It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Medjugorje - a shrine to the Virgin Mary or a sham

page: 1
1

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 05:21 PM
link   
Medjugorje - a shrine to the Virgin Mary or a sham
Will the real Prince of Darkness please stand up? Are you Pope Benedict XVI or the spitting image of the Mother of God?

Benedict says that the Blessed Virgin Mary (BVM) allegedly making daily appearances in the village of Medjugorje in Herzegovina is a fraud designed by the Devil to lure Catholics from the path of righteousness. Vatican officials have admitted that the apparition is virtually indistinguishable from, so to speak, the real thing — as one would expect from such a cunning falsifier of truth as Beelzebub.

Indeed, speaking last year, senior Vatican cleric and former top exorcist Bishop Andrea Gemma pointed out that it is the very plausibility of the Medjugorje BVM which most strongly suggests she is a fake. “The whole sham is the work of the Devil.”

On the other hand, defiant devotees of the Medjugorje BVM are adamant that it’s those who deny her authenticity who must be accounted diabolical.

Said Philip Wallace of the National Medjugorje Council of Ireland last week: “We accept that Medjugorje is constantly under attack and we view that as a sign of the authenticity of the visions and of the powerful graces which are flowing. If Satan wasn’t attacking this great work, it would be surprising.”

He was commenting on news that Benedict had finally lost the bap and ended any official ambiguity about the status of Medjugorje by defrocking Fr. Tomislav Vlasic, original “spiritual father” of the six children, now adults, visited by the Medjugorje BVM at 6.40pm local time every evening for the past 28 years, not to mention biological father of a child of his own, the fruit of communion with a nun.

It was just Fr. Vlasic’s luck that Benedict won the vote to be Pope in 2005. Back in 1976, letters the priest had written to the woman, then pregnant with his child instructing her to “imitate Mary” and stay schtum about the baby, fell into her landlady’s hands, who sent them to the Vatican.

But little enough happened as a result. Fr. Vlasic was at hand to take spiritual control at the first sighting of the Medjugorje Virgin in 1981. He wasn’t to know that the official on whose desk the letters had landed, and who had a famously vivid memory for this sort of thing, would rise through the ranks of the velvet bureaucracy and eventually be selected to succeed John Paul II.

John Paul had not endorsed, but neither had he explicitly denounced, the Medjugorje phenomenon, which by the end of his papacy had drawn 30m pilgrims from all parts of the world, including tens of thousands from Ireland.

Benedict clearly took a sterner view. The charge sheet drawn up against Fr. Vlasic at Benedict’s instruction last year accuses him of heresy, schism, sexual immorality “aggravated by mystical motivations” and “the diffusion of dubious doctrine, manipulation of consciences, suspect mysticism and disobedience towards legitimately issued orders.”

Benedict — supposing he isn’t acting as an agent of the Devil — may now feel that he is clearing up business which ought to have been gotten out of the way long ago.

The parish of Medjugorje is run by Franciscans at the Church of St James.

In the early 1940s, priests from the church had operated locally as the spiritual wing of the Ustashe, the Croatian Nationalist movement aligned with the Nazis which slaughtered 250,000 Orthodox Serbs in its effort to create a Catholic State for Catholic people.

Through all the change and tumult in the region since, the Franciscans of Medjugorje have resisted control by the Diocese of Mostar. Since the early 1980s, their “possession” of the Virgin, and their brilliant success in marketing her to the world, has been a trump card.

The political background isn’t remote. The Franciscans’ website, medjugorjepilgrim.com, currently provides intending pilgrims with a potted history of the district since the seventh century.

The early 40s are covered thus: “1941: During World War II, German and Italian forces |under Communist Tito (!) occupy Yugoslavia.

“1945: The Communists kill 69 people from the Franciscans community in Herzegovina in February and May.

“In the village of Siroki Brijeg on February 7, 1945, the Communists kill 760 parishioners and 30 Franciscan priests and brothers. They burn the school, library, archives and church records.” And that’s it. Croatian Holocaust denial.

Pilgrimages leave Ireland every week for Medjugorje. Joe Walsh Tours advertises a service which guarantees each pilgrim a personal meeting with a visionary.

The website of Knock airport tells that, “Uniquely special pilgrimage experiences are offered to Fatima, Lourdes and Medjugorje. Enjoy a relaxing holiday with a spiritual focus...” (We might wonder why Knock, with its offically endorsed BVM, would plug these counter-attractions. You scratch my back, perhaps?)

Whether or not the Devil is at work in all of this, and if he is, what side he’s on, there’s a whiff of sulphur in the air around Medjugorje that Benedict, understandably wants dispersed.

So what’s to become now of all the Medjugorje Prayer Groups across Ireland, including the North, many of which meet on Church premises?

And will we have a statement from the Northern Bishop who has personally led a pilgrimage to what he is now required to believe is a shrine to Satan

URL FOR THIS STORY AT THE BELFAST TELEGRAPH STORY BY EAMONN McCANN
YOU CAN POST COMMENTS ABOUT IT
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk...


So this Fr. Vlasic gets a nun pregnant (Six times or were there more nuns involved no wonder hes called father!!)and tries to get her to pretend its immaculate conception number two and but for his nosy land lady would probably have got away with it.

Obviously pope paul was suspicious but hey why spoil the party as the cash registers keep ching chinging.

Quote:
In the early 1940s, priests from the church had operated locally as the spiritual wing of the Ustashe, the Croatian Nationalist movement aligned with the Nazis which slaughtered 250,000 Orthodox Serbs in its effort to create a Catholic State for Catholic people.
This is the real story here and the lies and coverup on their current website show how much they will bend the truth to paint themselves whiter than white the lying scumbags


Thirty million pilgrims now that's a lot of gulls for the fleecing




posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:40 PM
link   
reply to post by orangeman dave
 





Thirty million pilgrims now that's a lot of gulls for the fleecing

Imagine selling a Virgin type candle for a dollar to everyone of them,

Thank god for avarice it makes everything kind of alright.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 07:39 PM
link   
Great post!

The Medjugorje saga, after many years of research and study, I believe is a "sign and wonder" as the bible states. Also, Fatima and Garabandal are “Signs and Wonders” as well. Interestingly, the Warning from God as mentioned at Garabandal and the whole Maitreya event is one and the same event, told by 2 separate groups.

What is one of the results from Fatima, Medjugorje and Garabandal? The worshiping of images, which is prohibited by God in the Bible. While the faithful will say the gathering together, and the friendliness and the praying together is a good thing, and it is. However, they're overlooking the main goal which was established through these three events: the worshiping of images, mostly the Virgin Mary, which is designed to disconnect us from praying to God, which is the ultimate goal of Satan. When we’re disconnected we’re most prone to sin. That’s what it is all about.

The devil played a very smart card in these cases –“appearing” before children in the form of a woman, a loving, motherly figure. The masses of course will believe children much more sooner than, let’s say, if the town drunks saw these apparitions. So Satan gathers his strength, uses some of it by materializing in front of children, who are of course passionate in what they saw and in those days are more truthful than kids are today. The kids really saw what they saw, but they did not test the spirit(s) like the bible instructs.

From Christ’s ascension to his 2nd coming, man lives on earth according to faith –that’s what it’s all about folks: believing in God All-Mighty even though we cannot see Him. That’s the purpose of this life: being human with blinders but learning to see from faith.

So, why would God allow Mary to appear during the time where man MUST live on earth according to their faith –learning how to acquire it, shape it, sharpen it, expanding and finally teaching it to others? REAL faith is not seeing with your human eyes, yet only the true-connected know this. Most people only believe something if they see it. So, Satan knowing this, appears to some children, the parents believe their children, the town believes the honorable parents, and so on –a new path has been created, away from the path of God, and another path into darkness. The great thing is Satan CANNOT make us sin, for then we were forced and it’s something we had no choice in. But, if you give people another choice, and they follow under their own free will, then it’s a true sin, and a true insult to God, and a win for Satan.

That’s what Fatima, Medjugorje and Garabandal is all about: not forcing people to sin, but presenting an alternative path for the spiritually weak to follow. When they follow an alternative to God they’re sinning under their own free will, which is Satan’s job from that dark moment in the Garden many full moons ago.

I urge you to do your own research, for my written words here will not teach those who are blind. You need to know the forms of deception that have taken place in order to see the forms of deception, including the Great Deception, that is about to come, including massive crowds of ghosts coming to life, many people “disappearing, and aliens who come to “teach” people how to reach the next level of consciousness, among other things. Remember, you cannot reach the level that Maitreya and them are talking about in human form, because that is not the purpose while in human form.

One of the reasons for Medjugorje is to teach us all to believe in what we see (the opposite of what God is trying to teach us while in human form). And getting us all to believe in what we see is going to have a HUGE part in the deception that’s coming. Alien’s aren’t beings from other planets. Medjugorje wasn’t really the Virgin Mary.

Satan is going to get us all to have faith in what we will be seeing, instead of having faith in God.

God bless!



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by OneNationUnder
What is one of the results from Fatima, Medjugorje and Garabandal? The worshiping of images, which is prohibited by God in the Bible.


Catholic do not worship Mary. They venerate her. There is a BIG difference. They don't worship images either.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:39 PM
link   
28 years? So there's pictures and videos of this thing? I'd love to see some.

[Edit] Nevermind, saw the pictures. All of them double exposures and the 'mary' in the exact same pose in everyone. Hoax.

[edit on 8/8/2009 by PsykoOps]



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 09:16 PM
link   
reply to post by PsykoOps
 

Psy ops
below is the link for pics and the background with the predictions.


Since 1981, in a small village in Bosnia-Hercegovina named Medjugorje, the Blessed Virgin Mary has been reportedly appearing and giving messages to the world. She tells us that God has sent Her to our world and, these years she is spending with us are a time of Grace granted by God. In Her own words She tells us, "I have come to tell the world that God exists. He is the fullness of life, and to enjoy this fullness and peace, you must return to God".



Our Lady continues to give messages to six people from the village of Medjugorje: Ivan, Jakov, Marija, Mirjana, Vicka, and Ivanka. These six people (referred to as "visionaries") have had apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary since June 24, 1981. In addition to these messages, Our Lady is to give each of the six visionaries a total of ten "secrets" or happenings that will occur on earth in the near future. Some of the secrets pertain to the whole world while others concern the visionaries themselves or their local village. Only one of the secrets so far has been revealed by the visionaries. Our Lady has promised to leave a supernatural, indestructable, and visible sign on the mountain where she first appeared. Our Lady said: "This sign will be given for the atheists. You faithful already have signs and you have become the sign for the atheists. You faithful must not wait for the sign before you convert; convert soon. This time is a time of grace for you. You can never thank God enough for His grace. The time is for deepening your faith and for your conversion. When the sign comes, it will be too late for many." When each of the six visionaries has received all ten "secrets", Our Lady will stop appearing to them on a daily basis. Currently, Marija, Vicka, and Ivan have received nine secrets, and Our Lady still appears to them every day, wherever they are, at 5:40pm during daylight savings time, and 6:40pm the rest of the year. Mirjana, Jakov, and Ivanka have received all ten secrets, and Our Lady appears to them once per year, and will do so for the rest of their lives. For Ivanka who received her 10th secret on May 7, 1985 it is on the anniversary of the apparitions, June 25 each year. For Jakov who received his 10th secret on September 12, 1998, it is on Christmas day each year. And for Mirjana who received her 10th secret on Christmas 1982, it is on her birthday, March 18 each year. Our Lady has also been appearing to Mirjana on the 2nd of each month since August 2, 1987 for the express purpose of praying for all unbelievers. Mirjana tells us that it is very important that all of us pray for the unbelievers in the world, who are defined as those who do not yet know God's love. Sometimes these appearances on the 2nd of each month are in apparitional form, and sometimes as locutions. No one knows when Our Lady will give the tenth secret to Marija, Ivan, and Vicka.

www.medjugorje.org...



I have been the Medjugorje, and I felt no spidey tingles I must say (which I do get but maybe Im a heathen)
It was like a mini vegas, all "glow in the dark mary's and rosary beads" etc.

I think it odd and am glad there is a thread on it now to work through.
I do read the message that is posted each month on the 25th more from a paranormal/human ineterest than as a faith thing.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 09:24 PM
link   
Well the images of the apparation were clear fakes. If these folks go to trouble to do that it's not far fetched that they make up a really good story to go along with those. I never thought that I'd say this but maybe the church is right for once



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 09:29 PM
link   
The secular clergy of Franciscans in the area and the powers of vatican have long fueded and the vatican findings intitally by the Bendictine bishop reporting to Raztinger despised them and basically gave it no credence. However JP2 instructed ratzinger to not accept the findings.


Some of what happened will immediately open your eyes to how bad things were in the region between the secular and Franciscan clergy and how it is in fact the secular bishops who come off with much of the stains on their own garments. If you're swayed by media reports of Franciscan disobedience and feeling that the secular clergy are all living saints, you might come to see a surprisingly reversed reality. It has led some observers to comment on how it is possible for the secular Bishop to call attention to Franciscan disobedience, when disobedience (and worse) was one of the things the Bishops themselves indulged in. It is highly political with the obedience card drawn like a six-gun as it suited people. It is un-Christian. It is embarrassing to me, personally, as a Catholic, to see grown Catholic men fighting in such a way

www.marian-times.com...


In his original article Mr. O'Shea correctly referred to the official declaration of Bishop Pavao Zanich (now deceased). The then bishop of Mostar had submitted a negative judgment to Cardinal Ratzinger, the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the reported apparitions of the Queen of Peace in Medjugorje. This was in 1986. What Mr. O'Shea did not inform us is that Cardinal Ratzinger rejected the negative conclusion of Bishop Zanich; that the cardinal relieved the bishop and his commission of any further authority in the matter of Medjugorje; and that he submitted the matter of Medjugorje to the Yugoslavian Bishops' Conference. What Mr. O'Shea did not inform us is that in April 1991 the Yugoslavian bishops held a conference in Zadar, Croatia and issued a declaration on Medjugorje, known as the Zadar declaration, which did not state that there is nothing supernatural but that "so far, it cannot be affirmed that one is dealing with supernatural apparitions and revelations."


There has been clarification on the apriartion since, below and the defrocking of the preist is a result of his alleged misbehaviour, not proof that Medjugorje aparitions are not supernatural.


in the summer of 1993, the cardinal primate of Croatia and president of the bishop's conference, further clarified the Zadar declaration as follows: "After three years of study conducted by the appropriate commission, we bishops have accepted Medjugorje as a place of prayer, a place of sanctuary. With regard to the supernatural factors of the apparitions, we have said that for now we cannot affirm that it exists. We therefore leave this aspect for further investigation by the Church. The Church is in no hurry."


The Vatican powers won't prove it false and declare to its flock "Dont go" because that woudn't make financial sence would it? Thats alot of people staying true to a declining faith, its a good drawcard for conversion.


In the summer of 1996, Dr. Joaquin Navarro-Valls, the spokesman for the Vatican, issued a statement on Medjugorje which was carried by Catholic News Service on August 21, 1996: "You cannot say people cannot go to Medjugorje until it has been proven false. This has not been said, so anyone can go if they want." In addition, when Catholic faithful go anywhere, they are entitled to spiritual care, so the Church does not forbid priests to accompany lay-organized trips to Medjugorje in Bosnia-Hercegovina.....snip...makes it clear to people that the Vatican is still studying the apparitions.

www.sffaith.com...

That said, the feeling of hope there from people is what brings energy to the place a few thousand a day meet for prayer and that combined focus does give back something to the community that pray there.

Do they see the Virgin Mary?
Why is it now like a recording on the 25th and Christmas.
If it is a spiritual entity why only those dates?
The priest is suss, but the prayer messages are usually for peace and thats not a bad thing.
Though the calls the conversion can be tiresome...but that is the point...I believe that the Vatican does not declare it false, instead removes the person from power of the congregation...here lies the conspiracy.

The Vatican defrocking the preist, may be related to his doing but I suspect has more to do with taking control of the revenue and conversions Medjugorje generates...I'd probaly bet a pair of glow in the dark roasry beads on that.....


t emerged on Sunday that he has chosen to leave the priesthood and his order, a move which has brought the investigation to an abrupt halt. But the Pope has insisted that Father Vlasic observes a set of conditions on pain of excommunication which include a total ban on teaching Christian doctrine and giving spiritual direction. There is also an "absolute prohibition of releasing declarations on religious matters, especially regarding the phenomenon of Medjugorje".

www.telegraph.co.uk...


[edit on 8-8-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 08:03 AM
link   
reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Great reply my friend it says you feel quote( embarrassing to me, personally, as a Catholic) do you also feel the same shame that the Vatican aided with the extermination of 250,000 Orthodox Christians.

I want to know a bit more about this heinous act against humanity it is clear that the Catholic Church have been involved in acts like these since their foundation.

We see the likes of Milosivic and others being tried fro war crimes but to date i know of no Priest or Monk to have been convicted for similar offences.

I take it you know if this is true i'm assuming it is or it would't be in print, can you explain more as i'm curious to know the truth and you know more than me on the subject at hand.

Peace



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 04:04 AM
link   
reply to post by orangeman dave
 


I am what you would call a recovering Catholic not a very good one Im afraid...sorry. I feel as much shame for the acts of the vatican a I do for the acts of Pol Pot, or Hitler...I don't disassociate my humanity from any other religion or Nationalty. I personally feel they are all learned behaviours and just perpetuate "this is mine, I deserve more than you" mentality. It is the acts of men struggling for power and to maintain it at the expence of their own humanity, wearing their individual faiths or nationality as their badge, but its always boiling down to one thing...and thats power driven by ego entitlement.

The acts of the vatican you mention will not see trial as quite simply its not politcal to do so. Too much money and power at stake. It's so complex.

When delving into the Balkans Hotspot..u are braver than most inlcuding me, as there is no "my side is right" answer that can be given.....Remember this..The Serbs were Allies...to the victor went the righteous label...but how does one account for the recent attrocties, that should be more of a concern that nothing was learnt from the 40's, does the injustice of WW2 make OK Srebrenica genocide in the 90s as an example? I say NOPE to both sides misguided power struggle., they should be brothers and sisters, so alike......anyway I prattle on....The Balkans are a topic that none should even try and enter..gaaaah

This WW2 topic is probably not what I would associte with Medjugorje, Indeed it would be a fascinating in another thread, but not limited to that genocide. Humanity has committed genocide since day dot, one is as bad as the other. The Vatican killed over a million women in the witch hunt/inquisition....Where in time to you stop going back to?

Focusing on Medjugorje over the last 28 years instead....
The Franciscans of that region have seen themselves as secular clergy and don't have as much ties to the vatican like the benedictines papal obedience...believe me, all you read is propoganda. And it is very hard to disseminate the truth. There is no right side when it comes to power struggles.

With Medjugorje 2 hting sinterest me currently.
The conspiracy behind the priests outing, is it financially and politically motivated by the Vatican, previously they didnt condemn it even though it was Franciscan because JP2 it is understood believed the messages. Ratzinger has had more power in at that vatican than JP2 did in some areas, but the people need a Mary in thi sdy and age, and JP2 knew the benefitof that kind of marketing... Ratzinger has been in control for a heck of a time. But now he wants control of the Franciscan stronghold, I understand their tithes to the vatican are not so heavy and is distributed more back to commmunity. Was the preist deserving...I say lets wait and see which order gets the new parish preist there......

The other point is, are the aparitions
Paranormal?
Supernatural?
Mytsical?
Hoax.

Currently it covers too much bringing in ww2, it makes my head hurt, and eye twitch....
Zazz.



[edit on 10-8-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 04:11 AM
link   
reply to post by orangeman dave
 


Interesting, well perhaps the pope is right on this one? hah... my opinion is every single 'vision' of the virgin mary has always been a false miracle created by the devil, what's the holiest image the devil could use, in an attempt to blaspheme the most, perhaps making it commmon practice for believers to worship the mother of Jesus? That in my opinion is the reason the devil chooses her as his logo, to cause people to worship the wrong person at the same time annoy God, this of course is a far fetched opinion of my own and I am clear to add 'my opinion' to every radical 'theory' that I post.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 01:51 AM
link   
The bishop of the area has now declared that no commentary can be posted to congregations ocn the alleged Mary monthly apparitions. The Preist that was defrocked commented since inception.
And so the taking over of this lucrative little mini vegas from the Fransicans to the Vatican is underway



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 11:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady

Originally posted by OneNationUnder
What is one of the results from Fatima, Medjugorje and Garabandal? The worshiping of images, which is prohibited by God in the Bible.


Catholic do not worship Mary. They venerate her. There is a BIG difference. They don't worship images either.



Hi sad/

Well said!
I cannot understand how people MIS-READ the VENERATION part and the WORSHIP part!
It is similar to a picture of a loved one....the image presented on the piece of paper reminds them of them,it is a perfect example of remembrance!
Why do people of no background knowledge of Christianity go to OUTSIDE source to tell them of what VENERATE or WORSHIP is?
Now, If I wanted an answer about a medical problem, I wouldn't go to the Mechanics?
Simple as that!

As for the Original post about the article....
I too agree that 'Miracles' can be deceptive.
A miracle usually happens when there is a spiritual significance to it...there needs to be a valid reason as to why this has occured.
When I first read about it,I understood it as false because of the childrens behaviour in keeping their visits to the place,in 'secrecy' between themselves, and later only to the priests?... the article has proven a bad ending!
That's what usually happens when secrets are left secrets, and when hidden, are later exposed!

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 02:45 AM
link   
The Christian textbook (The Bible) and God Himself does not approve of this whole Virgin Mary thing.

I'm still wondering to this day and age why supposed Christians and its sub-sects still continue with the whole Virgin Mary worship. It's on the basic ten commandments; Christ warned us about such things and it still fell on deaf ears.

Students have their textbooks for study. Christians have their textbooks (Bible) for study. But the latter doesn't study.




top topics



 
1

log in

join