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there are patterns and repetitions all throughout the universe but these are part of the world of duality and so are like an illusion that helps us make sense of things and basically be translated to our conciousness
And yours are what? :S
Its from a human perspective, human rules, human preconceptions
...As you can tell...How do you tell? How can you say that so matter-of-factly, especially since I have just challenged your preconception of "duality exists", rather strongly I might add. So please, enlighten me.
Duality exists at every level of existance until you reach the godhead source of all things as I can tell.
I would hardly call Gravity subtle. And before you try and challenge the concept of Gravity, I am referring to the force that causes an object to accelerate toward earth. Manipulation of these forces effect miracles? They dont cause then...the effect them. So if they can be affected by forces, then what are miracles exactly?
Subtle energy forces bind us and manipulation of these can effect miracles
a miracle is any happening or circumstance which is so highly unliely as to be incapable of being ascribed to simple chance without stretching the bounds of reasonable thinking
Originally posted by Majestic23
I just feel very sorry for people such as you. You are not like the sheeple because you are too inquisitive and smart but you are not like the enlightened because you are convinced you know enough.
If you really want to know why people like me believe in miracles its because we have useually experienced things that cannot be explained or even imagined by modern academics (not just one incident,usueally many). Things that measure 10 on the scale of mind bending terror. Its more real than anything else in this illusion of our waking reality.
Right, you would firstly have to say that the Big Bang is incapable of being ascribed to 'simple chance'...which I dont believe you can do...OTHERWISE i will simply say that GOD is a MIRACLE.
but who was anticipating divine intervention? How can one intervene with something that does not exist.
Originally posted by Toughiv
Right, if i flip and coin **and it lands the probability of it being heads is 1/2. What you are doing when talking of seagulls or disappearing acts is just adding in external factors, to a somewhat simplified probability.
Originally posted by ToughivWe are socialble creatures by evolution, by nature. So to add weight to my argument of how duality is imposed by us. If I am in a group of people and I hit one of them, I see that me hitting them causes discomfort and so causes them to dislike me. I do not want to be disliked, due to my nature (safety in numbers, hence the reason why you see all forms of life group together:prides, schools, herds and so on.), I would see that action of hitting as "wrong" or "bad" since it would produce a social affect I do not want. NOT BECAUSE it is INHERENTLY wrong to hit people.
Originally posted by ToughivAnd yours are what? :S
Originally posted by Toughiv...As you can tell...How do you tell? How can you say that so matter-of-factly, especially since I have just challenged your preconception of "duality exists", rather strongly I might add. So please, enlighten me.
Originally posted by ToughivYou also wish for me to challenege "we are all one". I wouldnt dare. We are all one, if you think of a big enough scale. We are human. A species that exists on the surface of a really hot rock that orbits a ball of gas that we call the Sun. So yes you are quite right, on a large scale, we are all one.
Originally posted by ToughivWe have already had one definition which has shown to be lacking, of which I shall remind you
a miracle is any happening or circumstance which is so highly unliely as to be incapable of being ascribed to simple chance without stretching the bounds of reasonable thinking
Originally posted by ToughivCare to change or add your own? Id love to hear it.
Originally posted by ToughivMay I ask, where do miracles come from? Is it a divine intervention? If so, then can you define the character of this said being that is intervening? If we are going to argue about the God of Classical Theism, i.e. All-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving...then it leads me to wonder
Originally posted by ToughivWhat sort of all powerful, all knowing being would create something that has flaws, so that they can amuse themselves by running around fixing everything through miracles. They must have been making a cup of tea during world war 2.
Originally posted by Astyanax
Save your sympathy. If you were a tenth as aware and enlightened as you think you are, you would know you are being patronizing and therefore obnoxious.
Originally posted by AstyanaxWhat presumptuous, high-and-mighty poppycock. You have no idea what I have experienced. I spent most of my adult life - and I am fifty-one years old, by the way - in the middle of a civil war. I have driven through a burning neighbourhood and watched the inhabitants being slaughtered by a racist mob. I had to stop the car and change a tyre in the middle of that. I have seen bodies piled on tyres and set alight, bodies hanging from lamp-posts, bodies floating down rivers. Blood and guts littering a street in the aftermath of a suicide-bombing. A friend of mine was taken away in the middle of the night and shot dead by uniformed assassins. I carried his coffin at a funeral where the mourners were hemmed in threateningly by armed troops. And you have the gall to preach to me about terror?
Originally posted by AstyanaxI wrote you a courteous post. You responded with a blundering, mealymouthed, hypocritical sermon. Well, I'm not a member of your precious congregation, so enough with the prating. When I need enlightenment, I'll get it from a fortune cookie.
Originally posted by Toughiv
You say just because dualism is an illusion, but 'good' and 'bad' have meaning. Where do you draw this conclusion?
Originally posted by ToughivI would argue that it is part of our nature to try and see reason and logic in everything around us. Therefore, you saying 'good' and 'bad' have meaning is simply the nature of our conciousness, to believe in something more. We cannot simply believe we are here, we werent put here, we dont have reason. We just happen to be here. Thats is. Get on with it.
Originally posted by ToughivWhen you say where is the energy source for the Universe to 'move' (which I am taking as expand) the big bang theory provides strong evidence as to why this is the case. More credible than "The Universe is moving because God is making it move".
Originally posted by ToughivNow YOUR definition of a miracle "Energy reacting in a way that is not usually seen" Here ladies and gentlemen, by this most wonderful definition, an atomic bomb is a miracle. Tell that to the descendants of the families vapourised in Hiroshima.
Originally posted by Majestic23
Does your life on Earth mean nothing? Of course it means something, just because its an illusion does not mean it isnt important, it still has wide reaching effects.
Example, in WW2 the both armies used decoy tanks etc... they saved many lives and stretched the enemy resources. An illusion having an effect.
What exactly are you arguing here? Since when does anything exist without a reason? Nature doesnt like to waste energy if it can help it.
What was the energy source for the big bang then? You can keep going until you get to the source of energy, that energy just happens to be god and by god I mean the interlinked energy and consciousness of all beings.
Such energy is not inherantly evil its only evil when you use it to destroy and kill. Iam sure "the descendants of the families vapourised in Hiroshima" would agree. And even so, if we are taking into account that duality is an illusion and we are all here to experience the full spectrum then it could be argued that its not evil.
Would you call Einstein evil?
According to the scriptures Jesus went about the land healing the sick,feeding thousands with only a few fishes and loaves, raising the dead, pulling money from the mouth of a fish, walking on water...etc.... now when His disciples looked and acted all amazed, He told them not to be surprised that if they had faith even as small as a mustard seed, they could do the same and greater, He said they could tell the mountains to jump into the sea and they would obey...
according to one of the lost books of the bible, when Jesus was a child he would make animals from mud/clay and animate them... How?
2. When This Boy Jesus was five years old
He was playing at the ford of a brook,
and He gathered into pools the water that flowed by,
and made it at one lean, and commanded it by His WORD alone.
He made soft clay and fashioned from it twelve sparrows. And it was the Sabbath when He did this.
And there were also many other children playing with Him.
Now when a certain Jew saw what Jesus was doing in His play on The Sabbath, he at once went and told His father Joseph:
"See, your child is at the brook, and He has taken clay and fashioned twelve birds
and has profaned The Sabbath."
And when Joseph came to the place and saw it, he cried out to Him, saying:
"Why do You do on The Sabbath what ought not to be done?"
But Jesus clapped His hands and cried to the sparrows:
"Off with you!" And the sparrows took flight and went away chirping.
The Jews were amazed when they saw this, and went away and told their elders what they had seen Jesus do.
3. But the son of Annas the scribe was standing there with Joseph;
and he took a branch of a willow and with it dispersed the water which Jesus had gathered together.
When Jesus saw what he had done He was enraged and said to him:
"You insolent, godless dunderhead, what harm did the pools and the water do to you?
See, now you also shall wither like a tree and shall bear neither leaves nor root nor fruit."
And immediately that lad withered up completely;
and Jesus departed and went into Joseph's house.
But the parents of him that was withered took Him away, bewailing His youth, and brought him to Joseph and reproached him:
"What A Child you have, Who does such things."
4. After this again He went through the village,
and a lad ran and knocked against His shoulder.
Jesus was exasperated and said to him:
"You shall not go further on your way,"
and the child immediately fell down and died.
But some, who saw what took place, said: From where does This Child spring,
since His every Word is an accomplished deed?"
And the parents of the dead child came to Joseph and blamed him and said:
"Since you have such a Child, you cannot dwell with us in the village;
or else teach Him to bless and not to curse. For He is slaying our children."
5. And Joseph called The Child aside and admonished Him saying:
"Why do You do such things that these people must Suffer and hate us and persecute us?"
But Jesus replied: "I know that these Words are not yours; nevertheless for Your sake I will be silent.
But they shall bear their punishment."
And immediately those who had accused Him became blind.
And those who saw it were greatly afraid and perplexed, and said concerning Him:
"Every Word He speaks, whether good or evil, was a dead and became a marvel."
And when Joseph saw that Jesus had so done, he arose and took Him by the ear and pulled it hard.
And The Child was angry and said to him:
"It is sufficient for you to seek and not to find
and most unwisely have you acted.
Do you not know that I am yours? Do not vex Me."
Surely someone on this earth has had the tiniest bit of faith...why hasn't anyone else been able to do miracles?
Did Jesus have access to secret knowledge?
If so what knowledge and whose?
Like in the old testament, the magicians mimicked nearly everything that God had Moses do? Is this maybe part of the same knowlege?
Or was it all just trickery?
Why would He say we could do the same and more if only we believed?
Is faith the same as postive thinking?
If secret knowlege, has it been lost over time?
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
People live in eternal conflict between the competing hemispheres of your brain.
The left side wants to ask the pretty girl at the end of the bar to dance, the right side says she will never agree don't embarass yourself.
Lack of faith.
The left side wants that new leather jacket, the right says what are you a biker and a Rockefeller that thing costs way to much money.
Lack of faith.
You see the special on the menu at the restaurant and the left side says try it, it sounds really good. The right side says, but you love the chicken here, it won't be as good as the chicken get the chicken. You get the chicken and the people at the next table got the special and the smell of it alone makes you hate yourself for not trying it.
Lack of faith.
The faith isn't in Christ, or G-d, the faith is in yourself to end your endless eternal debate.
As a Christian you likely really do believe in Christ and G-d, and feel you have absolute faith, but when you pray to Christ or G-d most people who do don't have absolute faith that their prayers will be answered...they love to say G-d's will. In other words I am going to ask G-d or Christ for this or that in the form of a prayer or commune with him, but I don't have absolute faith that I deserve what I am asking them for, just like I didn't have absolute faith the girl would dance with me, or to get that new jacket, or to try the special at the resturaunt.
Your belief in Jesus and G-d is real, but your belief in yourself isn't real.
When you can succesfully become one with yourself, where there is no more argument and you have absolute faith in yourself and what you believe and what you want and feel it intently and totally with all your soul, mind and heart, then you can become one with the infinate universe and you can become one with the power of the inifinite universe and you can tap into that power to use it to manifest what you want in the infinite universe.
Then after you have blown your mind, shattered your illusion of reality for ever, feel guilty and horrible about what you have done, you can go for therapy and try real hard to convince yourself it never happened and to never do it again because you really just want to be human.
You like most people really just want to be human, and humans (99.999999999% of them) lack faith in themselves.
It's not about faith in Christ or G-d, though people do use their faith in Christ and G-d and talismans and spells and rituals to convince themselves it is possible for things to manifest in miraculous ways and attribute the results to those things instead of themselves.
It's really about faith in yourself, absolute faith.
Word of caution, open some doors in the universe and there is no going back.
Igrnorance is bliss, that's why most humans choose it!