It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by miriam0566
why do you keep going on about peer pressure?
umm no. its doesnt mean "anybody" who is an adversary.
Those quotes don't say the name "satan" or "serpent"
they dont have to.
satan lied in the garden of eden. lying is a sin. logically then satan is not a tool of god.
its because people that go on about this theory of satan being good are doing exactly that. they call evil good
Originally posted by miriam0566
reply to post by dzonatas
why dont you stick you fingers in your ears and go "la la la, im not listening, you cant make me"
it would make more sense than the argument you are presenting now.
reply to post by dzonatas
By logic? You mean you can't find it said directly within the bible by exact quote?
k... let's analyze by logic...
...
Originally posted by miriam0566
- adam and eve died (whatdoyouknow, god didnt lie)
Are you sure they didn't ascend? Where is the bible quote and not your 'peer pressure' interpretation?
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Genesis 5:3-5
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Genesis 5:21-24
Originally posted by dzonatas
Originally posted by miriam0566
- satan (which literally means "adversary") is a liar. lying is evil.
So the bible lies to tell everybody that there is a being called "Satan" when really it means just anybody who is your adversary... that is quite a lie!
Originally posted by dzonatas
Originally posted by miriam0566
why do you keep going on about peer pressure?
Because you have used peer pressure in to tell me and other in what parts of the bible should be taken literally and what parts of the bible are not. You have used your own words. No mater how many times you interject with the bible, those interjection are your words and your interpretations.
umm no. its doesnt mean "anybody" who is an adversary.
It doesn't? Then how do you know exactly when it literally means and when it doesn't? Where do you get that knowledge that isn't written in the bible?
Originally posted by CJaKfOrEsT
I agree that Miriam's "put your finger in your ears comment" was a little immature (bearing in mind that I made a similar comment, earlier on), but frustration can bring out funny things in people.
Originally posted by CJaKfOrEsT
I agree that Miriam's "put your finger in your ears comment" was a little immature (bearing in mind that I made a similar comment, earlier on), but frustration can bring out funny things in people.
Your move...
Originally posted by CJaKfOrEsT
Your reference, as requested...
[...]
...and just in case you think that "died" in this passage could mean "ascend"...
[...]
If the Scripture intended for us to read "he died" as "he ascended",
Originally posted by miriam0566
its like i point out how her view is incorrect... (in terms of what the bible is saying)
Originally posted by miriam0566
then you are not only calling god a liar
reply to post by dzonatas
Either you take the bible literally in whole or you don't at all. Anything in between will make others see you as random and inconsistent. That randomness and inconsistency is your frustrations.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Revelation 12:9-10
Originally posted by CJaKfOrEsT
[...]
Why do I make such an assumption? Same name, and the description fits.
[...]
Now we can argue about the identity of the "kingdom" but it is blatantly obvious that this passage identifies the "Serpent" as being the "Deivl/Satan".
Originally posted by dzonatas
Practice what you preach. I expect your answer.
reply to post by dzonatas
Somehow you think I have to go to you in order to understand, or better yet, somehow you think I'm incapable of being able to understand and obtain some knowledge that you have. If you know exactly who the serpent is.... and you keep the 'thou shalt not bare false witness'.... hmmm.... are you a god?
You seem to have a litle problem grasping the concept of "context".
[...]
Okay I'll play your little game.
[...]
Considering that you have repeatedly taken my comments out of context, and tried to make then say something that I have not, ...
[...]
Right now it feels like you are setting up straw men and then accusing me of their crimes.
[...]
It is a form of insanity to always read something else into what people say.
In response to your first question, my answer is, "No".
In response to your second, based on what I have read of your posts, it would appear so.
Originally posted by dzonatas
How could one possible be incorrect if someone is not consistent with the bible? They can't. Anybody could point out a word in the bible and says its means something else, and then come back and say 'you are incorrect... it means.. blah blah'. Everybody has their own interpretation.
Of the scriptures both of you shown when taken literally, there is no direct evidence that:
* the serpent is satan
* the serpent is an adversary
* that when adam died that it was only his body that died
* that adam was an android and never actually alive
* and so on
There are many possibilities.
And in the scriptures it states how man is god once was.
Originally posted by miriam0566
read the scriptures. they a simply and straightforward.
how many "possible" meanings can a lie from a serpent have?
And in the scriptures it states how man is god once was.
what?
i have no idea what passage you are refering to.
Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
dzonatas
Do you really believe what you post or are you just trying to debate for the sake of debate?
I think you need to pick one either way, not jump back and forth between the two.
Too many people on ATS are jumping back and forth on these two.
Regardless the endgame is the same anyway you slice it, those that oppose God and his standards will eventually not exist on this planet, they won't exist anywhere. They will be dead, really dead, as in non-existent.
reply to post by dzonatas
My first question: "Is it an assumption or is it blatantly obvious, which is it?"
Originally posted by CJaKfOrEsTT
"Assumption" allowing you the benefit of the doubt, having not presented the evidence. "Blatantly obviously" the conclusions draw from Scripture, as presented.
Somehow you think I have to go to you in order to understand (first question), or better yet, somehow you think I'm incapable of being able to understand and obtain some knowledge that you have (second question).
To me, 'blatantly obvious' would be that facts are right there and no conclusion is needed. "No brainer" -- anotherwords. For example, someone with absolutely no knowledge about the scriptures could pick up a bible, read a single paragraph, and know exactly what it means without any "riddled" references to other parts of the bible.
Let's apply scrutiny to the words of the bible if you are to use such descriptions so literally. In the verse you find the phrase "which deceiveth the whole world." Notice it says "which" and not "whom." It doesn't not syntactically relate a proper name to a pronoun-conjunction.
The point of the passage was to describe an empire (ed - the dragon) that would arise out of the Roman empire, and serve the Serpent, aka the Devil, aka Satan's purpose of declaring war against God's people. Now we can argue about the identity of the "kingdom" but it is blatantly obvious that this passage identifies the "Serpent" as being the "Deivl/Satan".
Originally posted by dzonatas
In 2-Timothy-3:16, it is written in infinitives, it technically doesn't make any sense. It technically is not written straightforward. You can only guess what it means -- your interpretation. One possibility, is to say there is a means of 'self-correction'. Some can take it as a mean to correct others, while others could take it as a means to correct themselves. Either way, it suggests that it isn't right for you to correct someones interpretation, yet do make sure the scripture is correct.
how many "possible" meanings can a lie from a serpent have?
You say 'lie' to someone who is blind, do you think he might have heard 'lye'? Simple example, yet there is more better examples of such 'possibilities' you take for granted.
I thought you just said the scripture is simple and straightforward.
In 1-Timothy-3:16, the body is just an 'appearance' and when the body 'dies' then this scripture reveals that there is more to this than just the body, at least for gods, which doesn't 'die',
Seems like that scripture is enough to suggest that when 'adam' 'died' that it was only his body that went 'dust to dust' and his 'spirit to spirit'. Of course, it doesn't mention either dust or spirit in genesis. It does leave the possibility the adam was never alive, yet you probably would see that as a deception.
Other bibles could have been used to say such, yet I didn't want to digress further.
Doesn't it appear that maybe the bible is the fruit?