Palin: Obama's 'death panel' would decide Trig's care

reply to post by Eurisko2012


We used to laugh about how in the Military you would be prescribed motrin for anything short of losing a limb, but in reality, that is Government care.

reply to post by JayinAR

Just wanted to add for effect... anyone else realize that just the other day CNN and the likes carried a story enough so that I noticed it about how "Prominent Scientists Have Released a Study Showing that the World is Overpopulated?"

Technically the world is not over populated but it has an excess of population in the wrong geographical locations.

So you can better understand this dilema I am going to provide some background.

First the Powers that Be, it's a phrase that comes up a lot that a lot of people have conflicting oppinions about, whether they really exist, what extent their true power is politically and economically, who they really are, if in fact they exist, what their real goals and agendas are, and whether they are truly evil or a force for the betterment of the planet are all things that people on ATS and other places love to argue about.

To best understand the Powers that Be try to look at the Eart as a Terranium, a closed ecosystem that has to be managed to support the life inside of it.

As the industrial age began to take off a small group of wealthy and entrepenurial men and families realized that for populations to grow and sustain themselves it would require emerging technologies and natural resources.

There goal was to monopolize both by trying to control and own as much of the world's natural resources and as much of the emerging technologies in as few as hands as possible so they could enjoy a hedgemony over the world and control the logistical infrastructure that gets resources from their point of origins over the transportation network through the warehouses onto store shelves and into your home and to profit off of each step to the greatest extent that they could.

Let's say something is invented for the very first time that requires boxite for the very first time. The mission is to sit on the technology while you quietly go around the globe buying and securing all the known sources of boxite.

Now ideally where you have found boxite there are people living close by that can be hired or forced to mine it. That's step one getting it out of the ground. Step two is manufacturing the product and your next variable becomes are there enough people living close by to manufacture the product too. Does this population possess the skills to manufacture the product is your next question. How far away are the materials needed to build the manufacturing facility is your next question. Is there an existing transportation network to get those materials close to the mine to build a manufacturing facility. Is there skilled labor in the area that can actually build it. How long will it take what will be the cost, is it cheaper to put the manufacturing facility here, or is it cheaper to transport the raw material to another location where skilled labor exists and materials to build a manufacturing facility exist. If there aren't enough people in the locale you have no choice.

Now you have created employment opportunities in this local, the people are productive, their labor pays for their own keep. If you need a 100 workers and the local community has a 1,000 people that need jobs you have an excess of population here at this spot. The 100 workers with paychecks will end up causing a few of the other 900 to create small businesses of their own to sell products and services to earn part of their paychecks. Lets say farmers, resturaunts, and basic good retailers can employ another 200 people off of the circulating wealth you have created by giving the first 100 jobs. Now you have an excess population of 700 people. There are no other raw materials to employ them in mining. The farming operations provide enough food for the 300 people who are working and make money. The existing shops are all self sustaining off of the 300 people who work and make money.

The excess 700 people are now 'Worthless Eaters' they have no purpose and no function beyond living and breathing and taking up space.

There is tillable land to grow food for them, but they have no money to buy it.

The cost of creating more jobs for the 700 people is not cost effective, and counterproductive to your bottom line. You own the mine and have stock in most of the towns businesses to recoup some of your wages and everythign is self sustaining up to this point, you have billions even trillions of dollars at your disposal but there are no other industries or resources right here that earn you a worthwhile return on building or creating or financing them.

Some where else in the world there are 700 jobs available but these people don't speak that language, have no money to get there, and have families and roots here, and there are 700 people already where those jobs are who will eventually want them.

You have 700 hundred worthless eaters on your hands.

You in essence let them starve and live a hand to mouth existence because they really have no value to you.

Now back in 1976 Democratic President Jimmy Carter commissioned a report called Project 2000.

You can find both volumes in their entirety online in PDF Form. Jimmy Carter's Presidency was at the start of the Environmental Movement and like any good social democrat Carter wanted to have a detailed report of the real state of the world. How many people were out there around the globe, how many vital resources, how much tillable and farmed land, what kind of food and natural resource surplusses there were and where, and what kind of impact the growing human industrialized population was having on the eco-system.

It took two years to write and compile and the man who headed the project for Cyrus Vance who was given the task by Carter of coming up with it was so thoroughly depressed after reading and annalysing the conclusions he needed therapy for about a year!

The term 'Worthless Eater' was coined by Cyrus Vance and was first found in the project 2,000 reports.

The reports conclusion that the world was vastly overpopulated with 'wothless eaters' and by the year 2,000 it would reach epidemic proportions with hundreds upon hundreds of millions of people basically starving to death with no functional purpose in life.

Of course depopulation was the recomendation.

The Powers that Be basically own 99% of the worlds resources, technology and wealth and have it concentrated in few thousand hands.

What they do is try to manage it's flow in ways they consider are sensible and profitible and logical.

Technically the wealth and resources exist to feed and clothe and house every man woman and child on the planet, but the Powers that Be have deemed that where many of these people live are not cost effective to develop. So the people are left to starve. They serve no purpose to the elites, and the elites do not envision an eventual purpose for them other than dying as cost efficiently as possible.

Welcome to planet Earth!

Now sadly for us as Americans we were once a land rich in resources and pretty much still are but most of them are being kept on tap with the goal of saving them for last after exhausting the worthless eaters resources first.

We used to be a land of manufacturing but now no longer are as the Powers that Be have sought to mine and utilize resources in Asia and Latin America and to switch manufacturing there to maximize profits and reduce shipping time and costs of bringing raw materials to the factories, as well as to 'grow' and develop the local populations whose new found wealth will go right back into the powers that be pockets through basic household goods and some luxuries the powers that be also manufacture.

What this has created is a growing population of Worthless Eaters here in America.

By some estimates up to 28% percent of the population could be either unemployed or only partially employed or employed below self sustinance levels needing charitable or government assistance to eat.

Traditionally when the Powers that Be have excess population it is usually rectified through War. Germany wants to get rid of 3 million worthless eaters, France needs to get rid of 5 million, Britan 2 million, America 6 million and they set up the conditions and let the people go at it and profit monetarily off of the death and destruction and then the rebuilding.

However the Nuclear Age screwed that up. So while there is always a low intensity conflict going on somewhere like Iraq or Afghanistan to get rid of some of the worthless eaters, and a totalitarian regime in some place like North Korea to get rid of more, you eventually have to kill people another way.

Disease is always a good one, when World War I was called early after the goals on the ground were reached the Spanish Flu killed the 11 million more people they originally meant to get in the war.

Managing Health Care is the way to go, you can introduce diseases through preventative managed medicine easily, and you can profit off of it too by taxing people for the privelage.

What you will see in the next few years is a corresponding number of people equal to the unemployed the "worthless eaters' die through disease or war to bring our numbers back into self sustainable levels.

That is how the Powers that Be manage Slave Planet Earth, and you and I are slaves living on Slave Planet Earth, and of course the most enslaved person is the one who imagines they are free and that's why very skilled propoganda convinces most people they are free, so they are at their most productive and profitible for their Masters.

There is an excess of population though and personally I make a terrible slave, always have and always will, so I highly recommend being a rebellious slave!

Oh and to eat well, I am having a Rib Eye Steak with a Wine Demi Glaze sauce for dinner!

Because eating is fun

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Yes, as I said, the world isn't overpopulated at all. It is simply undermanaged.

There is plenty of room for growth in population and food, but it isn't in the best interest monetarily for our 'slave drivers' to change the infastructure enough to accomodate that growth.

Which is why the Science is rigged. An objective Scientist would say that in order to sustain our current rate of growth we need to consolidate our population, restructure our political system and move towards a society without money or standing. ... yadda yadda yadda... after that you start moving into a heavily communistic ideal where people are either farmers or performing tasks that provide the unit with what it needs to survive.

Point is we aren't overpopulated and that "report" was rubbish.

On the other side of the coin however, at what point in a system like that do you become a slave to normality?
I think the human mind is geared to strive for exploration and it would be counterproductive. We would become a society of automatrons much like we are now.

Alas, we are destined to struggle.

This is a slave planet alright.

PS - And I agree with the eating well. Just finished my grilled salmon atop fettucine seasoned with lemon, olive oil and parmesan. Good stuff.



[edit on 8-8-2009 by JayinAR]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto, is there more then one of you, I have been reading your informative and brilliant post all day long, man you are fast, dang, I'm just say'in.

You wrote a book today, I hope people are paying attention.

[edit on 093131p://bSaturday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I think it is a form of non-tax tax that is meant to show China that they are "good for the money" again.

I also think China has made it clear to them that they won't continue to purchase our debt unless this happens. "Secure your investment assets" is what was said. We are the investment assets. China needs to see that our productivity is costing the Government less.

China is molding US policy at this point.

China is a communist country.

The eugenics is just a logical extension from there.

China is the New World Order's darling child.

The American Oligarchs the Powers that Be transformed China into their ideal state.

The people have no G-d or religion to compete for their hearts and minds and conflict them. The State is everything, the Government is everything, and holds absolute totaltarian power of life and death in a highly productive society that can attend to most of it's own needs except one very important one...

Energy, the Powers that Be control the World's Oil Supply.

China like all States is hostage to keeping its infrastructure working and China like all States is dependent upon the Powers that Be for Oil.

America now functions as the Powers that Be premier military and police force.

We were not in Iraq for weapons of Mass Destruction or because we objected to Sadaam Hussein killing worthless eaters. We are in Iraq to secure the contracts and distribution of the world's 3rd largest oil reserves.

The American Military has a massive presence in Saudi Arabia thanks to the First Gulf War we tricked Sadaam into fighting, as well as the United Arab Emirates and Kuwaait. Israel keeps the pressure and war drums beating on Iran and as soon as we finish winding down operations in Iraq we will move on to Iran.

Just like the Democratic Party has a function to the Powers that Be (social engineering) and the Republican Party has a function to the Powers that Be (wealth generation and war mongering) each nation/state/ (farm) has a function to the powers that be.

The New World Order actually already exists it just doesn't exist openly, national pride and religion is still used to dupe people into fighting and eliminating each other, and forcing migrations of excess population, and securing resources.

China is as bought and paid for by the Powers that Be and is controlled by the Powers that Be as the U.S. or England, France, Germany or Russia is.

Ultimately the Powers that Be want a one world government to reduce costs by having duplicate management structures.

Most of what has happened in the world in the last hundred some odd years is elaborately staged.

Battles and wars are staged, political and economic crisis are staged, and the theatre is designed to fool you into going along with things not really in your own benefit by playing to your emotions, primarily fear and greed.

The more frightened you become of staged events the more willing you become for staged remedies.

9-11 Staged, the War in Iraq Staged, the Economic Crisis Staged, most everything is staged.

There is no independent China.

The Powers that Be controls the known World, we just don't really know the real world we live in.

Ultimately its really just about taxing our labors and wealth to the point that we have no real freedom because we have no money to go anywhere or do anything or to challenge anything.

Ultimately it's about teaching us to be happy living an existence were just basic sustinance is provided to conserve resources and maximize profits and power into a few controlling hands.

Ultimately it's about getting us to accept the need for a one world government, not breeding in excess and not carrying dead weight in the form of the elderly or disabled.

Ultimately it's about a few spolied demented rich kids playing with their Terranium called Planet Earth.

You got to hand it to them they are ambitious I just kept a salamander and a rock turtle and a plastic palm tree in mine!

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Proto, is there more then one of you, I have been reading your informative and brilliant post all day long, man you are fast, dang, I'm just say'in.

You wrote a book today, I hope people are paying attention.

[edit on 093131p://bSaturday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Thanks Storm Dancer, Mrs. Miller my vocational school typing teacher would be proud? 114 words a minute!

Things are really heating up out there on the streets, it sure has me concerned.

All I can do is share what I know and hope peace and love rules the day.

You sure do share a lot of great things too! You really care.

Thanks for being you!

Originally posted by tamusan
Sarah Palin just might be the main reason I voted for Osama. With that said, she just got my attention, and maybe I need to reevaluate my overall opinion of her. At one time I supported national healthcare. Lately, I am not so sure. The dumbest thing I may have done in my life is vote for Obama.

Here are Obama's own words to calm your fears:

“... part of what I think government can do effectively is to be an honest broker in assessing and evaluating treatment options ... .

... when I talk about the importance of using comparative-effectiveness studies as a way of reining in costs (as in eugenics?)

... it is an attempt to say to patients, you know what, we’ve looked at some objective studies out here, people who know about this stuff, concluding that the blue pill, which costs half as much as the red pill, is just as effective ... .

I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. ... And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. (as in the "death panel?")

"After the Great Recession"
New York Times Magazine, April 28, 2009 (published in print May 3, 2009) www.nytimes.com...


People need to read behind Obama's words, rather than listen to denials. Single-payer, third-party administration and cost containment (as opposed to preservation of life) are the real focus here.

deny ignorance

jw


[edit on 8-8-2009 by jdub297]

reply to post by jdub297

Here are Obama's own words to calm your fears

Part of the problem is that I no longer believe anything that comes out of his mouth. For that to change, he needs to stop promising one thing and delivering another.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It was destined to happen with China.
Their population combined with their authoritarian Governance is the breeding ground of unbelievable wealth. At this point, they can dictate anything they wish to the US as we struggle from here out to be considered even a lapdog of the folks behind the curtain.

The problem with sociopaths like these is that they actually delude themselves into believing their actions are for the betterment of man. They are the cause and the cure of the ailments plaguing us and it has always been this way.

It too will be cast assunder some day and replaced by something else equally as vile.

This is our lot.

reply to post by JayinAR

The problem with sociopaths like these is that they actually delude themselves into believing their actions are for the betterment of man.

The real problem could be that the sociopaths of yesteryear can't accept their new position at the feet of our new Chinese overlords. There is no room in the PRC for Rothchilds or western puppetmasters.

If the western PTB are to survive, they need to reign in costs and make our country(ies) more efficient. They also need to get a firm control over the people once again. How can a nation that let's it people think freely and have a say in what happens prevail against a totalitarian regime?

She;s only play acting, for heavens sakes.

Role playing is what they do in the day time and at the end of the day they call one another and laugh at us.

They all want the same thing for us. Death.

reply to post by tamusan


I don't think that the sociopaths have changed nationality.

They are the same then as they are now, even in family name.
But yeah, the Chinese pretty much run the show from here out.

"Death panel"? That comment ranks...ranks up there with the idea that allowing gay marriage would lead to man-horse unions. What? Are we sitting around a campfire concocting "scary but true" tales?

A young couple I know is receiving support from a govt program to help with therapy for their Down syndrome child, because their private insurance won't pay for it.

A young woman I know decided against abortion and went on govt assistance programs to help pay for child care, rent, and tuition assistance. Budget cuts did away with her help. I dunno, PT, maybe DENYING govt help would be better at population control.

"The only path to lower costs, she said, was less treatment." Uh, no. Weed out fraud to start with, whether on the part of doctor or patient. Trust but verify.

reply to post by desert


Apparently some folks aren't willing to make logical conclusions.

Look, nobody is saying that there is going to be a new title called "The Death Czar" (although it wouldn't surprise me)... what is being argued is that it would be more like "Healthcare Cost Effectiveness Czar".

Nothing as ominous sounding as a death panel, but basically the same thing.

You cut cost at the detriment of quality. Degradation of quality leads to death. Is it that difficult?

reply to post by JayinAR

I don't think that the sociopaths have changed nationality.

They are the same then as they are now, even in family name.
But yeah, the Chinese pretty much run the show from here out.

I wasn't saying that the sociopaths had changed nationality. I was saying that the old ones are starting to see a new and greater threat to their power looming on the horizon. One that does not need them and has a little more control over where the spinning wheel will stop when the game is played.

Originally posted by jtma508

But these claims --- death panels, eugenics, etc. --- are absolutely insane. What's wrong with you people? ...

But really people, have you personally read ANYTHING that supports these claims?

Why don't we start with the health care bill itself?

“End of Life” consultations are mandated by Section 1233 of the House Bill. They are to be an important source of income for Medicare doctors, as well as those "end of life" professionals to whom they refer their elderly patients.

A talk radio interview, fueled by Barack Obama's push for “Health Care Reform” and the House Bill that resulted from it, has sparked fear among senior citizens that the health-care bill moving through Congress will lead to end-of-life "rationing" and even "euthanasia."

Democratic strategists are "hesitant to give extra attention to the issue by refuting the claims, but they worry that it will further agitate already-skeptical seniors."

The proposal has been described as "guiding you in how to die," "an ORDER from the Government to end your life," promoting "death care" and, an attempt to "kill Granny."

The story began with a radio interview when Betsy McCaughey told former senator Fred D. Thompson that mandatory counseling sessions with Medicare beneficiaries would "tell them how to end their life sooner" and would teach the elderly how to "decline nutrition . . . and cut your life short."

“Talk Radio Frightens Seniors”
www.washingtonpost.com...

If Section 1233 is innocuous, why would "strategists" want to tip-toe around the subject? Perhaps because Section 1233 is not totally innocuous.

Section 1233 of the health-care bill would pay doctors to give Medicare patients end-of-life counseling every five years -- or sooner if the patient gets a terminal diagnosis; and, to even prepare the necessary legal documents right then and there, or provide referrals to the necessary professionals..

Section 1233
edlabor.house.gov...

Though not mandatory, as some have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren't quite "purely voluntary," as some democrats pushing the bill assert. To most people "purely voluntary" means "not unless the patient requests one."

Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive -- money -- to do so. That's an incentive to insist.

Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they're in the meeting, the bill permits "formulation" of a plug-pulling order right then and there.

Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would "place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign."

He’s either not being realistic, or he’s not being honest.

Even worse, Section 1233 dictates, at length, the content of the consultation. The doctor "shall" discuss "advanced care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to"; "an explanation of . . . living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses" (even though these are legal, not medical, instruments); and "a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families." The doctor "shall" explain that Medicare pays for hospice care (hint, hint).

This script is vague and subject to manipulation. What are "key questions"? Who belongs on "a list" of helpful "resources"? Jack Kevorkian?

Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life's end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. It may be good to have a doctor's perspective, but Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it.

On its own terms, the measure would have an interested party – the government -- recruit doctors to sell the elderly end of life measures and their associated providers, professions and organizations.

You don't have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.

Read it and weep.

Deny ignorance!

jw

Originally posted by desert
"Death panel"? That comment ranks...ranks up there with the idea that allowing gay marriage would lead to man-horse unions. What? Are we sitting around a campfire concocting "scary but true" tales?

A young couple I know is receiving support from a govt program to help with therapy for their Down syndrome child, because their private insurance won't pay for it.

A young woman I know decided against abortion and went on govt assistance programs to help pay for child care, rent, and tuition assistance. Budget cuts did away with her help. I dunno, PT, maybe DENYING govt help would be better at population control.

"The only path to lower costs, she said, was less treatment." Uh, no. Weed out fraud to start with, whether on the part of doctor or patient. Trust but verify.

Hey I saw a really funny video of a man horse union not too long ago...hint to horse lovers, have someone else hold the reigns!

Worked out great for the horse, the man not tooooo goood.

There are a lot of scary but true tales in the world, you should have seen that horse video!

The government does provide a lot of assistance programs already for the poor and indigent. Here in Florida no child can be denied Health Care but you do have to prove your income is below a certain level to qualify for State Sponsored Medicaide.

The system is rife with fraud you are 100% correct. We lead the nation here in Miami in Medicaire fraud. Some of it like a recent case where a consortium of independent AIDS clinic had been using the same street people none of which had AIDS but the clinics provided postive AIDS tests for them to get Medicaire Cards.

Once they had the Cards most of the street people of which there were about 60 would go to one to four clinics a day for a costly IV Aids treatment that is billable to Medicaire at 2,000.00 plus dollars a pop.

The clinics wouldn't actually give the street people the treatment since they didn't have AIDS they would just bill the Government for the Treatment.

The Clinics would pay the Street People 100.00 dollars cash for each time they came to pretend to take the treatment. Some of them recieved treatments up to 40 times a month at up to 18 different clinics and the treatment only needs to be adminstered 1 time a month!

The hysterical part for those who can laugh at this is that the treatment became outdated 4 years ago in favor of less costly more effective oral treatments.

The clinics in Miami were the only ones in the whole nation who were still giving this treatment and Medicaire went right on paying them 2,000.00 dollars a pop for 4 straight years before a GAO audit flagged that the same Medicaire patient numbers kept coming up again and again at multiple clinics.

Total cost of the theft...2 billion dollars, that's right 2,000,000,000.00 over 4 years.

Now you really want the government running healthcare for everyone?

Kaching! I see a few new sky scrapers on the horizon for Miami's skyline!

South Florida has a great Public Health Trust, the State does a pretty good job of making sure no one is denied criticial care.

The sensible thing to do would for the Government to first get a handle on Medicare and Medicaide and clean up the rampant fraud in the system and prove they can manage their existing health system first.

The government is corrupt and most government employees inneficient and poorly managed and highly protected by their unions.

The health care system is out of control, my two eldest boys were diagnosed with attention deficit disorder and bi-polar disease earlier this year...

My own diagnosis...something called Adolesence.

Turns out after a month of dealing with the stigma of visiting the doctors and being told to take medicine that the boys figured out it was adolesence too, stopped taking the pills and go to the doctor, got their grades up and temper tantrums under control.

The diagnosis couldn't have been more incorrect, but they absolutely will not miss an opportunity to hook people on drugs and bring them into a Managed Health World.

Don't let your lover catch you watching that horse video!

Peace!

[edit on 8/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by HunkaHunka

She always uses libelous hyperbole to attack her political opponents.

You have got to be kidding! After all the garbage the left spewed about her, during and after the campaign, you're calling her out on attacking them? That is the most ridiculous thing I've read here in a long time.

To the OP: This is exactly what has many Americans up in arms. No one knows what to expect, but, fear the worst. With so many differing versions of the "proposed" bill being presented, I can only assume it is an intentional attempt to confuse the sheeple. The magicians' technique of misdirection.

reply to post by WTFover

To the OP: This is exactly what has many Americans up in arms. No one knows what to expect, but, fear the worst. With so many differing versions of the "proposed" bill being presented, I can only assume it is an intentional attempt to confuse the sheeple. The magicians' technique of misdirection.

It's a classic shell game and bait and switch and at this point really just a temperature reading to see if they can get away with spewing out another 1,000 page bill, the night before the vote, and get the Lawmakers to vote on it before they can read it and the people can read it.

Our government sure does not have a very high estimation of our deductive and reasoning capabilities...

By the way, one more thing...that's really got me wondering Sir...you see the other day I was talking to Mrs. Columbo about health care reform and she mentioned your cigars...

reply to post by WTFover

This is exactly what has many Americans up in arms.

Call me a dreamer but I don't think the misdirection over this bill is what has us up in arms.

I think it started with our Representatives' refusal to listen to our objections against Bush's initial bailouts. I mean, they listened, but only because they didn't think they had anything to gain for themselves - once the pork was brought in they changed their tune and to the dismay of everyone voted it in in a heartbeat.
Then it continued to build when they started to realize that Obama was NOT going to end the war in Iraq.
Continued to build even moreso when Obama began to push more bailout legislation around and is begining to boil now that they see he is now striking them at the heartstrings with this current gutter-trash piece of foolery [the healthcare proposal].

This is a culmination of frustration, not an awakening.