either here or the bibles or their experience.






The bible expresses this as - what is spirit is spirit, and what is flesh is flesh. 2 separate realms. Science is great for the flesh/creation/objective reality. But spirit itself is beyond science, beyond logic.


If spirit is beyond logic then why does it need ink and paper to present its' case ?

If spirit is beyond logic why do you bother to defend your case here on ATS surely your attitude would be expected to be less logical than this ?

[edit on 10-8-2009 by moocowman]



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by kingoftheworld
i would ask an athiest why he doesn't believe in god, but i would have to say to leave out their normal jibber jabber like because of cancer and aids. That is not a jab at any athiests out there, im simply expressing the fact that i want a real answer from your heart.


...if that came from your heart, i suggest you see a cardiologist asap...


...to answer your question:...

...i never believed that santa claus existed or the easter bunny or dragons or gods or angels or devils or demons or fairies or leprechauns, etc... even as a child, when fantasies were often presented as real, i didnt buy it... i was interested in the lesson(s) being taught, not the window dressing...

...why i was resistant to that particular brand of indoctrination is anybody's guess but, imo, its just how my brain works... maybe theres a genetic marker that gets triggered and causes people to accept fantasy as reality and i simply dont have that marker... its as good an explanation as any...



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Udontknowme
reply to post by Republican08
 


Just one question.

What if you are wrong?



Nuff said.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Republican08
 


Are you sire you did not become an atheist due to hard times in your life right now? I mean is it you simply lost faith and are angry at "God", I mean my outlook on God is much different than many, but I do believe there is something similar to "God".



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


I try my best to keep personal feelings and rationality, very well separated, although it doesn't work out always.

I am not angry at god, you cannot be angry at an object that isn't there.

Through my understanding, I found god less, and less, and less probable, until ultimately the idea of a god just seemed, as put earlier, silly.

And I usually get led to the same question similar to the chicken and the egg question. Which is analyzed daily, who made god? Well he's forever, well why does he have to exist, why does he have to be eternal?



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
Unless your a tree asking the same questions.


Well what I am saying is that you are a tree asking the question. Know thyself, and what you truly are, and then you can see things beyond that.





This is where we differ, I claimed that if god is omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent then for anything to be what is not god, has to be created by god, ie the illusion of what god is not.


Creation is the thought, not the thinker. Start to imagine a world in your mind. Are those thoughts you? No. But are you still omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent within those thoughts? Yes.



The old exhausted no believer knee jerk response to the believer on good bad, is the over done - " If god is good where did bad come from?" I somewhat answered in the proposition I made earlier.


If god is good, then god simply cannot be bad but bad has to have a source,and its' source cannot magically appear out of nothing if god is the creator of "everything".

But if god is good and chose to experience what it is not (bad) then the illusion of bad would serve this purpose, which it could do through us, portions of itself.


To know both good and bad is understanding. And when you look at creation you are basically looking at information/a limited view of "gods knowledge". What makes something "good" is the wisdom to choose such a thing.

Do you know bad/evil things? Yes you do. But it is your wisdom that you do not choose such things.

Wisdom is using the knowledge, understanding and experiences in order to make the correct choices.



This is exactly what believers do in order to prove their case, it's either here or the bibles or their experience.


I quote the bible to show the understanding. My experiences are only good for me, no good for you. So even though I speak from my experience doesn't mean I except you to accept or believe that experience. What good would that be for you? Absolutely none at all. I am saying you need to be more open minded in general when I speak of my experiences.



If spirit is beyond logic then why does it need ink and paper to present its' case ?

If spirit is beyond logic why do you bother to defend your case here on ATS surely your attitude would be expected to be less logical than this ?


First, it doesn't need ink and paper, which is the main point. People are using the ink and paper as a replacement for things. And yet, you are also allowing it as a replacement yourself if you debate based off those things.

Religion and the bible are replacements for god. Not the real thing. But, after you find the real thing then the bible and the things it says makes a little more sense. But people elevate those things into authority, and it keeps people from seeing beyond it. So it's backwards.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
Why do you not think it silly to consider anything which is beyond your limited perspective is by default false?


I'd take issue with the "by default false" part of your statement and replace it with "by default unworthy of belief".
The same as you consider, I'm sure, pink unicorns, invisible teapots, and purple dragons to be unworthy of belief.

Yet I'm sure you don't consider it "silly" to hold such a neutral (yes, neutral) stance where fictional (or perhaps nonfictional?
) creatures are concerned
.




Originally posted by badmedia
Doesn't really work all that well for the ostrich.


No, maybe not...
But then again, who's counting?



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Republican08
And I usually get led to the same question similar to the chicken and the egg question. Which is analyzed daily, who made god? Well he's forever, well why does he have to exist, why does he have to be eternal?


He is eternal because time doesn't really exist and is just an illusion of a limited perception.

Take a movie film. Stretch it from end to end. You are viewing the entire film at once. You are "all knowing" about that film there. In such a state, it has no time, it has no change.

Only if you take that same film, view it in a limited perspective of 1 frame one after the other does the movie have "time", does it have change and so forth. In programming and such, it's called "runtime". Where the "runtime" determines the frequency in which the frames change.

See the difference in perspective there? Well that is the difference between father(god) and son(you). We are each the father deep within, but we are in a limited perspective in order to watch the movie and have the experience of the movie.

But it's not just a single film, but many films. That allows for choice rather than a directors cut.

God is pure consciousness. And it is eternal and nothing came before that because - there would have been nothing to perceive things before it.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by TruthParadox
I'd take issue with the "by default false" part of your statement and replace it with "by default unworthy of belief".
The same as you consider, I'm sure, pink unicorns, invisible teapots, and purple dragons to be unworthy of belief.

Yet I'm sure you don't consider it "silly" to hold such a neutral (yes, neutral) stance where fictional (or perhaps nonfictional?
) creatures are concerned
.


I just wish people would take the honest opinion of "I do not know one way or the other". That is all. And that includes people of "faith/believers" and also nonbelievers. To simply believe one way or the other is to lie to yourself and that is not honest.

That's all I look for, honesty. For people to take a hard and honest look at things. When you "believe" or "disbelieve", then you stop seeking beyond it. You are putting yourself in a box.

To me, atheists and theists are just alike in this manner. They do not know, and so instead of admitting that, it's replaced with belief or disbelief. Why is disbelief no different? Because it is still based off the same beliefs as those who do believe.

The 2 honest positions IMO are agnostic and gnostic. You either know or you don't. You either know how to cook a pizza, or you don't. You either know how to program your TV, or you don't. etc. Belief about those things is useless no matter what the belief is. And again, disbelief is really a belief.

At best, all we can prove or disprove are the claims themselves, not god.

Time for people to start being honest about these things, and let go of belief/disbelief.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
I just wish people would take the honest opinion of "I do not know one way or the other". That is all.


Many atheists readily admit there is no way to know one way or the other.
In fact, that's one of our main arguments against theism.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by TruthParadox
 


To say you do not know is agnostic. And that is completely different than atheism. Atheist believes there is no god. It it not a lack of belief, it is a belief there is no god. And they actively argue against the entire idea of god.

If it was lack of belief, as claimed then they would not be arguing for or against a belief.

What do atheists do? They make their case for why they believe there is no god. That is not saying I do not know.

There is a difference in the 2.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Republican08
This Thread is to be for Information and Answer and Questions.


Do you believe that something can come from nothing?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
I just wish people would take the honest opinion of "I do not know one way or the other". That is all.


...i would suggest that you go first, preacher, but you got holes in your drawers and its showin' stuff thats scaring the horses...




And that includes people of "faith/believers" and also nonbelievers.


...theres no such thing as a non-believer... except for those who are clinically brain dead, everyone believes something...



To simply believe one way or the other is to lie to yourself and that is not honest.


...if you're saying thats true of you, fine - but - if you're suggesting its true of everyone, then thats a very rude presumption... if the latter is the case, i suggest the culprit is the character flaw which inables you to be oblivious to the holes in your drawers...



That's all I look for, honesty.


...your definition of honesty is different than mine...



For people to take a hard and honest look at things. When you "believe" or "disbelieve", then you stop seeking beyond it. You are putting yourself in a box.


...lets talk about your box...


...you claim you're not a theist... you claim you were once an atheist but "saw the light" and morphed into your current belief system... you've made the disclaimer that your way is just for you - but - thats disingenous at best when you follow up by calling everyone who doesnt believe as you do dishonest...

...your words "god (the father) me (the son)" are theistic and your belief in that makes you a theist regardless of the window dressing you've used to attempt to disguise your version of theism... that you deny being a theist and claim you are a "whatever" is dishonest...



To me, atheists and theists are just alike in this manner. They do not know, and so instead of admitting that, it's replaced with belief or disbelief.


...how do you know they dont know?... answer: you dont...




Why is disbelief no different? Because it is still based off the same beliefs as those who do believe.


...thats absolute nonsense which translates to - for a person to not believe that our moon is made of cheese, they would first have to believe that our moon is made of cheese...



The 2 honest positions IMO are agnostic and gnostic. You either know or you don't. (snipped)


...so, iyo, everyone falls into those two categories, huh?... theres no room (in your box) for other possibilities - everyone has to be either or - everything is black or white, unless you say its grey... how horridly boring - so, i'll presume the holes in your drawers are intentional comic relief...




Belief about those things is useless no matter what the belief is. And again, disbelief is really a belief.


...so, the only beliefs acceptable to you are the beliefs of those who dont know if a god exists or not (agnostic) and the ones who claim they know for sure that a god exists (gnostic theists, which is what you are)...

...iow: you see a fence with people (agnostics) sitting on it and you see people (gnostic theists) on one side of the fence - but - there is no other side of the fence and, so, there can be no people on the other side of the fence... furthermore, anyone who claims they are on the other side of the fence are merely confused because the other side of the fence doesnt exist... (que outer limits music, lmao)...

...(que twilight zone music and rod sterling's voice):... every coin has two sides and an edge... on one side of this particular coin are atheists (no belief in the existence of gods)... on the other side of the coin are theists (believes in the existence of gods)... the edge between the two sides is a very crowded place... running down the middle of the edge are agnostics (dont know if they believe in the possibility of gods or not)... on the outer edge that trims the atheist side are the "dont give a hoots"... on the outer edge that trims the theist side are deists (think they're their own god)... and, THEN, theres the sheet merchants who service both sides and the edge - and - they're the truly magical ones cuz, even after thousands and thousands and thousands of years, they've never run out of sheet...




At best, all we can prove or disprove are the claims themselves, not god.


...i dont need proof to validate my belief there is no such thing as a god... even when i was a little kid, i recognized fantasy when i heard it or saw it... no one had to tell me that santa claus was pretend or that his story had creepy attributes - ditto for mother goose and god...



Time for people to start being honest about these things, and let go of belief/disbelief.


...thats your belief and disbelief of others beliefs and disbeliefs - too funny, lmao...



[edit on 8/13/09 by Wyn Hawks]



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