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posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


BTW, just in case you didn't know, there used to be, and there might be still some, Republicans who are staff members, just like there are Liberals, and Democrats, and from other parties. can people who are in the "right" side of politics not have a voice in these forums? Is that what you are trying to say?

[edit on 10-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]




posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


i think the translation of what he said goes something like this:

the usa is a mess and it's the fault of hard right wingers, who he mistakenly thinks are primarily christians, because this is how the press presented it to the public -- repubs were all hard rignt christians, demos were all left wingers. of course, there are lots of moderates on both sides. but ya don't hear about them cause there's no drama in it



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 06:50 AM
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Both sides of the political spectrum are full of crap nowadays.

The left expects me to raise money for their puppets and when those puppets are elected, they don't do a damn thing. I'd love to tell MoveOn where to stick it.

The right wants to bring down Obama and only Obama. It's all Obama birth this, Obama birth that with some of these folks.

There must be a collective amnesia of the past 8 years because even though the Left is back in power, NOTHING'S CHANGED. We're still in two wasteful wars and up to our ears in debt. I bet G.W Bush is clearing brush and laughing his ass off in Dallas.

Regardless, we can move beyond the hare-brained bird that represents both wings of American politics. Shoot it down and stuff it.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
..................
I agree with this especially in light of ATS. The Right wing Christian thing though is IMHO is what has caused the middle class to fall so far and the corporate giant to gain such power.

Its more than an opinion...I am also a gifted intuitive, when I am not doing my duty as a Firefighter I do readings for people. The right wing movement is in this time for a reason. They are here at this time to bring the dark so we can see where the light is coming from.


I am sorry but now you are just bordering on the absurb. I am also a "gifted intuitive" and the "right wing movement" did not "bring in the dark so that you can see where the light is coming from", that is nothing more than a red herring on your part.

First of all, you are probalby one of the people who believes the Feds should not exist, or at least not have the power they have, which I agree with. But who was it that put the Feds in power? oh that's right a Democrat, Woodrow Wilson.

There has been a loong pushing for an agenda, which started with the Democrats, but even REpublicans in power have gotten into, and are supporting this agenda now, so both sides have done harm. But at the end, and if you look at the policies which are being implemented you can see that in fact the only way for a "One World Govermnet", and a "One World Economy" to exist, is to convert at least the most powerful nations into Socialism.

Socialism is one of the few forms of governments that allows for nations to lose sovereignty, and for people to lose "individual rights" for "collective rights".

The end game is Socialism, or even Communism since Socialism is but a stage to convert a nation from Capitalism into Communism.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by audas
 


well that's the problem, they aren't the facts.
they are only your opinion, which is not necessarily any more factual than my opinion.

for example, the idea that christians can't be environmentalists.
do you know how many democrats and environmentalists are christians and that there are even socialist christians? there's not a party line! remember this if you don't remember anything else i said... there's not a party line! it's not set in stone. nothing ever is.

as far as biblical texts are concerned -- there's a lot of christian based texts out there. heck the catholic bible has more books in it than the protestant one does. and the mormons have the bible and then their own extra bible to boot, called the book of mormon.

christianity isn't the worship of a book. it's the worship of a deity. the book is helper material and it isn't isolated to just that book or christians wouldn't read anything else...ever.




No it is NOT my opinion - it is a fact.

Further I never said - ever - that one can not be an environmentalist - I said religions tend to usurp the ideas of others, such as environmentalists and assimilate them into the teachings of the Church - environmentalism and socialism are not diametrically opposed to the Church - Buddhism and evolution are.

Further Catholics, Protestants and even Mormons are ALL CHRISTIANS and they are all based on the SAME Bible - the fact that they have been re-written and the rules changed by men - such as Henry the 8th in order to get a divorce on reinforces my argument that the indicate that God must have been wrong - these are all still theologies based upon the biblical principal - these are statements of fact.

trying to claim that you can be whoever you want to be, and be whatever religion you want to be is also true - however for you to claim this also means you are committing a cardinal sin and admitting that what God has stated is wrong - and that you do not believe what he says and is therefore wrong and therefore does not exist.

Further if you do not believe in what the bible, or the church, is teaching you and you have your won views and have made up your own religion is part part Hindu, part Buddhist part Christian then you are agreeing with 100% that the rigid indoctrination of the church should be questioned -

Those who DO NOT believe in the Church or God believe in freedom of religion, or garnering moral and ethical "truisms" wherever they may lie - Christians believe in their teachings of their denomination - hence you are not a Christian - you merely agree with some of the "values" expressed in the bible as does every other atheist -



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


BTW, just in case you didn't know, there used to be, and there might be still some, Republicans who are staff members, just like there are Liberals, and Democrats, and from other parties. can people who are in the right side of politics not have a voice in these forums? Is that what you are trying to say?


Politics is not welcome on ATS in my view - those people who are so far below having an awareness that they even 'believe' in politics should not post - they should continue to read research and understand - until they realize that politics is simply another form of mind control.

Those who are for or against Obama for example, should study more - he is irrelevant - his policy is dictated to him.

Those who are religious should examine their beliefs, and concern their minds with who benefits, and who promotes religion.

The discussions regarding socialism and capitalism are idealogical, and not political - so they are useful - I think communism is a construct of the scum controllers - and that pure capitlism (which has not existed anywhere in the world for about 100 years) represents the natural order of things.

There is no difference betwen the political parties - they all obey the shadow controllers - there are a few individuals (who cares what they call themselves?) that are useful and aware in the political arena - they should be supported - left, right, middle or outer space - those lables are purely distractions.

ATS is a place for students of history, detectives of hidden evidence, agnostics of religion, skeptics of science, political athiests and idealogical revolutionaries.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


Do what you want to........ nobody is stopping you


You will miss a lot of good threads here though what with the bombardment of ufo sightings and the over paranoid & sometimes dillusional conspiracy theorists!!!!



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by audas
 


bible still doesn't say henry 8 can get a divorce without it being a spiritual issue, so that's not right either.
in fact, if you want to be strictly biblical about it, it still says what it said before about divorce. no change. the only thing that changed was henry, who made up his own church with its own priests so he could get his divorce "legally." what's that got to do with me? want me to blame you for something someone with your name did 400 years ago?

next, the sumerian-akkadian EN-LIL (EN MEANT LORD, LIL MEANT AIR/SKY/HEAVEN, LIL BECAME IL, IL BECAME EL, etc) was the biblical EL (Elohiym), who is JEHOVAH/YAHWEH. he was THE environmentalist. he told gilgamesh not to chop down the cedar trees to build his city, claiming they wouldn't grow back, but gilgamesh did it anyway.
and they didn't grow back.

oh ye of little viewpoint, lend me your thinking cap so i may fill it with thousands of years of data you were never taught.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


Oh yeah, Enki and En-lil or something like that.

Second line.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by Janitor From Mars]



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by audas

No it is NOT my opinion - it is a fact.



There are no 'FACTS' - there is no 'TRUTH' - nothing can be proved or disproved - the sum of any humans knowledge is approximately zero, for most it is EXACTLY zero.

Knowledge and understanding depend on the realization that truth does not exist, and that we cannot 'know' anything. While you still believe - while you think there is such a thing as truth - then your knowledge is exactly zero - and can't go above that point. Everytime you recieve a piece of knowledge, you turn it into a fact, truth or false - and in so doing you destroy it.

Understanding is based on knowledge - pieces of evidence that we acquire without respect to catagorizing them true or false - we simply fit them into a model, and then test that against reality. A working model is not true - it is simply a way of understanding what is happening, and can be constantly updated to fit new knowledge.

Beliefs on the other hand don't depend on knowledge - they cannot be updated, they have to be destroyed and replaced by new beliefs - no advancement is ever made - simply a changing of the bars and locks on the prison of your mind.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by LoneGunMan




Did you actually know that this nation was founded by Christians who saw themselves as Republicans?


Um - actually America which was settled by Puritans, achieved independance and attained its nation status with the declaration of independance after the war of independance, the GOP and republian party only came into effect in the 1850's in reponse to the Whigs and Dems as a response to expansionist slavery. Soooooo not sure where your going with that one - further there the vast majority of evidence points to committed atheists amongst the founding fathers.




Do people like you have any idea of what being a Republican really means?

It doesn't mean being a Christian, I am not a Christian.



It doesn't mean being pro-corporate. Corporations should not be above the law, and they certainly should not be in power.


Finally something bordering on the truth.

And then you just throw it away....


Being a Republican means being an advocate of the Republic, which is what the United States of America is.


You see this is just a generalistic praochialism which bears no relation to the intrinsic to Republicanism - Democrats, and even North Koreans can be an advocate for the Republic


Being a Republican is being against all forms of dictatorships.


Again, this is simply a limp wristed reach to universal ethics - there is nothing defining of republicanism in this statement - you might as well say Republicans are against rape - simply not even relevant to defining Republicanism.


Being a Republican is believing in defending, and upholding the Constitution of the United States, the Bill of Rights within it and understanding what the forefathers of this nation meant when they wrote the Declaration of independence.


So you are referring to the forefathers - which was half a decade before the republicans were even formed - hmmmmm. History again falling short here. Again I think you will find that your attempts to associate REpublicanism with upholding the constitution is a non sequitur - it simply makes no sense - epsecially in light of the patriot act.

It seems you have a vague amorphous concept of the term Republic and have some how confused this with Republicanism - you see America is only a republic in so far as it does not have a king - thats it. End of story - France is a republic, as is North Korea or Iran - they have no King. It is a state run by the public, res public.

You then wander off from your anochronistic diatribe of conflated politcal theories into a a vociferous partisan political polemic -


I'll continue being a Republican until the day I die even if the Republican party ceases to exist, and you know why? because being a Republican doesn't depend on a party which for the most part has succumbed to greed just like all Democrats in power have.


Yes I'm sure they all have......

Overall another gem of factual illiteracy conflated with personal indifference to reality which I thought should be addressed for the sake of maintainind some semblance of truth.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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just for the record, i'm an independent. i dont give a rats posterior what letter is at the end of your name. just be constitutional. with that said.

It seems that most that are whining here are liberals of either party. No suprise. Spoiled children demanding their "instant titty".

The last 20 years have been rife with what should be considered conspiracy. the last 8.75 to be sure. The obamasiah has taken the engine given to him by bush and supercharged it! bush turned the key that cranked up the "ussa".

When everything here we warn against, think of, and "what if" happens...you know something is up. The obamasiah is an answer to all that. socialism every ten feet.

The folks that seem to have a prob with christians (i'm pagan) seem to have no problem with the fed's calling for informants.

Obey? yeah. right.

i'm tired of " oh its just the republicans sore cuz bama won". No, its because we who believe in self determination, the constitution, national borders (no its not a bad thing) and the ability to DEFEND all of it! Democrats are pro-america too you know.

You want to be a weak little "lotus eater"? Go for it. You'll be sent to the mines with the rest of the troglodytes. The rest of us will resist.

Get over your sense of being "owed".



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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Right or left, zombies or whatevers, oh and birthers, love that one the best. This country is lost and their will be a revolution of the people. Our so called comfort zones are evaporating. Millions of not just fat people but severly obese and on and on it goes. You reap what you sow and I only point the finger (I think its called a bird or something) at those who have spued this evil and corruption.

Look at our so called government (of the people, I wished). Wake up and realize this is a reality that many do not want to include myself. What choice do I or others have (to see or not to see the truth). This islamic demon will and is craming this evil down our throats. ATS is changing as this "new reality" unfolds. You can denie it but not for long as we will eventually face a fininacial collapse....(global)....such as the world has never witnessed because of the scale. Continue to denie the truth and stay a sleep it soon want matter what side you are on. Depopulation (as these evil freaks crawl underground) along with complete control will and is the NWOs agenda. Right or left, up or down its here to stay but it want last forever. Thank God!!



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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eh we just need a jubilee (biblical, which see), forgive everyone their debts (world wide, all the nations are in debt!). erase everyone's indebtedness. problem solved.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by audas
 


bible still doesn't say henry 8 can get a divorce without it being a spiritual issue, so that's not right either.
in fact, if you want to be strictly biblical about it, it still says what it said before about divorce. no change. the only thing that changed was henry, who made up his own church with its own priests so he could get his divorce "legally." what's that got to do with me? want me to blame you for something someone with your name did 400 years ago?

next, the sumerian-akkadian EN-LIL (EN MEANT LORD, LIL MEANT AIR/SKY/HEAVEN, LIL BECAME IL, IL BECAME EL, etc) was the biblical EL (Elohiym), who is JEHOVAH/YAHWEH. he was THE environmentalist. he told gilgamesh not to chop down the cedar trees to build his city, claiming they wouldn't grow back, but gilgamesh did it anyway.
and they didn't grow back.

oh ye of little viewpoint, lend me your thinking cap so i may fill it with thousands of years of data you were never taught.


Please read my posts and respond to them - you are clearly not even reading them and that is simply disrepsectful.

I have clearly stated that Henry 8th is a clear and eminent example of man changing the world god to suit his whims - indicating it is a man made religion. The only assect of the church or Christianity which can have any claim to being related to God is what was written down in the bible - anything else is merely a mans word and meaningless -

Hence - FALSE and is in complete denial of the existence of God -


Further, and I'll put this at the bottom to see if you are even reading my responses, if you insert any more laughing symbols which are designed to mock and denigrate my intellect I will end this conversation - further if you insinuate anything about my intellect again I will also end this conversation - you have asked me some questions - you have been responded to in a manner which quite comprehensively undermines your arguments and position and instead of responding to these arguments are ignoring them, trolling me, and behaving immaturely -

So lets hear your response to my arguments - otherwise I will presume you are cornered and have nothing clue -



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:34 AM
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For what little it's worth I honestly believe ATS has deteriorated for a number of reasons but mainly due to a lot of the more able members becoming moderators and thus not contributing anywhere near as much as they used to in debates / threads etc.

About a year or so ago there seemed to be a spate of bannings with some of the more colourful but also interesting members getting banned.

For some reason it seems as if a handful of very able members just disappeared.

There is still very much quality here on ATS, it is just at the moment it seems quite rare and it requires much searching to find it.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:34 AM
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reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 


New rules?

Please explain.

Cause self expression is what makes ATS what it is.

Are the "new rules" to squash that if so that is censorship (sorry for the spelling) but if that is the case I also will be leaving ATS.

Please let us know.

Need more info...



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by audas
 


take my word for it, if i address every one of your comments this thread would turn into a biblical debate. take a gander at my stargates are real thread. it's 2 years old, 200 pages long and filled with aLOT of biblical and extra-biblical information. you don't want that here.

i will say however, you are addressing this from the venacular of the catholic perspective, using such terminology as "cardinal", is a clue. the word doesn't exist in the biblical texts. it does say that as a believer i'm now the temple of god, not a building. shal we go on a scripture quoting binge?

and i have proven that as regards god of the bible, he was an environmentalist before any of us were born. and i always smile at the end of sentences that i find ironic.

you are really mean ya know that?
i'm not allowed to believe what i believe because you say i can't and still be what i claim to be even though you really don't know what i believe. (insert laughing face cause it's so ironic!)



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:40 AM
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See my signature... they say 'Make ATS what I want it. Thus!

I report every hair out of place and a**hole I run across.



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by Ex
It is getting so boring, the name calling and utter insults
if one disagrees with another.

Starred & Flagged for honesty!


But isn't that exactly what the op is doing?

Name calling to make a point?

Just asking idk myself.

I don't hate Christian's or jew's or muslim's.
But i got my opinion and i will speak it.
Do i watch tv nope.




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