It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by JayinAR
I don't buy the Church's spin on the Biblical story.
I have a question to ask of any believer. If God is all powerful why would he knowingly create a being that was going to eventually turn against him, deceive his creation into following him in his treason and eventually punish the people for buying into what was, for all intents and purposes, a 'Godly Mistake'?
That is why I turned away from the Church many years ago. As a *child* I was able to see through this gaping hole of logic, but the reason I would side with the Serpent is because he actually argued for freedom.
God forbode man of eating from the tree of knowledge. I'm curious if the believers out there have considered that. Where would man be without knowledge?
God said that to eat from that tree man would become just like He. Have believers considered that?
He made us in his image apparently, but he couldn't handle having a creation that shared intellect. He wanted slaves.
Give me knowledge and freedom!
Originally posted by miriam0566
Originally posted by JayinAR
If God is all powerful why would he knowingly create a being that was going to eventually turn against him, deceive his creation into following him in his treason and eventually punish the people for buying into what was, for all intents and purposes, a 'Godly Mistake'?
so god was mistaken to make free moral agents who possess free will?
You do buy the Church's spin if you "side" with the "serpent."
You can't get people to "unplug" from anything. They will remain plugged in as long as they so choose, because it is their decision.
So, why did they have to do something wrong in order to progress? "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." The Fall of Adam was one of the main points of our history, just as the Ressurection of Christ was the center point of all events, the Greatest act ever committed. It wouln't have been needed if Adam and Eve had never eaten the fruit. We all wouldn't have exsisted and never lived the lives we have if it wasn't for them breaking a law.
Originally posted by JayinAR
God forbode man of eating from the tree of knowledge. I'm curious if the believers out there have considered that. Where would man be without knowledge? God said that to eat from that tree man would become just like He. Have believers considered that?
2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2 Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. 4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God. 5 Don’t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you? 6 And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. 7 For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. 8 Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming. 9 This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. 10 He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. 11 So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. 12 Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.
John 8
44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Colossians 1
15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,
16 for through him God created everything
in the heavenly realms and on earth.
He made the things we can see
and the things we can’t see—
such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world.
Everything was created through him and for him.
17 He existed before anything else,
and he holds all creation together.
18 Christ is also the head of the church,
which is his body.
He is the beginning,
supreme over all who rise from the dead.
So he is first in everything.
19 For God in all his fullness
was pleased to live in Christ,
20 and through him God reconciled
everything to himself.
He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth
by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
Romans 8:16-17
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God; and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Hebrews 2
Jesus, the Man
5 And furthermore, it is not angels who will control the future world we are talking about. 6 For in one place the Scriptures say,
“What are mere mortals that you should think about them,
or a son of man that you should care for him?
7 Yet you made them only a little lower than the angels
and crowned them with glory and honor.
8 You gave them authority over all things.”
Now when it says “all things,” it means nothing is left out. But we have not yet seen all things put under their authority. 9 What we do see is Jesus, who was given a position “a little lower than the angels”; and because he suffered death for us, he is now “crowned with glory and honor.” Yes, by God’s grace, Jesus tasted death for everyone. 10 God, for whom and through whom everything was made, chose to bring many children into glory. And it was only right that he should make Jesus, through his suffering, a perfect leader, fit to bring them into their salvation.
11 So now Jesus and the ones he makes holy have the same Father. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them his brothers and sisters. 12 For he said to God,
“I will proclaim your name to my brothers and sisters.
I will praise you among your assembled people.”
13 He also said,
“I will put my trust in him,”
that is, “I and the children God has given me.”
14 Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death. 15 Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.
16 We also know that the Son did not come to help angels; he came to help the descendants of Abraham. 17 Therefore, it was necessary for him to be made in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people. 18 Since he himself has gone through suffering and testing, he is able to help us when we are being tested.
Originally posted by Tayesin
I'll base my response on what I know of the Sumerian Tablets relating to the genesis of mankind, which is the original form albeit heavily edited into what we now call Genesis in the Old Testament.
Originally posted by JayinAR
I don't buy the Church's spin on the Biblical story.
I have a question to ask of any believer. If God is all powerful why would he knowingly create a being that was going to eventually turn against him, deceive his creation into following him in his treason and eventually punish the people for buying into what was, for all intents and purposes, a 'Godly Mistake'?
That is why I turned away from the Church many years ago. As a *child* I was able to see through this gaping hole of logic, but the reason I would side with the Serpent is because he actually argued for freedom.
God forbode man of eating from the tree of knowledge. I'm curious if the believers out there have considered that. Where would man be without knowledge?
God said that to eat from that tree man would become just like He. Have believers considered that?
He made us in his image apparently, but he couldn't handle having a creation that shared intellect. He wanted slaves.
Give me knowledge and freedom!