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Palin: Obama's 'death panel' would decide Trig's care

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



By the way, one more thing...that's really got me wondering Sir...you see the other day I was talking to Mrs. Columbo about health care reform and she mentioned your cigars...


Very good!




posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 



This is a culmination of frustration, not an awakening.


I do not disagree. I was just referring to the current fiasco. I mentioned in another thread that I, along with others, am tired of our elected officials only holding these town hall shows to try to sell their garbage to us, rather than using them to listen to their constituents. This is where they should be getting their instructions...Not from the executive branch.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
She;s only play acting, for heavens sakes.

Role playing is what they do in the day time and at the end of the day they call one another and laugh at us.

They all want the same thing for us. Death.



Probably the best post to the thread...I couldn't agree more...but come on fess up we laugh at them too at the end of the day? right? right?



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by WTFover
 


Okay, I see what you're saying.

I agree. They are flat-out neglecting their sworn duty. This has been known for quite a while but they are becoming blatant in their disregard.

It has been said a few times in the last few days, but yeah, this is a tipping point of sorts.

They, the Government, ARE now transparent, just like Obama promised. Transparently fraudulent.

Question is, why?

Why now?

Are they ready for a takeover?



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 


The Bush White House was probably the most criminal orgnization in the history of the world.

Most of Congress is complicit and Obama's number one job like any President is to cover the previous President's behind as best as they can.

Trillions have been looted from the treasury in the Bailouts.

Historically the last act of any government is to loot the Treasury.

Right now it's a kind of a race against a few things...first is 9-11 if the truth ever does come out it would likely lead to wide spread violence and a violent overthrow of the government.

Once again most of Congress is complicit they helped cover up the facts in the 9-11 Commission Report.

Next is the economy. There is absolutely no way based on what they have done that it can get better. The only thing that would make it better is creating real living wage non-government jobs and they have not done that, made any attempt to that, or have any plans to do that.

They are still sucking money out of the economy through Stock Market manipulation, the big money jumps in makes it goes up, suckers in the little money, and then the big money hops back out wiping out the little money and the gains in the process.

When there is no money left to suck out of the economy and the economy only keeps getting worse the people are going to realize once again they have been duped and once again Congress is Complicit.

The goal is actually massive population reduction, the fighting of World War III, the elimination of religions, and the establishment of a one world government that in theory people will want, accept and demand because of all the corruption in governments, the financial system and bloody wars.

They want to eliminate 1/3 of the world's population in the process and to pull it all off America basically has to implode in on itself through civil war so that a Totaltarian Regime can step in and impose brutal and strict order so an independent minded American populace no longer exists to fight against a one world government.

It's why they selected Obama, ultimately he can play the race card and no matter how transparent he is, or how transparent his administration is they know blacks will fight for him out in the streets simply because he is black and the first black President and they can be convinced that all his woes and failures are White Right Wing Racists setting him up.

The Powers that Be are playing the Race Card by selecting and installing Obama as the President.

It only works of the Administration becomes so corrupt it causes it to come under attack from mainstream middle America and when I mean under attack, I am not talking rhetoric I am talking acts of violence.

They are a little behind schedule but it's shaping up to look like the Health Care issue which the poor and poor minorities are going to see as a real gift from the government will rally for.

Once it spills into the street and threatens the Administrations rule the minorities and die hard liberals will further rally around Obama.

You let the people fight it out and exhaust their stored food supplies and ammunition, and then you call out selected troops from the Army and the United Nations to restore order.

Obama will legally claim he has a Constitutional right to serve out his term and deserves NATO and UN Help to do so, a discredited and badly divided congress with opposition in the minority will not be able to impeach him.

They have to do it before the mid-term elections because at this rate the Democrats could loose their House Majority with a slew of independents and some additional republicans probably voted in by frustrated citizens.

Iran and Israel go to war.

An Iranian errant missile will end up hitting the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

The Islamic World will not believe it was an Iranian errant missile because it in fact won't be.

The Zionists will build their Third Temple on the Ruins, the Islamic World will rise up to attack them, the Western World will rise up to defend them and the dead will add up into the hundreds and hundreds of millions.

Russia will side with the Islamic World, and China will wait it out until it's almost over and step in and mop up the rest of the Western, Arab, and Soviet Armies and use their 2,000,000 man force to secure basically every nation while a New World Order One World Government is declared.

That's the plan and it all has to go down before 2012 when Obama comes up for reelection and the Age of Aquarius begins and Rome has to relinquish Power cause the timer on the game ran out.

Your mission should you choose to accept it...

Keep yourself alive!



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Awesome post.

Aside from all of the great insight I have to wonder, why 2012?

Why THAT date?

Why when everyone is saying that something drastic will happen?

The Mayans?

They said that 2012 is a time for great triumph following times of great hardship.

Were the Mayans predicting the cataclysmic condition of man leading into something that they were fighting against for no reason?

You say that a third of the population will perish. The Mayans say it is more like half. But in the end people will be better off. Is this what they mean?

Surely not. Nobody can know that but god.

The PTB aren't THAT damned good.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I live just south of Canada and they don't seem to have any problems like that. You walk into a clinic, show your card and get treated. Can anyone tell me what is actually in this bill instead of getting all hysterical about it? As for this "grassroots" uprising it is right out of Carl Rove's playbook.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by otheym
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Can anyone tell me what is actually in this bill instead of getting all hysterical about it? As for this "grassroots" uprising it is right out of Carl Rove's playbook.


Yeah. It's right here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There's a reason for this "Grassroots uprising". And it's not from some playbook.

Read the bill, then get back to us.

Palin is right on this one.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:15 AM
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This surprises anyone? American politics has gone from worryingly serious to worrying hilarious. Shes preaching to her choir, the intellectual lowest common denominator. Never argue with someone stupid, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by otheym
 





You walk into a clinic, show your card and get treated.


I have used the national healthcare in Japan. I was stationed in the UK, and heard from brits what they think of their national healthcare. What they are trying to set up here is nothing like either of those, and I am sure it differs from that of our northern neighbor, too.

I am all for a national healthcare system, and everyone having equal treatment available from the government. However, I am in no way supportive of what is being set up here.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by Solomons
 


From what I understand there is going to be a "group" that it is really organized by. It will be gov't paid but non affiliated. Most likely a contract.

I think that is a reasonable way to go.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Proto, is there more then one of you, I have been reading your informative and brilliant post all day long, man you are fast, dang, I'm just say'in.

You wrote a book today, I hope people are paying attention.

[edit on 093131p://bSaturday2009 by Stormdancer777]



This is why ATS is thre best. People like this . I was just thinking before I got to your post that I don't have enought time to read all of Protoplasmic's post , how did he/she even have the time to write all that. Cheers to you!!



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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I highly recommend watching the movie Logan's Run. Some people may find it very educational. Yes, the story telling and effect are horrible and it is a bit cheesy, but well worth watching for the foundation story of the society.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The sensible thing to do would for the Government to first get a handle on Medicare and Medicaide and clean up the rampant fraud in the system and prove they can manage their existing health system first.

...
The health care system is out of control, my two eldest boys were diagnosed with attention deficit disorder and bi-polar disease earlier this year...


PT, I love your posts.
You remind me off a family friend who used to come over; we'ld have great discussions and lots of laughs, sometimes over an ice cold beer. Times past, times past...

Anyway, I came from a time when there was more effort at rooting out fraud, and doctors/white collar workers actually were sent to prison for fraud. Hell, I came from a time when the border patrol actually deported workers here illegally, and not only when the workers were about to get a paycheck.

The citizen idea of not wanting "jack booted thugs" taking them off to prison, of keeping govt at bay, has been used at the corporate level to make sure politicians deregulate and depeople those govt offices that would root out fraud, waste, and corruption. As the world we live in becomes more complicated, it does take more effort to go after govt/white collar criminals, but we have witnessed a lessening of the effort. Corporate control of govt has taken decades to get to this point, right in front of our eyes (like slowly bringing the pot of water to boil to cook us, the lobsters). The effects of this "cooking" cannot go away overnight.

We have been trained to fight ourselves in the front yard over foolish/small ideas that don't mean anything in our day to day lives, while those who would steal from us come through the back yard to rob us blind. Instead of banding together to demand an end to corruption, citizenry has been made effete by being trained to the myth of the "rugged individual" and the idea of "personal responsibility". We no longer even discuss "corporate responsibility"!

I came from a time when it was not easy to get a diagnosis for ADD. Now there is a pill/procedure for everything "unpleasant", and PRIVATE health insurance is just as guilty in allowing this. Making money is what corporations are SUPPOSED to do, even if it doesn't make sense to your health. Already our health care is rationed, anytime a company says "No" to a treatment or refuses to pay for services (as in deductibles, co-payments). What good is a health insurance plan if you can't use it? Insurance is good for houses, cars, business, etc., but NOT for health care.

Now that the idea of paying for consulting with a doctor over end of life wishes has been brought up, I predict that private insurance companies will start to include it in their policies.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by desert]



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by desert
 





Anyway, I came from a time when there was more effort at rooting out fraud, and doctors/white collar workers actually were sent to prison for fraud. Hell, I came from a time when the border patrol actually deported workers here illegally, and not only when the workers were about to get a paycheck.

The citizen idea of not wanting "jack booted thugs" taking them off to prison, of keeping govt at bay, has been used at the corporate level to make sure politicians deregulate and depeople those govt offices that would root out fraud, waste, and corruption. As the world we live in becomes more complicated, it does take more effort to go after govt/white collar criminals, but we have witnessed a lessening of the effort. Corporate control of govt has taken decades to get to this point, right in front of our eyes (like slowly bringing the pot of water to boil to cook us, the lobsters). The effects of this "cooking" cannot go away overnight.



Thanks friend, you make some incredible and important points in your posts. I guess guys getting together to talk politics and current events over a few beers and boiler makers went out the window with the 9-5 workday, the living wage, and people becoming virtually attached to their personal computers...meet you in person are you crazy?

Oh the thrills of online dating!

When I was a small boy that was my favorite pastime, sitting under the pavilions and awnings with the elderly listening to them talk politics and history and debating with a friendly passion that never got ugly or ill-mannered.

I learned a lot from those early experiences of looking at the world through the eyes of the elderly, worldly and experienced at a tender age.

That was the early 70's and Orwell's 1984 weighed heavily on such men’s minds and hearts. They had already been witnessing the slow march towards it and were stymied has to how to slow the march towards a Corporate Government and a Big Brother Police State.

They made it impossible for me to be indoctrinated into the system, the standard conditioning and propaganda in school just never worked for me and trying to convince me of it sure never worked for them.

At 14 the County and State with the permission of the Federal Government agreed that if I didn't want a State sponsored education they would not force one on me.

Of course it went into a detailed contract! Our corporate government loves contracts! Most people have no idea how many contracts they end up signing that end up over riding constitutional law and create a superseding contract with the corporate government.

I was born into the "land of the free of the brave" and have watched it over the course of my lifetime become the land of the fearful, intimidated and cowered.

I never expected much out of life knowing I wouldn't have a corporate pedigree in the way of diplomas and degrees, but it didn't stop my love of independent learning.

Reared entirely out of the box, entirely self educated, with completely unorthodox thinking, rebelling against the system and authority to make points of principal to my utter amazement my greatest fans turned out to be The Powers that Be.

Able to think absent the instilled morality and conflicting laws that slant the playing field to assess situations and personalities in a split second the very same people who had led the drive to turn my generation into brain dead confused zombies literally stood in awe and put out a welcome matt to the world of corporate governance, corruption, manipulation and greed I had always suspected existed with a hearty smile, a congratulatory pat on the back amazed at my resilience and ingenuity.

The World of the Powers that be is a tight nit cloistered and privileged one where despite their jovial good natured manners, polish and etiquette an underlying disdain and contempt for the common man exists.

The masses are seen as nothing but an annoying impediment to their dominance and goals. They believe we lack the intellect, initiative and self discipline to be an effective force for our own good. They liken themselves to baby sitters, and parents and honestly as I struggled through my teen years and early adulthood constantly dismayed at how gullible and submissive most people were I found it very hard to fault their assessment.

Save of course for the fact that they work awful hard to make sure people are gullible and submissive.

Yet they knew that I knew by my own experience the system of brainwashing could be defeated and escaped from if one was really willing to stand and endure the ridicule and punishments and loss of privileges and keep fighting back and keep standing your ground.

They in fact have immense respect for someone, anyone who can in a civilized manner.

Being in the Travel Business and their constant need for travel made me a popular and busy guy as they invited me to their clubs, social get-togethers, political events, and so on and so forth. Imagine my surprise the day I received a gold leafed invitation in the mail from the Queen of England inviting me to attend a charity function on the Royal Yacht Britannica while it sailed off of Newport Beach, CA. Not bad for a guy with a 7th Grade Education and no blue blood lineage.

If people only knew how the real system of governance and politics worked.

Yet the reality is you really can't tell them. 9,999 out of 10,000 people simply will not believe it. The illusion of their freedom and representative democracy and the constitution and America as the mightiest and greatest nation on earth is just to deeply ingrained in them to want to give it up.

A comforting lie that they grieve for to the point of denial if you try to take it away.

So the Powers that Be operate with near impunity from the masses they rob from, enslave and deceive.

Most people of enough intelligence are simply brought into the fold when they rise up on to the radar and display real tallent, real skills, and real understanding they can put to use in their well oiled machine.

It's an offer that is hard for most people to refuse, the wealth, the inside track, the protection is all incredibly seductive.

I simply responded with 'well as long as you are buying' and 'pay your bills when presented'.

When you get to that level and you realize there really is no place to go to expose them. The politically appointed Agency Heads in Government all appointed by them, the local chief of police, theirs too, the News Paper publishers ditto, the TV Stations the same. They can bury and suppress almost anything they want to and occasionally toss someone outside the circle playing the same game or inside the circle but a weak link set up from the get go to be tossed to the wolves to make it look like their is an honest system in place and in play but there really isn't.

It's like Medusas’ heads. You could cut one off and it would regenerate itself while the rest are still attacking you.

They control the entire infrastructure and rule because of it.

It's like a cancer that has grown so deep into the vital organs there is no way to kill it without killing the host body.

At the highest levels it's not about the wealth, it's about making sure other people and the masses can't amass wealth. They hated the affluent hippie generation standing outside of the White House on the Mall in the hundreds of thousands giving the President panic attacks. They worked diligently from that point on to keep gradually lowering the living wage and standard of living to make sure people would never have that kind of freedom of mobility and time on their hands again.

They have done a pretty darn good job. The educational standards have kept getting lower, the blue collar jobs have dried up, the easy revolving credit they have extended keeps people pretty much indentured servants working away night and day watching their pennies to make their payments on time so they can keep enjoying the Madison Avenue driven consumer lifestyle of keeping up with the Joneses.

They could be uprooted but alas their control of the infrastructure would cause it to collapse in the wake, and major population centers would turn in to starvation camps where people would kill each other in the streets for a bread crumb while the nation itself found itself all but completely isolated and cut off from the rest of the world that they also control and control the infrastructure of.

The process of then obtaining food, and energy, currency, and getting them distributed to hundreds of millions of people would be daunting, slow and arduous and all have to be carried out with a background of civil unrest, widespread panic and hunger, and lawlessness in the streets.

That would be the easy part!

The hard part is the rest of the world they control and they would want what they consider to be theirs back, so everyone from England to China would be sending troops to try to restore their lost hegemony and rule.

I put all that out there so the 'Don't Tread on Me' crowd understands what it is really up against.

The reality is it was the same in 1782 when our three man delegation arrived at the Court of Versailles by way of the Court of their High Mightiness of the Netherlands and the Court of Madrid to negotiate the 'victory' with the King of England whose real power was Prince Elector and Treasurer of the Holy Roman Empire as the other courts that had to be addressed belonged to the Holy Roman Empire...where they found out the victory they had won was an appointment with the creditors and corporate owners of the land they had been fighting over.

I don't blame people for not wanting to have to accept it's all a lie and having to deal with the consequences and reality.

It's still all a lie though!



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by otheym
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I live just south of Canada and they don't seem to have any problems like that. You walk into a clinic, show your card and get treated. Can anyone tell me what is actually in this bill instead of getting all hysterical about it? As for this "grassroots" uprising it is right out of Carl Rove's playbook.


Canada and the United States are too very different yet seemingly similiar creatures.

The most important difference between Canada and the United States is the Population of California is bigger than the entire population of Canada.

Canada is a Common Wealth Country controlled by the Crown.

The United States is a corporation controlled by the Bank of England.

Canada has 12% per volume aclohol Beer and 18% per volume wine. Most of America has 4% beer and 8% per volume wine.

Canada has Lumberjacks...the United States ain't got Jack as in nooooo they don't actually have the real health bill formulated just three conflicting 1,000 page versions and that's what has most people up in arms.

What has especially the Elderly up in arms is the clauses dealing with 'life ending consultations' which is being put forward as the long sought after by the likes of Doctor Kevorkian..."The right to die".

In America assisted suicide for the terminally ill to end their pain and suffering is against the law.

This new bill would likely make 'assisted suicide' legal for the terminally ill and disabled but the elderly fear if their health care is entirely up to the Government that they might find they will be forced or coerced into ending their own life with medical assistance, or worse have the government decide for them it's time for their life to end.

While a huge segment entailing a slim majority of Americans comprised of mostly naive youth, minorities and die hard left wing liberals have immense faith in our new President, and his carefully coreographed international public relations campaigns, congenial good looks and suave charm have much of the world loving him as well, nearly half the nation distrusts our government and it's endemnic corruption intensely regardless of who is at the helm.

People by nature are resistent to change, and more so when they don't know what all the change will entail, and more so when the change seems to have a clause that leads to lethal injections!





[edit on 9/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Solomons
 


From what I understand there is going to be a "group" that it is really organized by. It will be gov't paid but non affiliated. Most likely a contract.

I think that is a reasonable way to go.


What is the likelyhood this 'contract' would be handled like those of Haliburton, Blackwater, etc.? Do you really want to take that risk? I still believe the solution falls to the citizenry. We should hold the fate of own health, in our own hands.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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The bottom line, they said, is that there is "no current factual support for so-called slippery-slope concerns about the risks of legalization of assisted dying -- concerns that death in this way would be practiced more frequently on persons in vulnerable groups."

source


So, why are people afraid to change the health care system? Not only do people fear change (even in a dysfunctional system) but because media is bombarding them with how bad and expensive a public option or single-payer program would be. Who pays for those ads and funds our political leaders? The same companies who are making huge profits on the suffering of people - and I ask you: If our health care system is so great, why are we 17th in the world for infant mortality and 30th in the world for life expectancy?

PNHP

and the above is from a physician who...

left private practice because I spent hours doing paperwork for insurance companies, was on the phone trying to get tests paid for and had to change medications all the time because insurance would not pay for them. The amount of bureaucracy is nothing for patients with Medicare compared with private health insurance companies. Insurance companies have entire departments whose only function is to find ways to deny payment. Conversely, hospitals have entire departments trying to get paid from insurance companies - now that is a waste of precious resources. Nonmedical insurance company staff, not government, stand between the doctor and their patient’s care.


bottom line for many doctors is the same as the one quoted above...

I believe our health care system can be cured by taking the profit motive out of the system - like other countries do. This will make it affordable, cheaper and provide access for all. Imagine a country where you can get care without showing your insurance card first.



[edit on 9-8-2009 by desert]



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by desert
 


What does Obamas doctor say about the plan...




www.huffingtonpost.com...

The man Barack Obama consulted on medical matters for over two decades said on Tuesday that the president's vision for health care reform is bound for failure.

Dr. David Scheiner, a 70-year Chicago-based physician who treated Obama for more than 20 years, said he was disheartened by the health care legislation his former patient is championing, calling it piecemeal and ineffectual.

"I look at his program and I can't see how it's going to work," Scheiner told the Huffington Post. "He has no cost control. There would be no effective cost control in his program. The [Congressional Budget Office] said it's going be incredibly expensive ... and the thing that I really am worried about is, if it is the failure that I think it would be, then health reform will be set back a long, long time."

Scheiner, who prefers a more progressive approach to reform, was hesitant about trying to divine the president's motives, although he said he believed that "in his heart of hearts" Obama "may well like a single-payer program."

"His pragmatism is what is overwhelming him." Scheiner added: "I think he's afraid that he can't get anything through if he doesn't go through this incredibly compromised program."

Admitting that he was not a political practitioner, Scheiner said he felt compelled to speak out because of his unique relationship with the president and this critical moment in the health care debate. A champion of a single-payer health care system, Scheiner noted repeatedly that he came to the debate from the perspective of having dealt with the hassles and pitfalls of the current system. His speaking out is part of a larger effort, launched by Physicians for a National Health Program, to push Congress to consider single-payer as an alternative to current reform proposals.

As Scheiner sees it, all alternatives simply fall short. Keeping private insurers in the market, he warns, would simply maintain burdensome administrative costs. He argued further that the pharmaceutical industry is not being asked to make "any kind of significant sacrifices" in the current round of reform negotiations. As for a public health care option, Scheiner insists that the proposal remains vague and inadequate.

"First of all, they haven't really gone into great detail about the public option," he said. "How much is it going to cost, are they going to really undercut private health insurance by a considerable amount? Will there be any restriction that you can get for public option?"


One thing about Obamas doctor you can be sure of, these are his true feelings and not just pushing an ideology.

I can be reasonably certain that if he had a political axe to grind it would be in favor and not opposed.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by mhc_70
 


Excellent post, mhc!
To tell you the truth, I feel the way his doctor does. I am angry, but NOT for the same reasons as the town hall protesters are shouting and disrupting about. Those who would civilly discuss the matter, share their frustrations and anger over just what your article pointed out are being exposed to disruption tactics which do not allow for DISCUSSION.

Yes, there is anger...but two kinds of anger...

On one angry side, the vocal side being activated by groups whose interest is NOT wanting health care change, people are angry over the govt even TRYING to reform the health payment system. These people are getting the media play.

On the other angry side are those who are angry that the proposals so far seem to be weakening to not include single payer, public option, etc. THIS voice is being drowned out...tactically.

The disruptors play to the hands of the corporate interest, whether they realize this or not. Corporate (status quo) interest is drowning out the voices of those who want to see something radically different.

It is still a game of corporate interest masquerading as a friend of the citizen, on their side, versus citizen interest. Corporate interest has so far played on irrational fears (killing off the elderly), and now wants to include those angry about foundational fears. People fear govt control, but here is an example of corporate control of people.

In corporatism, the corporation cannot condone discussion it doesn't want. This is corporate censorship.



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