Russia Holds US Humvees as Trophies, page 2
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reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 12:53 AM by john124
reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


The Russian Propaganda War Rages On

So... not only me who thinks that the Russian media are going over the top with this.

The state-owned Vesti television station, for example, is meant to be a news channel, but it spent most of Friday rebroadcasting year-old footage. The same Georgian rocket launchers shelled Tskhinvali, the same Russian tanks rolled down dusty Ossetian roads, and the same South Ossetian civilians wept as their villages burned. At intervals of about 45 minutes Russian representatives in the United Nations denounced the Georgian attack and Western complicity in it.

It may have been the sheer power of repetition that made it was hard to remember that this is an anniversary, not a reenactment. The effort to give a historical twist to the coverage was only more confusing - again, the same footage, but this time in back and white with the cigarette-burn blotches and streaky distortions of a mid-twentieth century newsreel.

Whether or not that was a conscious attempt to elevate August 2008 to the same historical footing of May 1945, or just the work of a producer with a sense for the dramatic, the effort put into it and the time devoted to it points to one important fact: for mainstream Russian media organizations, and the officials who control them, the propaganda war they fought last year is not over.


Lavrov did admit that the Russians themselves “could have been more active” in their PR efforts, and for the past week they seem to have been making up for that. Both the mainstream media and the Russian state have rolled out the same faces and tactics they fielded last year in an effort to get that point home once more.

First up was Colonel General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, a deputy chief of the Russian General Staff, who on Wednesday called a press conference to reprise his August 2008 role as spokesman for the Russian war and describe how one year ago Georgian pilots used aircraft with Russan markings to attack a column of refugees fleeing Tskhinvali. A report he had apparently held onto for the past 12 months.


Well at least Lavrov was honest for once. And the information held onto by the general... puhhleeassee... it's as ridiculous as the claims of captured Israeli and American troops. Yeah Russian's hold onto supposed information and expects us to believe their stories! Fools! And repetitive fools as well!

[edit on 10-8-2009 by john124]


reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 02:33 AM by john124
Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Originally posted by john124
Anyway I'm not surprised people here and elsewhere are taken in with foreign propaganda from Russia, and often from Iran, as some people still believe that Apollo 11 Moon landing was hoaxed... so a good number of humans are clueless people. That figure is quite high!

I know you will probably end up replying with the same repeated worn out reply that US news is propaganda etc.
[edit on 9-8-2009 by john124]


hahaha, I have no reason to argue with you because I know the facts and the more I talk about them, the stronger you'll push your defense mechanism to hide away from truth. In this world, there is no right path and no perfect path. There are just paths and the path that you end up on is up to you. If you keep believing in the same path, then you'll end up only in circles. I used to be like that, then I grew a pair and now the world is a much easier place to understand.


Hmmm if you have the facts that don't agree with my analysis, then I presume you have proof, or have seen proof. What have you seen?

The Russian's seem unwilling to provide such proof, therefore only validating my assertion that they are talking out of their arse with lies and propaganda. Oh the Russian's claim a lot, and even come out with more claims 1 year later that they somehow forgot before.

Farcical leadership going on in the Kremlin indeed. Much like yourself really.... are you part of the Russian Federation maybe?!

I put it to you that it is a failure of Russian PR and leadership by not being able to provide the evidence or proof of Georgian aggression before Russian aggression.

And this whole path nonsense you are going about makes about as much sense as the Russian propaganda. Oh you're probably part of it so actually it does make sense

And you are going round in circles like a Russian propaganda parrot. Keep providing the entertainment.

As Sergei Ivanov says on newsnight last year: "We don't have tanks in S.Ossetia"

"Are you sure?" says Paxman.

"we err yes we have tanks in S.Ossetia... err yess yess they are peacekeepers, yes that's what they are peacekeepers" says Ivanov.

"What about reports of tanks raiding the port town of Poti, and sinking Georgian vessels?!" says Paxman.

"NO! We do not do such a thing... we are peacekeepers... we are here to protect russian citizens" says Ivanov.

"Hmmm. Mr Ivanov. I put it to you we have videos of Russian troops sinking georgian vessels and towing away American Humvees!" says paxman.

"(curses in background....)nobody told me about that" whispers Ivanov.

"Are you still there Mr. Ivanov" asks paxman.

"Yes we are here.... all we can say is Russian troops from Russian federation are on peacekeeping mission" snarls Ivanov.

"Inside of Georgia proper??? what peacekeeping activities are needed there?" asks paxman.

And the cycle of absurdity from the Russian Kremlin goes on and on and on.....

Oh and are the Russian kremlin going to take down ATS with denial of service attacks because somebody wrote a disagreeing blog?

Well no... because most people here believe the Russians. Again that is hilarious!!!!!

[edit on 10-8-2009 by john124]


reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 03:12 AM by john124
Originally posted by Now_Then
I just thought I'd throw this one in on this thread (not trying to derail of course... I just didn't think that it warranted a thread of it's own)

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian investigators are probing the illegal sale of four fuselages of MiG-31 interceptor fighter jets that were sold off for as little as $5 (2.98 pounds), although worth $3.7 million each, RIA news agency said on Thursday.
linky poos

I just thought it was funny given the topic


Hahahaahaaa hilarious!!! Get in!!! I'll have one comrade send me one over, actually make it 2 I can spare £6!!!

The Russian's make me laugh so hard my sides are almost splitting. It's your find, well done!

Make a thread about it mate, before somebody else does.

I wonder if the US or Georgia or Ukraine, or even Israel bought these on the black-market just to show who's boss!!


[edit on 10-8-2009 by john124]



reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 03:22 AM by Now_Then
reply to post by john124


Ahh you can have it... There's enough Ivan to go round!


reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 06:26 PM by maloy
OH THE HUMANITY

However will poor American taxpayers cope with the tremendous loss to Pentagon's balance sheets of several HUMVEES? Just think about it - as much as a hundred thousand dollars lost to evil Russia.

Forget the hundreds of millions of dollars US provided to arm Saakashvili's regime, which were all pretty much wasted when he started the South Ossetia War by attacking a civilian city and headquarters of peacekeepers mandated by UN. Forget the tens of millions of dollars worth of training and military advice offered to Saakashvili just prior to his aggressive endeavor.

NO - those millions were well spent. They enabled a little flourishing brave "democracy" (with a leader who came to power through a coup and represses all opposition) to rain down artillery shells on a civilian city without any prior warning. Those millions did their job in paving the way for Georgia to kill over a dozen Russian peacekeepers stationed in Tskhinvali by a UN mandate.



Instead of questioning why the US spend hundreds of millions (and upwards of over a billion $) to fund a dictator labeled by an EU commission as the "aggressor" in the August War, US will raise a stink about no more than a hundred thousand dollars worth of trucks.




How about this - hundreds of innocent people lost their lives, and tens of thousands were displaced, because of a maniac US-sponsored puppet. Go to Tskhinvalli and ask the locals who managed to survive how they feel about you precious HUMVEES.


reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 07:05 PM by maloy
Originally posted by john124
no real proof to confirm that Georgia attacked before tanks were sent through the tunnel.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

There you go. An original thread on the war - documenting the actual timeline of events. Russian tanks were first reported to enter the tunnel around 10 am on August 8th, which is about 12 hours after Georgia shelled Tskhinvali and itself announced that it is launching an attack on South Ossetia.


Originally posted by john124
Georgia has evidence that a 2nd group of tanks were coming thru' before attacking.


And where is Georgia keeping this evidence? Or did Saakashvili eat it, mistaking it for a tie?


Originally posted by john124
And I would be willing to state that it's likely Russia killed more civilians than Georgia..


Will you be willing to state that on the basis of any actual facts?



Originally posted by john124
Where do you think the Iranian regime gets its propaganda ideals from??


Because no one except Russia has a propaganda strategy right?

How is the search for the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq going by the way?


Originally posted by john124
Secondly, Russia were claiming 1,500 people had been killed, when in fact that figure was much much lower (162 according to Russia on wikipedia).


Do you care for me to site some of the fatality figures thrown around in the US during 9/11? Some innitial ones were upwards of 20,000. All that proves is that chaos may lead to indefinite figures.


Originally posted by john124
And what was the purpose of Russia's little excursion into Georgia proper all about eh??!! Why take over Poti, why go so far South into Georgia proper??


Ok - so if Russians "took over" Poti, care to explain why they are not there now? Or why they were no there even in September of last year?



Originally posted by john124
Why steal NATO equipment and US Humvees, that aren't theirs to take!!


Were the lives of civilians in Tskhinvali Saakashvili's to take? Was Iraq America's to take? Boo hoo - the US flushed down hundreds of billions of dollars on the Iraq War. How much of a dent does several HUMVEES make on your budget?


Originally posted by john124
Obviously Georgia will not try and re-take S.Ossetia. they wouldn't fight a war they cannot win knowing they don't have NATO backing.


All they need is Pentagon's backing. And Biden seemed to be cuddling up with Saakashvili on his recent visit.



Originally posted by john124
Georgia would have too much to lose if it attempted to retake the lost territory, but Russia still insists Georgia must not arm itself.


Why does US insists that Iran and Syria must not arm themselves? Meanwhile Iran and Syria started no wars for decades, and Georgia started a war last year. Hypocrisy? Couldn't be.


Originally posted by john124
And what's this all about when the Russian's won't allow EU monitors into S.Ossetia and Abkhazia.


They allowed monitors on the border. Monitors are no allowed inside, because the said monitors refuse to recognize South Ossetia's independence.


Originally posted by john124
It's funny how Russia Today uses American terminology to appeal to Americans, who are naive & gullible enough to believe their one-sided propaganda which is often a lie.


How many Americans are exposed to Russian media? 2%? 1%? And how many are exposed to Western Media - which proved to be no less biased during the conflict?


Originally posted by john124
Did you know that S.Ossetia has traditionally been part of Georgia for over 1000 years?


No. Care to provide a reliable source for that info?

Did you know the history of Georgia and its borders, and why its king asked to become part of Russian Empire hundreds of years ago?


Originally posted by john124
I could argue that it is in Russia's best interests to let the S.Ossetian's provoke the Georgian's into another conflict, which gives Russia the opportunity to invade the rest of Georgia.


Then explain why Russia did not invade Georgia during last year's war. it had the capability to do so, and US demonstrated unwillingness to directly interfere.


Originally posted by john124
Have you watched Russia Today (RT) on TV, that is directed at the west and especially the US, as it's in english with a few versions in other languages??? All they show is S.Ossetia all day.... with their one-sided bias!!


Have you watched Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, BBC etc? Amazingly they show no bias what so ever, and are never selective in which news they report and which they leave out.



Originally posted by john124
OK... last years war and the anniversary are important, but it's not the only news to broadcast.


Of course not. They should have more coverage of Michael Jackson's death. In fact they should dedicate a whole week to coverage on Michael Jackson's death - taking the example of their Western media counterparts.


[edit on 10-8-2009 by maloy]


reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 10:48 PM by john124
reply to post by maloy


Ok - so if Russians "took over" Poti, care to explain why they are not there now? Or why they were no there even in September of last year?


Took over for a few days is still an invasion deep within georgia proper.

Do you care for me to site some of the fatality figures thrown around in the US during 9/11? Some innitial ones were upwards of 20,000. All that proves is that chaos may lead to indefinite figures.


Russia Today still shows vides today of S.Ossetian's claiming that 1,500 were killed! Yes that is propaganda!

Were the lives of civilians in Tskhinvali Saakashvili's to take? Was Iraq America's to take? Boo hoo - the US flushed down hundreds of billions of dollars on the Iraq War. How much of a dent does several HUMVEES make on your budget?


Not my country's budget.... I'm British.

It's not the value of what is stolen that is at dispute, it's still stealing whatever it may be - boots or humvees.

I don't expect the teeny tiny losses to affect anybody at all.... Russia gives us all a laugh when they proclaim them as trophies, and that is enough in return.

I heard 4 mig-31 jets got sold for £6. More embarrassment coming out of Russia.

Sergei Ivanov couldn't even admit Russia had peacekeepers inside S.Ossetia 2 days after the war started for the majority of the interview with the BBC. I really really want to believe the Russian story has credibility, but their own actions in the media lead me to realise that they don't.

All they need is Pentagon's backing. And Biden seemed to be cuddling up with Saakashvili on his recent visit.


Well I hope this is wrong because it's not worth one more person dying over a piece of land. We are where we are regardless of our disagreements on how we got here.

Why does US insists that Iran and Syria must not arm themselves? Meanwhile Iran and Syria started no wars for decades, and Georgia started a war last year. Hypocrisy? Couldn't be.


That's an easy one... sales of arms to terrorist groups such as hezbollah. Iran does enough harm to it's own people and to Israel thru' hamas and hezbollah, they don't need to attack another country directly.

They allowed monitors on the border. Monitors are no allowed inside, because the said monitors refuse to recognize South Ossetia's independence.


How can the EU ever recognise S.Ossetia's independence with Russian occupation there, and without letting EU monitors inside? Cooperation works both ways. And without these monitors, we can just accept Russia's word on the activities inside S.Ossetia.

Then explain why Russia did not invade Georgia during last year's war. it had the capability to do so, and US demonstrated unwillingness to directly interfere.


Erm... Russia did invade half of Georgia proper. And don't forget the Georgian army was in a defensive position around Tbilisi. And President Sarkozy did a good job brokering a cease-fire and for all Russian troops to leave Georgia proper.

Have you watched Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, BBC etc? Amazingly they show no bias what so ever, and are never selective in which news they report and which they leave out.


Yes of course they do to some extent... but apart from Fox news maybe, Russia Today is much more extreme and comparable with Iranian state TV and Iranian Press TV. Those are all entirely propaganda based and full of bull#.

Of course not. They should have more coverage of Michael Jackson's death. In fact they should dedicate a whole week to coverage on Michael Jackson's death - taking the example of their Western media counterparts.


Haha that was funny.... I did not say follow the stories of western media. What I would expect is some domestic news and politics. You know about Russia itself, after all that's what the channel is called - not S.Ossetia TV!!!

You know why they don't??!! It's because it's state run propaganda and it won't ever dare show news stories that the kremlin does not authorise, and it definitely will not criticise the kremlin whatsoever.

British news media are always criticising politicians. I don't see that in Russian media, and I know it's not because they are perfect!

Anyway thanks for very for asking easy questions!!!

Oh and before I go here's some less biased news on S.Ossetia:

www.telegraph.co.uk...

key summary: Russian's arm S.Ossetian militia's.

Drunken militia's and russian's cause trouble and start a war.

Georgia are forced to fire back, and re-take S.Ossetia.

Russia sends in more reinforcements. Russia re-takes S.Ossetia and Russian airstrikes in S.Ossetia and Georgia unnecessarily kill the majority of civilians that are killed.

Militia's cause havoc and destruction in the region near S.Ossetia and Russian so-called peacekeepers arm them and back them up.

Russia invades Abkhazia.

Russia forces the georgian army to retreat back to Tblisi.

Militia's are left by the Russian army to roam and burn down georgian villages.

Russian troops invade half of georgia proper, they trash & steal whatever they want like the violent thugs they are.

Russian troops only retreat after days of negotiating between the EU president and Medvedev.

And russian soldiers as far S.West as Poti who weren't officially called peacekeepers even by their own govt. became peacekeepers from their govt's perspective by wearing an armband with the words "peacekeeper" written on it. So Russia doesn't distinguish peacekeeper or aggressive soldier even themselves, so how are we supposed to. And their actions certainly show they are aggressive.

Up to the present day, Russia has broken the ceasefire and agreements put in place from last year according to the EUMM. Georgia have not according to the EUMM.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by john124]
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