I Would Side With the Serpent

I don't buy the Church's spin on the Biblical story.

I have a question to ask of any believer. If God is all powerful why would he knowingly create a being that was going to eventually turn against him, deceive his creation into following him in his treason and eventually punish the people for buying into what was, for all intents and purposes, a 'Godly Mistake'?

That is why I turned away from the Church many years ago. As a *child* I was able to see through this gaping hole of logic, but the reason I would side with the Serpent is because he actually argued for freedom.

God forbode man of eating from the tree of knowledge. I'm curious if the believers out there have considered that. Where would man be without knowledge?

God said that to eat from that tree man would become just like He. Have believers considered that?

He made us in his image apparently, but he couldn't handle having a creation that shared intellect. He wanted slaves.

Give me knowledge and freedom!

reply to post by JayinAR


Couldn't resist haha.

www.freedomdomain.com...

reply to post by DJones


Yeah, I've read them. I think they are bogus, but who am I to judge the truthfulness of another?
It is just a story.

But that is a good addition to the topic. Thanks for adding it.

It is another option. Something to consider. As the terrapapers illustrate, our creators wanted a slave race. (if you buy it, that is)


Problem is, when I look at the story, I kinda' agree.


[edit on 8-8-2009 by JayinAR]

reply to post by JayinAR


well my standpoint on it is that just because i can't figure out why God created humanity, doesn't somehow mean he didn't exist. I don't really get that.
Also, the naming of animals constitutes knowledge, therefore i find the "tree of knowledge" to signify a higher knowledge
i.e. we were allowed to eat from the shrub of knowledge, because that was the limit of knowledge alloted to us.
Then there's the free will thing. For me it isn't wreckless to suppose that since scientists now believe time travel possible that it would also be possible for God. Therefor, I believe he has access to all potential futures that exist after every decision yet doesn't force us down one or the other.
Just my two cents.

reply to post by JayinAR


I used to be in your boat. Then I realized the bible is misinterpreted. Religions focus on the physical descriptions in the bible and tell you if you believe and follow our protocol then you will be rewarded with material things in heaven.

Read the bible and look for the spiritual side of what it teaches. It takes on a whole new meaning. The whole prophecy of end times in the bible is true in my mind with the exception that it describes things that will occur that will help us reunite with spirit.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


That's the thing, I DO look at the spiritual aspects of the Bible.
It is one of the greatest books on the planet.

As I said in my first line, I don't buy the Church's interpretation.

I think it is this interpretation that is warping the minds of many, many genuinely thoughtful people.

reply to post by heyo


I didn't say that I don't think God exists.

And as for the knowledge, a limit on knowledge is still slavery, no matter how you cut it.

When you withhold, you subject.

PS - I would think that if time travel is possible and God exists then he most certainly has mastered it.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by JayinAR]

Interesting biblical question. I don't know anybody has the answer though. I guess it comes down to "faith". As to the Terra Papers, I don't find myself considering them with any less (or more) validity than any other religious text. Anyway, imh(f)o.

Peace.

reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator


To me it is just a question of logic.

The Church generally teaches that to go against God is to spend an eternity in hell.
But that is something he set up from the get-go by creating someone with enough gumption to challenge even himself knowing that those he says he loves will follow that abomination.

It isn't just.

Remember the concept of original sin? It refers to the fact that you carry the burden of your parents' shortcomings. And this is true. My upbringing, or lack thereof, molds my behavior, including my sin.
Therefore, there is no just reason to send me to hell...

And all of this is aside from the notion of an eye for an eye.

I am currently 28 years old. If I die tomorrow, legally God can only punish me for 28 years... Right?

If God is all powerful why would he knowingly create a being that was going to eventually turn against him

Because it is an inevitability. When you have a planet of 7 billion people, you are going to have 1 tiger woods, 1 michael jordan, 1 michaelangelo, there will always be one master of any category you want to look into; chess, cooking, murders, rapes, auto design, wars, etc.

You yourself probably want to have kids or will want to one day. You have no idea how they will turn out and yet they have equally the same potential to be killers as they do to be civilized members of society.

and eventually punish the people for buying into what was, for all intents and purposes, a 'Godly Mistake'

Does God punish? Or do we punish ourselves? You might want to review your angles on these topics. Remember, a majority view isn't always right.

but the reason I would side with the Serpent is because he actually argued for freedom.

He argued for freedom as a trick. That would be like me telling you that if you do heroin, your eyes will be opened and you will know the truth. Technically I wouldn't be lying .......I would just be rephrasing the fact that your eyes would be open to how addicted your butt now is and that you are now a slave to what I showed you.

God forbode man of eating from the tree of knowledge. I'm curious if the believers out there have considered that. Where would man be without knowledge?

You might want to review the Eastern Orthodoxy interpretation of Genesis. What's interesting is that their interpretation is actually similar to that of most religions.

Paraphrased: In the beginning we were with God, knew God, had Oneness with God, and there was no ego or separation anywhere. Then the serpent tricked us into eating of this fruit which meant putting on an ego, or an aspect that presents to us separation from each other and from God.

Now we are working on getting back to the original garden or shall I say original state of non-ego.

Genesis is allegorical.

He made us in his image apparently, but he couldn't handle having a creation that shared intellect. He wanted slaves.

Your missing the point. We all come from God, we all pre-existed before this. We are all individual drops from the ocean that is God. It's impossible for God to have slaves. Thats putting a human characteristic, a want of slaves, on God who is beyond the human notion of wants/ego/duality.

Move beyond these views. Research Christian Mysticism, Gospel of Thomas, Advaita, Vasistha, Tao, Eastern Orthodoxy, nonduality ......then after tons of research you come back to the Bible and see everything in a whole new light.

Dont listen to what Westernized Xtianity tells you. Its all covered up with this theology based on logic and reason. God is beyond logic and reason, beyond good and evil, beyond all these chracteristics your trying to put on her/him/it/all of it.


[edit on 8-8-2009 by dominicus]

I would side with the sons of the serpent.

The serpent in my mind represents our creators. Further evolved beings with higher technology who created us as slaves and are responsible for all division and devastation amongst us.

reply to post by dominicus

Because it is an inevitability. When you have a planet of 7 billion people, you are going to have 1 tiger woods, 1 michael jordan, 1 michaelangelo, there will always be one master of any category you want to look into; chess, cooking, murders, rapes, auto design, wars, etc.

With God's creation there are no inevitabilities he did not create.

All of those murders and rapists are put there because he chose to put them there.

Does God punish? Or do we punish ourselves? You might want to review your angles on these topics. Remember, a majority view isn't always right.

Logically speaking, God does punish for these things. He set up the conditions knowing what would happen... even how it would end. Yes, he set up those that would fail knowingly. Therefore, he is punishing them... unjustly.

He argued for freedom as a trick. That would be like me telling you that if you do heroin, your eyes will be opened and you will know the truth. Technically I wouldn't be lying .......I would just be rephrasing the fact that your eyes would be open to how addicted your butt now is and that you are now a slave to what I showed you.

You are comparing heroin to knowledge and calling the person who chooses knowledge is somehow a slave because they chose to be, as God called it, like he?
God is a heroin addict? I don't understand.

God didn't want man to have knowledge. The Serpent said what is wrong with it? I agree with the Serpent, for without knowledge man is simply a mindless tool.

Then you went to talk about the latest and greatest in biblical interpretation. Sorry, but even then I disagree. Ego is an extension of knowledge, only applied to a specific state.
Ego is the understanding of the self, and the seeking of self-betterment, and the perseverance thereof.

Thanks for your thoughts.

reply to post by borrowedname


But aren't the sons of the Serpent man?

I am speaking of the Church's endtime scenario. God and Serpent. Battle.

I'll fight with the Serpent.

reply to post by JayinAR

I side with no one but myself.

Everything is upside down and backwards. No one knows who to side with because it is all so convulted. The universal creator is not so small that we are judged for such petty things.


[edit on 8-8-2009 by liveandlearn]

reply to post by liveandlearn


So if there was a battle waging on your neighborhood's block you would just go out and indiscriminately kill people on both sides?

I mean, according to the Biblical story that the Church preaches you are going to have no choice but to choose.

I understand that it is all convoluted, and this is the point.

What the Church teaches is wrong. Logically and completely wrong.

Yet there are countless people who still put their 10% in that offering plate in the hopes that their pastor can lead them to the Promised Land.

They are missing the forest for the trees.

When you realize that Satan (not the serpent) is the Biblical Rome you will see that you pay 10% to your Church according to God's law and currently in America, at least, another 40% to Satan.

This is why Jesus makes the offhanded remark towards Ceasar to pay Ceasar what is his for your 10% is greater than his whatever percent, for you are doing it in the favor of God.

But I argue that it is the Serpent who is trying to make man wiser to all of it and God doesn't like it. "For now they will be like us."

I'll side with wisdom.

reply to post by JayinAR

The sons of the serpent were also a slave race created by the serpent.

They removed themselves from eden and later helped us to do the same before being exterminated by the serpent.

Feel free to disagree, though, because I myself do not know; I read of it somewhere.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by borrowedname]

Originally posted by JayinAR
I am speaking of the Church's endtime scenario. God and Serpent. Battle.
I'll fight with the Serpent.

Personally, I don't think there will ever be any final battle. I suspect mankind will always be in on-going struggle between what constructive things we are capable of doing, versus what destructive things we are capable of doing. We don't need a serpent to tell us all to kill one another, we do that pretty well on our own.

reply to post by JayinAR


I am coming from the standpoint that since before recorded history everything has been manipulated and controlled.

You said

So if there was a battle waging on your neighborhood's block you would just go out and indiscriminately kill people on both sides?

I mean, according to the Biblical story that the Church preaches you are going to have no choice but to choose.

For the life of me I do not know how you could have possibly have read such a thing into my post.

Not knowing who or what to follow has nothing to do with having a conscious and living by that conscious.

reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator


I don't think the Serpent WOULD have told us to kill one another.

I honestly don't think there will be any final battle either. I am commenting on the Church's story.
They say there will be. I disagree.

I disagree with nearly everything they say about the Bible. How about you?

reply to post by liveandlearn


This is where I am coming from also.

As I said in the first line of my initial post, I think the Church has spun the original story.
And I don't agree with them. My questions are more geared towards people who are of the Christian faith and actually DO buy into the Church's fraudulent claims.