I Would Side With the Serpent, page 5

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reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:10 AM by JayinAR

reply to post by badmedia

Well, if you want me to answer specifically to the Chapters I'll do so tomorrow. It is really late and I need to be up somewhat early.

But for the time being I would say that wisdom and understanding are pretty much the same thing. Only that wisdom is a cumulative understanding spanning years of experience.

I think the point is to yield wisdom to NEW understanding and I agree.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:12 AM by heyo

reply to post by JayinAR

To spell it out for you, we aren't kids that you take the lighter away cause we're gonna smoke, we're kids who you take the lighter away from cause we haven't learned fire. the lighter is the tree of knowledge.
...so there ya go.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:19 AM by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by heyo

... the lighter is the tree of knowledge.

Is this an actual photo of the tree of knowledge?

[edit on 10-8-2009 by In nothing we trust]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:24 AM by Silverse

my take on this is simple, give me your thoughts.

we've been engineered to work this planet, to sustain its economy, they want to mine this planet for it resources.

creation does exist and by that i mean, homo sapiens we created in a test tube many hundred of thousands years ago.

the bible is a story made to stop us knowing that there is probably an old patriarch/matriarch (Serpent) as this worlds overlord(s).

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:25 AM by ButterCookie

reply to post by JayinAR

The only reason you do not like Sitichins' theory is because you can't fathom alien ancestry...and that's understandable..especially after hundreds of movies that show us the "Hollywood" version of what an 'alien' must look like...

But we were made in their image..

Alien does not mean 'Predator' as in the movies...it simply means 'being that does not have Earth origin...

God came DOWN to earth....the winged angels came DOWN to earth....if they are descending through the clouds, then they are merely landing from another planet...Is that not basic logic?

The Sumerians just did not refer to Annunaki with the term alien..that term was invented thousands of years later, just as chariots of fire became alien spacecraft and miracles turned into modern medicine, surgery , and advanced technology.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by ButterCookie]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:25 AM by JayinAR

reply to post by In nothing we trust

I'm not sure, but it is a damned good photo!

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:27 AM by JayinAR

reply to post by ButterCookie

When did I say I can't fathom alien ancestry?

What I actually said is that I can't stand Sitchin because his ideas on the physics of orbital bodies literally blows.

And since he relies on this faulty Science as a premise for the creation of the Earth itself, I can't buy his crap.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:27 AM by heyo

reply to post by In nothing we trust

Actually i know many ladies who would agree with you.
I bow to this new superior logic.
...seriously, i'm still laughing.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 01:40 AM by Razimus

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Razimus

You are also denying God.
You are literally saying that there is a force out there that not even God can control.

And honestly, the "by not buying into their idea you are perhaps buying into their idea through a third party indirect way" is a bit weird to me.

No, what I'm saying is that they have peddled a lie.

Your words are ignorance not stupidity so I will ignore it as an attack, I do not deny God, yes there are forces the supreme being cannot control do you know why? Because these forces he lives and breathes with, he is in perfect ballance with these forces, universal truths, gravity, do you think God one day will choose for gravity to ceace? He knows gravity because he knows all, he doesn't control everything because some things are meant to exist naturally, unchanged, the forces of good and evil are a natural element of the universe, you do not understand God's nature in my opinion.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 05:41 AM by badmedia

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by badmedia

Well, if you want me to answer specifically to the Chapters I'll do so tomorrow. It is really late and I need to be up somewhat early.

But for the time being I would say that wisdom and understanding are pretty much the same thing. Only that wisdom is a cumulative understanding spanning years of experience.

I think the point is to yield wisdom to NEW understanding and I agree.

The chapters are basically telling people to go in the way of understanding, knowledge and wisdom, and that such things are more valuable than any worldly possession.

So, they go directly against the view that god wants people to be ignorant and such.

The deception of the serpent is what is agreed to when taken upon knowledge that is not spoken.

Wisdom and understanding are 2 different things, but I get what you are saying as understanding is what leads to wisdom. Wisdom is just being able to make the correct choices and decisions based on the understandings and experiences gained. So yeah, 1 comes with the other - which is also expressed in the 2 proverbs chapters I mention.

[edit on 8/10/2009 by badmedia]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 06:43 AM by IDK88

Human obsession with that Tree is bizarre and stranger still is men's inability see that every complaint you have about the world and yourself can probably be attributed to that Tree.

It not really about Freedom as opposed to slavery though. I figured that its about not wanting any limits whatsoever and no wanting there to be consequences for the things you do. The Serpent is a dope and the world needs to see this.

God permits All things except one. Even the Ten Commandments are not additional rules but are just an elaboration on his original prohibition against the tree. When you say I would side with the Serpent you are admitting to supporting Murder, Theft, Lying, Adultery, etc.. So for all your exceptional cognitive abilities as a Child when you saw all the logic holes within the Bible you cannot see what it is really that you are claiming to believe in...and I assume you are an adult. You've regressed and can't possibly claim to be operating with open eyes...unless of course you are into all of these things, which would make you brutally honest.

Then you went on the criticize the God character for punishing Adam, Eve and the Serpent. Which illustrates this unwillingness to accept responsibility for one's behavior. But it seems from the story that the damage was done before God arrived on the scene after the apple debacle. It wasn't so much that he punished them, as it was that he didn't use magic powers to fix it all up and make it like it was before and instead made them all suffer the consequences for their actions.

A person who wants to Kill but not be Killed. To steal but not be stolen from. To lie and not be lied to. This is the Serpent to a T. An awful person to be or be allied with I think.

Even now, after all these many thousands of years, the Serpent is in the middle of an attempt to forgo the severe punishment which is reserved for Her by starting this War on Terror. She created this false world and now its falling apart but she doesn't want to lose her clothes, Die and be shown in fact to have been THE liar at the Tree. If you eat the fruit from that Tree...You will Die. God was just telling you the Truth.

She wants to Terrorize, but doesn't want to live in Terror.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by IDK88]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 08:48 AM by Antaun

I side with the serpent too and think he told more of the truth than God did. Adam and Eve didn't die when they ate the fruit and they DID know good and evil. So much so that they even knew that they were naked.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 09:07 AM by badmedia

Originally posted by Antaun
I side with the serpent too and think he told more of the truth than God did. Adam and Eve didn't die when they ate the fruit and they DID know good and evil. So much so that they even knew that they were naked.

Perhaps you should have read on down further in the same chapter, as God repeats those things?

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 09:33 AM by Ophiuchus 13

I wish you the best of luck with your journey friend.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 09:40 AM by miriam0566

Originally posted by JayinAR
You don't have free will.
No matter which way you cut it God created you with advanced knowledge of everything you would ever do and when he created you, and everyone else, he knew precisely how everything would end.

Meaning, nothing you do can thwart God's plan.

except your wrong.

if humans dont have free will, how can a god who is just and loving condemn a person for sin if it wasnt their fault to begin with? or even reward someone with faithfulness if it wasnt their doing.

sorry but it makes no sense.

im sure god is powerful enough that he doesnt need to rely on predestination to fulfill his will.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 09:55 AM by miriam0566

Originally posted by tungus
Does a murderer's free will to kill has more priority over the victims free will to live? Are you saying that the people that boarded the planes on 9/11 chose to get on those planes?

why would ignorance of the consequences change the fact that the decision is still yours?

foreknowledge and ignorance dont do anything to freewill.

freewill - 1 : proceeding from the will or from one's own choice or consent 2 : having power of free choice

whether a person realizes the plane is going down doesnt at all change the fact that they have the ability to decided whether to get on or not, so i fail to see what your on about

And saying that god's will overrides his "free" moral agent's "free" will because god knows best, is like saying that the slave is free as long as he doesn't try to escape. Total nonsense.

god's will doesnt override anything. if you follow god, its because you choose to.

as for your slave analogy, its ineresting you mention that.

if someone is employed and they quit their job, can they still expect the paycheck?

if someone needs medication and they stop taking the pills, can they expect to remain healthy?

if someone cheats on their spouse, can they rightfully expect love and faithfulness in return?

if man decides he doesnt need god, does god still have the obligation to sustain that man alive?

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 10:32 AM by dominicus

Hey OP,
You never responded to me reply on page 2.

Everything else will basically lead you into never ending philosophical circles within logic and reason. Experience God for yourself beyond logic and reason and then you won't need to ask these questions. Everything will fall into place and seen for what it is.

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 02:00 PM by tungus

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by tungus
Does a murderer's free will to kill has more priority over the victims free will to live? Are you saying that the people that boarded the planes on 9/11 chose to get on those planes?

why would ignorance of the consequences change the fact that the decision is still yours?

foreknowledge and ignorance dont do anything to freewill.

freewill - 1 : proceeding from the will or from one's own choice or consent 2 : having power of free choice

whether a person realizes the plane is going down doesnt at all change the fact that they have the ability to decided whether to get on or not, so i fail to see what your on about

I don't know how many people you know that would go on a plane which they know is going down willingly. Those kind of people were fully aware of the consequences of their decision. In fact they had foreknowledge, just like that god you are talking about.
I am talking about the ones that got on the plane expecting to get to their destination in one piece. They didn't have the power of free choice. They didn't have the foreknowledge of the other group. I doubt that any of them would have gotten on that particular plane. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

god's will doesnt override anything. if you follow god, its because you choose to.

if man decides he doesnt need god, does god still have the obligation to sustain that man alive?

Wow. So you follow god because you choose to but if you were to choose
different, he could starve you to death? Some free choice there!

And some loving god, too, I might add. Would you starve your kids if they didn't love you back? I hope not. But hey, it's okay for god to do it.

What about your pets? Would you starve a kitten or a puppy if they didn't love you back? I know people that feed stray cats that hiss at them as they are bringing their food. Those people have higher morals than that god you speak of.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by tungus]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 05:46 PM by JayinAR

Wow, the thread is still going.
Thanks for all of the posts, guys. It has been a pretty good discussion thusfar. Some really good thinkers. God would be proud.

I'll get to responding to some of the posts soon.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by JayinAR]

reply posted on 10-8-2009 @ 07:55 PM by JayinAR

reply to post by heyo

we aren't kids that you take the lighter away cause we're gonna smoke, we're kids who you take the lighter away from cause we haven't learned fire.

So what you are now saying is that has condemned us from this knowledge until we have made ourselves worthy of it.

But only after he has played his little experiment with us.

Either way it was never a choice we had. It was his intention all along. Afterall, why would he create the choice if but for some sort of game?

Ever heard of the band Alien Ant Farm. Replace 'alien' with 'God'...

So there ya' go. The end result is precisely the same... except for one thing. God still created all of this knowing this would happen, because unlike a simple alien, he is supreme in knowledge and power.

Therefore, you have no free will.

Therefore, I still side with the guy who GAVE (albeit through deception) us that free will to choose rather than live as a drone. (even if that dronish life was perfect.) If we didn't have that choice there would be no adventure in life. No question. No road to travel.

Alas, I would be but a robot.

One could potentially argue that since one aligns with the decision to create a path in the first place they are still aligning with God's plan. So be it, in that case, there is no harm aligning with the choice to decide.

The Serpent is but a tool and I, for one, applaud his decision. For without it, none of this would be possible.