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Palin: Obama's 'death panel' would decide Trig's care

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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Wow, wow and wow. This is crazy. I can't believe that there are so many people that want SO badly for Obama to fail that they will glom-on to anty outlandish claim the GOP makes. Firsth there were the Tea Parties. And when that plan fizzled-out they came right out and said that they would use the healthcare reform issue to 'do-in' Obama. They're using the same tactics they used with the Tea Parties.

But these claims --- death panels, eugenics, etc. --- are absolutely insane. What's wrong with you people? Are you that desperate to bring down the current administration? At any cost?

This is fear-mongering at its worst. Which, I suppose, shouldn't surprise anyone given the previous 8yrs. But really people, have you personally read ANYTHING that supports these claims?

People need to start thinking for themselves. This parroting of wholly unsubstantiated GOP drivel is demeaning to the community here and is about as far away from 'denying ignorance' as one can get.




posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by metamagic
 


That's the problem though friend there is no proposed Bill there is a public relations campaign being badly botched to garner public support for rushing through a yet to be fully defined Bill.

Palin could be just grandstanding for political points.

Palin could be just paranoid as a mother who is cautious and distrusting of how and where and who treats her child.

Palin could be talking just to see if someone is listening.

Or Palin might actually know something through inside information just like people often get inside information in the stock market that certain things are being talked about on the Hill or in the White House.

Who is to say.

To me this whole debate right now is about whether a real debate can actually happen or if the government just intends to ram through a bill absent any debate...

Because there really is no finalized votable Bill to debate.

Objections are always a request for more information. More information is not simply saying your objection is not valid...more information is saying here are the provisions spelled out in black in white of what will really happen and how it will be done, and here is the provision spelled out in black and white of how such and such will never be allowed to happen.

Of course you have to have a real Bill to have a real debate and there is no real Bill yet to debate.

This whole thing is just one huge rectal thermometer to see if people will let another piece of sweeping legislation get rushed through unchallenged, unread, undisected and without being first fully understood by the majority of the people.

Ask any artist they will tell you it takes time to craft a Masterpiece and neither the Administration or the Congress wants to take time to forge a Masterpiece and present it in a Masterful way that overcomes peoples objections.

There poor planning, incompetence, inneptitude and lack of due dilligence is what is leading to so many objections and in light of that I really do have to question anyone's intelligence who wouldn't be questioning the motives and the goals at this point.

This is people's health and life and death involved here, and no attempt at Socialized Health has ever gotten off of the ground in the past for that same reason.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Right now, I am all about anyone who challenges Obama and co. It's not that I want to see Obama fail, I want to see Obama do what is in everyones best interest. Not just my best interest, not just your best interest, and not just his best interest. So far, all I see is Obama taking the situation that Bush created and making it exponentially worse. I do not like the direction that Obama is taking this country. Not one bit. I am starting to think that I would have been better off marrying the mother of my second child, and moving to her country, China!



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by tamusan
 

and

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Ok, so what you are basically saying is that even though you think SP is pretty nutty, you believe she is right saying that Obama has death panels in mind only because you haven't seen the bill?


So you believe anything because you have no proof otherwise? No matter how ludicrous it may sound at first glance?

I can understand your desire to view a plan, have transparency etc. I'm with you there.

But to venerate an idiot like SP just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't seem like a way that will actually be productive.

Folks like me would definitely support and echo the case for transparency... but that doesn't make some "maverick" from Alaska spouting absurdities an authority.



Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire



[edit on 8-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]


Hunka friend, you like I like everyone else is the sum total of your life's experiences that form your persectives and thoughts.

Based on my real life experiences, my first hand interactions with people of power and influence, my own interactions with the government, and my own study of history and human behavior I don't consider Palin's concerns to by 'nutty' when it comes to a 'Death Panell'.

If you understood better the intellectual appeal to notable luminaries including some who are very influential in Government and quasi/psuedo Government Agencies aka/Shadow Government of Eugenics and Euthenasia and that is has been practiced previously in pre-World War II America and the reasearch in Nazi Germany on the subject was financed in large part by American Luminaries...

It would be 'nutty' to not be concerned.

You live in a different world though than I do where you imagine things like that happen in isolated vacums at random periods of time carried out by people who just happen to have been inflicted with some evil that we are all always vigilant to detect and stop.

The reality is many people choose not to be vigilant, many people choose to expose themselves to chance and circumstance with out forethought or caution and those are typically the people that History has proven end up sterilized, experimented on or murdered.

The kind of thinking inherent in the Powers that Be is foreign to you. Because you can not think in those terms and want not to think in those terms you really do believe anyone who would is an isolated annomily who would be quickly detected rooted out and exposed...

That though is precisely what 'nutty' people like Palin and 'I' are trying to do in defeating the Health Care Bill is to root out and expose so it can't happen.

Not because we trust blindly that it can't or won't happen or that someone else will prevent it, but because we are prepared to speak and act to make sure it doesn't happen.

You call that 'nutty' I call that 'wise'.

Have you ever been to the Bohemian Grove Hunka? I have. Do you know anyone with that kind of wealth and power? I do.

I can tell you honestly that is what the Government which is controlled by such people would find attractive in Socialized Health Care...I know this because such people have long told me it's an ongoing goal.

I can tell you that in there world of a world they really do manage by providing the logistics and resources for life as you know it to everyone including you and I that they consider Eugenics and Euthenasia as not being evil but simply sound management to divest themselves of the burden of a class of 'worthless eaters'.

Now that's the world you want to pretend doesn't exist, because you have never been exposed to it first hand in a way where you could allow yourself to accept the disturbing truth of it.

It's a world you likely will never see or be given entry to or proof of because you aren't a critical thinker.

Critical thinkers are in fact in favor of such things as Eugenics and Euthenasia and Palin knows some of these people, because 'nutty' or not, these people are in fact responsible for her political career.

The honest truth is if elected as President Sarah Palin would help herself to carry out and further Eugenics and Euthenasia programs and do so without batting an eye.

She can make the accusation easily and readily because she actually knows that such plans exist, have long existed and are a top priority to the Shadow Government and the Powers that Be and she would never be in the Political Position she is in and neither would Obama if they weren't down with the program.

So why then would she throw that out there and expose it?

So people who find the thought so repugnant and so abhorent such as yourself that you can't even imagine it being done, can convince yourself and others it never will be done, and end up going along with it and inviting it in that fashion.

A lot of people in politics come across as 'nutty' and 'goofballs' and that is to disarm you and give you a false sense of supiority to where you don't take the very real things they are saying credibly.

That's the real world I live in, and the real world you live in, wants to believe nothing is real that doesn't have a corresponding URL.

It's pretty easy to shape your reality for you, because all you want to have to do is shape it by pushing a button where your reality is then fed to you.

You ignore these things at your own risk. Millions of people in Nazi Europe chose to ignore things at their own risk too.

There were 28 states in the United States up until World War II that had Eugenics Laws where forced sterilization was carried out on whole families because of birth defects in the family or poor grades or attendence at public school.

Don't think it can't happen here? Guess again.

Don't think it can't happen again? No offence but with guys like you on the job there is no way it won't happen again!

You don't actually see the frustration and base hatreds and prejudices that unbalance your mind and your thinking because you are too wound up in them. They have been fed to you, you have swallowed them, they effect your thinking, your ego has taken over, and you simply want to be right for the sake of you being right.

So did lots of other people who had numbers tatooed on their arms, courtesty of IBM to be adminstered through the first punch card computers courtesy of IBM who developed them right here in America for the Nazi Government to conduct experiments in Eugenics and Euthenasia efficiently.

Computers sure have come a long way then, sadly people's critical thinking hasn't.

Loose the vitirol and try looking at all sides with a clear mind and stop using your own morals as a guide stick at how you imagine the rest of the world should or does operate and you can be a critical thinker too.

Until then, no offense, but you really are just a windup doll.

I am not, I have no allegiance to any G-d or Government, my mind isn't for rent.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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Trig has got Down's Syndrome, right ?

How little must Mrs Palin think of the rest of the world if she honestly considers we kill off Down's Syndrome children through socialised medicine. We don't have "Death Panels" to kill off such children ; I've never heard anything so outrageous. What a vile, ignorant fool of a woman she really is.

A good starting point for how we care for Down's children in the UK ... land of the National Health Service ... might be the Down's Syndrome Association.

Down's Syndrome Association / United Kingdom



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Ulala
Trig has got Down's Syndrome, right ?

How little must Mrs Palin think of the rest of the world if she honestly considers we kill off Down's Syndrome children through socialised medicine. We don't have "Death Panels" to kill off such children ; I've never heard anything so outrageous. What a vile, ignorant fool of a woman she really is.

A good starting point for how we care for Down's children in the UK ... land of the National Health Service ... might be the Down's Syndrome Association.

Down's Syndrome Association / United Kingdom


en.wikipedia.org...

It happened once already, without the government being involved in healthcare. Once they have their foot in the door, what's to stop it from happening again, on a much larger scale?



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by Highground
 


That is correct there is nothing to stop the government from doing such a thing.

There is no reason why the government wouldn't do such a thing.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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1st let me say that Palin hit the nail on the head.
She is awesome!!


Originally posted by Solomons
I think america should have a national healthcare system.

Since you don't live in America, what you think is irrelevant.


At least here in the uk it is run by managers who understand the healthcare system more than a politician ever could.

This is not a good thing either since you end up with a system bloated with managers and administrators which is equal to the 3rd largest employer in the world.

NHS is world's biggest employer after Indian rail and Chinese Army



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Forgive me.

But the electoral benefits of killing disabled children aren't immediately discernible.

Why would the US Government pursue such a policy ?



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Ulala
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Forgive me.

But the electoral benefits of killing disabled children aren't immediately discernible.

Why would the US Government pursue such a policy ?


For the same reason Nazi Germany pursued such a policy, to divest itself of 'worthless eaters'.

Most dictators are initially elected, after entrenched in power real elections cease to exist.

Now if we have a President who sends Union Thugs to bash heads at Town Hall Meetings where people are demonstrating against one of his plans...how long do you think it takes for the next step to happen...what do you imagine the next step is?

America is in big trouble at the moment, and it's not going to go away pretending that it isn't.

The world itself is in big trouble at the moment, and it's not going to go away pretending that it isn't.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Ulala
Why would the US Government pursue such a policy ?

The same reason why they want to kill the elderly.

Cost!!

The only way Obama's healthcare plan can work without going bankrupt in a few years like medicare and medicaid is to ration care. It is NOT cost effective according to the government to give the elderly the care they deserve like hip replacements and heart valves because in their eyes the elderly will not live long enough to justify the costs involved.

The same is for the very young with major diseases especially the one's where they will need care for the rest of their life. It's just not cost effective.

Hell, Ovomit said in his own words just as much when asked about it.



Let's not also forget what is currently in the bill. The elderly will have to see a government counselor every 5 years. This is to try and convince them to accept death and try not to prolong it through medicine, again because of costs. Pathetic!



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
Since you don't live in America, what you think is irrelevant.


His opinions and views are as relevant as yours are.

People come here to share their opinions from all over the world on a plethora of subjects.

This is a discussion board, remember?

So please, show some courtesy towards your fellow posters.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Since you don't live in America, what you think is irrelevant.


His opinions and views are as relevant as yours are.

People come here to share their opinions from all over the world on a plethora of subjects.

This is a discussion board, remember?

So please, show some courtesy towards your fellow posters.



Well your oppinion matters because you are from England, Solomon is from Scottland though!

Just kidding.

Solomon is a great poster and most of us love hearing from people all over the world.

Please tell the Queen I am not causing any problems



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by neformore
His opinions and views are as relevant as yours are.

People come here to share their opinions from all over the world on a plethora of subjects.

Come on, it's quite clear that I did not mean his opinion is not relevant here on ATS.
Of course he is allowed to share his thoughts. Geesh!

Why is everyone so sensitive?

To make it clear his opinion is irrelevant to the outcome of healthcare in America since he cannot vote and cannot attend town meetings.

His opinion is also irrelevant to me personally for the same reason as stated above. ME, MYSELF and I don't care what his opinion his personally.

[edit on 8/8/2009 by WhatTheory]



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





I think to that end they are telling the truth that they need to get in to health care because they know it's going to be political suicide to raise taxes in the immediate wake of the bailouts while unemployment is still high, inflation is creeping up, and the economy on main street continues to detoriate.


And possibly why they say they need to do it quickly lest it ruin the economy. Maybe they are counting on this? Afterall, people aren't buying our debt anylonger and they think that this system will show China that they have a new steady flow of cash. Taken directly from the pocket of their own citizens.

When the Government made it manditory to carry car insurance the rates went up 60% across the board. This will be no different, except that increase will come by way of hidden taxes.

"This next tax will not be treated as if it were a tax" < that is in the literature as it stands now.
That's right, it is an unappropriated tax... ON TOP of the outright taxes that are going to fund it.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 


Exactly Jay and when you think about it, it's the thing that makes the most sense...why push through massive health care reform now?

Why in such a hurry, why when the nation is already heavily in debt and woefully trying to keep inflation from spiraling because of the creation of a huge pool of currency given to the banks that you are desperately trying to keep out of circulation and from being monetized?

Reason states, it will cost money and we have no money.

Therefore if they are this keen to do it in can only really mean one of two or both things.

They want to use it as a way to raise revenue through a form of a non-Tax TAX, and or they want to start using Eugenics and Euthenasia and Mind control utilizing pharmacuticals and government mandated managed health care where you have to go to the doctor sick or not every so often so they can 'nip' potentially debilitating and expensive illnesses in the bud before they become debilitating and expensive and diagnose something else in the process to get you on a pharmacutical regimen.

They are up to something.

There are no free lunches in life...especially from a Government that runs something called the IRS!



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 





Ok, so what you are basically saying is that even though you think SP is pretty nutty, you believe she is right saying that Obama has death panels in mind only because you haven't seen the bill?


I think what is being said by those against this thing are saying that those things will be logical extensions of a foolish idea.

The way I see it is that the Government is actually banking on this reform. This is why Obama has stated several times now that the economy will fail if this doesn't go through.

Which means they WILL try to undercut the private sector. And this is why it is written in that the Government may not be sued for price fixing.

Once the Private sector is out of the way they WILL continue to tax appropriately to make sure they are still making profit. Which means that the apparent cost through tax will go up to you and I indefinately.

This program will be but one way to tax the people without them knowing they are being taxed.

The "death panels" and the like are an extension of the fact that their entire profit margin will be based on how much of the care they can cut cost on.

"You are given only a 2% chance of survival... Sorry, but we can't pump another 200,000 into the system for such a meaningless pursuit."

You may never hear those exact words, but mark my words this is how it will work.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 






Critical thinkers are in fact in favor of such things as Eugenics and Euthenasia and Palin knows some of these people, because 'nutty' or not, these people are in fact responsible for her political career.


Just wanted to add for effect... anyone else realize that just the other day CNN and the likes carried a story enough so that I noticed it about how "Prominent Scientists Have Released a Study Showing that the World is Overpopulated?"

I did. Just on the heels of this mess.

But we all know our Science is now heavily politicized.
And man, once again your post is spot-on.

It isn't that the Earth is overpopulated, it is that if we were to simply restructure our infastructure, from the ground up, this Earth would easily accomodate a population 5X wht it currently is. But that isn't in the interest of the money-makers.

And is precisely why that "study" isn't scientific at all and is just the ultimate authority arm of an evil Government... Science!

"But scientists say that we are causing global warming! We need to tax you."

"Scientists say that we are overpopulated! What's wrong with sterilization?"

People need to get with the program. I can't believe they fall for this crap.


[edit on 8-8-2009 by JayinAR]



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I think it is a form of non-tax tax that is meant to show China that they are "good for the money" again.

I also think China has made it clear to them that they won't continue to purchase our debt unless this happens. "Secure your investment assets" is what was said. We are the investment assets. China needs to see that our productivity is costing the Government less.

China is molding US policy at this point.

China is a communist country.

The eugenics is just a logical extension from there.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


If passed I can see the Obama Death Panel lining up old people.
Stand before us.
Ok, the door to the left means life / a doctor will see you.
The door to the right means death.
Go home, take your pain pill and wait for death.





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