I Do Not Want To Take Responsibility For Myself.

I do not want to take responsibility for myself, therefore, I shall kill a goat, ram, or have a man on the cross die for my sins.

Now Hitchen, Christopher, Touched on this subject and it really struck me and opened a new paradigm.

I've seen that guy from growing pains going on about the banana fits the hand perfectly ergo there is a god, and such, you've seen it and cried laughing, or nodded in agreement, whatever you've seen it.

Well the old man always goes around asking people are the streets "Have you heard the good news!? Jesus died for you?"

Now this is a bit cunning, it's here is a gift and now you must return this favor (anyone who has taken a business or marketing class can see this)

It's why waiters put mints on the tab, it's a gift so that you feel more obliged (whether it be subconciously) to give them a larger tip then anticipated, as I previous waiter, it works quite well.

But it goes much much deeper what this man says, we analyze it further, jesus died for your sins, all your wrong doings, are supposedly erased in gods mind. This would be stunning if true, but it isn't.

As Hitchens put it, If you get in trouble, and i've run into money, I can get you out of trouble, if you kill a man, and have been EXTREMELY good to me, I can take your place and die instead of you in the death penalty, but the one thing that cannot be done, is being able to make it to were you have never done it, I cannot do that.

Jesus cannot die for your sins, you have committed acts unpleasing to god, they are tied into history and eternally bound, any time traveler could see it, you can be helped out, but in the end you have done it, and must live in that guilt forever, you shouldn't be allowed or percieve for yourself, that it's all okay.

It doesn't stop there, i've seen quite an alarming amount of christians, do things knowing they'll just ask to be saved later on, or even get baptised again, i'm sure a "GOD" would see through this, so why not abandon the faith instead of making up excuses?


It seems religion offers a sort of comfort that is actually impossible, but brings comfort.

Serial Killers find comfort knowing that god has "forgiven" them, due to learning Jesus has died for their sins, all he has to do is believe in him and follow him.

Now Jesus wasn't a bad man from what writing tends to lean, although personal opinions may conclude he's a liar or mentally diseased or both.

But the killer has killed, the dead are not undead because of this, and noone else has killed them but him/her, they have done it, it cannot be undone, and they must take responsibility for it, they cannot have a cop out for saying a goat 2,000 years ago died so I'm all good now.

If you can understand this good, if you could even come up with a rebuttal, I would LOVE to hear it, trully.

And if you have only unkind things to say, I will alert a mod and have it taken off, you don't have to respond, I ask it, but only for those with a serious mind.

I agree completely. As a waiter I completely dread sunday morning when everyone gets out of church and treats all of the service staff as if they can act however they want because they're exempt of all punishment. The aditude is jesus died for me and I believe it so I can do and say what I please and its ok. Furthermore I get these people who see that I'm working hard and decide that my day can't be hard enough so they complain about every little thing and shove a church fliar down my throat. People need to learn from their mistakes through personal refection. "Jesus died for me" does not allow room for personal growth. People need to understand that u cannot sin against an almighty god u can only sin against ur fellow man and urself. My actions will not always be right and I know that, but I know that I pay for my actions on this earth.

Originally posted by Mgodgasm
I agree completely. As a waiter I completely dread sunday morning when everyone gets out of church and treats all of the service staff as if they can act however they want because they're exempt of all punishment. The aditude is jesus died for me and I believe it so I can do and say what I please and its ok. Furthermore I get these people who see that I'm working hard and decide that my day can't be hard enough so they complain about every little thing and shove a church fliar down my throat. People need to learn from their mistakes through personal refection. "Jesus died for me" does not allow room for personal growth. People need to understand that u cannot sin against an almighty god u can only sin against ur fellow man and urself. My actions will not always be right and I know that, but I know that I pay for my actions on this earth.

I've had that flyer left instead of a tip. That Jesus Died for your sins flyer, here go to this church for full redemption...

Ummm I make 2.70 an hour, I could use a little more important piece of paper, not something that saves my soul? Which probably doesn't even exist.

If we treated Pastors and Deacons with the kind of attitude we did waiters, we'd be out of religion and it'd be shut down for not being in compliance.

Waiters have it tough, but even i've gotten that 100 dollar tip, pizza hut too!

Originally posted by Republican08
I do not want to take responsibility for myself, therefore, I shall kill a goat, ram, or have a man on the cross die for my sins.....

Jesus cannot die for your sins, you have committed acts unpleasing to god, they are tied into history and eternally bound, any time traveler could see it, you can be helped out, but in the end you have done it, and must live in that guilt forever, you shouldn't be allowed or percieve for yourself, that it's all okay.

interesting thought, the problem is that you are basing it off of things you hear or have seen from "christians". the bible paints a different picture of the ransom.

first thing is that you are linking sin with responsibility and guilt. but you dont answer the question, who are you responsible to? the person you sin against or god?

the obvious answer biblically is both. (romans 12:14). not only are we as humans exposed to the consequences of our sins (god will not miraculously get you out of jail when you repent from killing someone), but then we are also legally accountable to god.

so no, the ransom doesnt at all absolve you of responsibility for you life and how you live it.

the ransom however does serve a purpose. to understand why, we have to understand why mankind sins.

romans 5:12 [12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

the story of adam and eve provide the base of understanding the ransom. adam (being "perfect" or just the way god intended him to be) decided to abuse his free will and sin. adam died for that sin (as death was the punishment). but he also passed that imperfection on to his offspring.

we as humans are incapable of being sinless.

so, if god is going hold us accountable for our sins, this means that legally, everyone dies. does that sound fair that you have to die because of an imperfection you inherited??

obviously the answer is no.

this is why jesus ransom was provided. it is so that sins could be "covered" (rom 4:7). to cover (επεκαλυφθησαν) means to forgive but also to conceal. it allows god to look past our sins.

does this mean that everything is just easy peasy and that you can sin your heart out as long as you put faith in the ransom? no way...

romans 6:[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

repentance involves stopping the sin and not doing it again.

ok so you have the ransom, you repent, now what?

rev 20:[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

most people think this passage happens after we die, but before we enter heaven. thats actually not the case. the chapter is talking about earth. acts refers to a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. its complicated and its a thread of its own, but basically there will be a time when the grace of god isnt enough, you will HAVE to back it with action..

at this point though, we will not be burdened by the handicap of imperfect ademic sin.

what that means is that people who wish to sin, sin but deal with the consequences and eventually die alienated from god. and those that dont want to sin but actually love god will have the opportunity to to show that to him.

basically, the ransom isnt to just blot out sin. the ransom is so that humans have an opportunity to make a decision as to whether to serve god without any sort of handicap that would prevent us from doing so legally

reply to post by Republican08


I read your threads and you give me hope. You're young, you're sharp and always willing to learn. Flag for a great thread amigo.

Miriam great response, I would give you a star but don't know how.




"It seems religion offers a sort of comfort that is actually impossible, but brings comfort. "
(OP)

No, it's completely fullfilling. You can say that with anything. Too much tv, video games, trying to party all the time, getting drunk, getting high, all offer that type of comfort but never fullfilling. True christians, non hypocritical ones have a perfect cmfort because they sin no more, they don't continue in sin which God said was hypocritical. They are happy all the time inside. When bored, when doing fun things, they always have God and that's all they need from the saints own words. And so the comfort is complete and full from personal experience.





Serial Killers find comfort knowing that god has "forgiven" them, due to learning Jesus has died for their sins, all he has to do is believe in him and follow him.
(OP)



Cerial killers might convert, but trust me, number one they have to be truly sorry as God reads hearts, and number two they have to pay heavy punishment for their crimes. They will not get off without any \payment for their sins.


Now Jesus wasn't a bad man from what writing tends to lean, although personal opinions may conclude he's a liar or mentally diseased or both.
(OP)

that's insane, personal opinion. Btw the same bible said he never sinned or lied.


But the killer has killed, the dead are not undead because of this, and noone else has killed them but him/her, they have done it, it cannot be undone, and they must take responsibility for it, they cannot have a cop out for saying a goat 2,000 years ago died so I'm all good now.
(OP)


No like I said, it aint all good. They will pay either on Earth or after death whcih God himself said in scripture. You really need to study more. I don't know if this is a kid or a grown man?

If you can understand this good, if you could even come up with a rebuttal, I would LOVE to hear it, trully.
(OP)


Good sincerity, if you do believe one day, God could mold you into a great saint.


It doesn't stop there, i've seen quite an alarming amount of christians, do things knowing they'll just ask to be saved later on, or even get baptised again, i'm sure a "GOD" would see through this, so why not abandon the faith instead of making up excuses?
(OP)


there you go, God would see through it. And yet your OP attacks Christ instead of the hypocrite. You just answered your own question.

Hypocrites don't abondond because they run on pride and can't see their own faults. It's a pride God specifically hates which is why he said in John

" Not all that say Lord Lord to me shall enter the kingdom be he who does the will of my father "

" I will say to them I never knew you "




Now what Christ died for was our sins. Pain cancels oput sin and is tied to grace. Suffering produces graces, I think you might be too young to understand this, but God took all our pains and sins on his shoudlers once.

Not so that we can keep sinning, which it loses it's affect afterwards.

this ties into the new sacrafice, holy communion in which he enters into us and makes us one with him.

It has produced many great saints and was predicted all throughout the OT.

And so that sacrafice is tied into the new sacrafice of the mass and all the saints sufferings. it's a mystery you will have to wait till death to understand.


and so saying.


" which probably isn't even true "

" jesus cannot die for your sins "

If number one is correct, how can number two be so set in stone?

Ther point is that you don't knwo if it's true or not. So don't say it's false because of lack of understanding.



Guilt doesn't exist nomore because God removes it and replaces it with happiness. As long as you do it nomore and pay and are sorry.

Those guilty souls carry around a hidden self love in which they cannot except forgiveness and carry the drama around with them because of their hidden prides.



Anyhow OP god bless you, and try and put up with the people at the bus stop with the flyers, trust me they do it out of love, and it never bothered me even when I was not christian.

Because I know they care, even if I don't believe,

peace.



[edit on 10-8-2009 by JesusisTruth]

See the problem is you are telling OP he is taking his words off of another source be it MSM, books, other folks' quotes or whatever but are you not doing the same? You have the bible, a book written by man and never proven so who is to say he isn't right?

I wish I could give both Miriam AND OP a star for how originally they think. When did it become devilish to challenge what we think we know? My goddess tells me things but I sure do check into them to make sure I am not being misled or fooled.

well done OP and Miriam

OP...gave me soe things to ponder. I will probably in the end disagree as I am a Pagan myself but I sure do see your points. A flyer instead of a tip may be divine to the giver but it can be a house payment they just lost to the receiver

-Kyo

Where di I say that?

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Did I say you did it?

-Kyo

good point.

My mistske.