It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Helicopter and Small Plane Collide Over Hudson River

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 01:13 PM
link   

Helicopter and Small Plane Collide Over Hudson River


www.nytimes.com

It was not immediately clear how many people were on board the aircraft, but a Fire Department official said it appeared that at least one person had been, “removed from the water,” and taken ashore.

“It was in the vicinity of West 14th Street,” said Paul J. Browne, a the Police Department’s chief spokesman said.

Officials said it did not initially appear that either the plane or the helicopter belonged to a government agency.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 01:13 PM
link   
This is just breaking now.
Is it just me, or wouldn't you have thought that two aircraft, especially in this area would keep a safe distance? Especially, with a helicopter, and a plane....

It just mentions "One person being removed from the water" -- but it doesn't specify if they were alive/dead/injured. Anyone have any more info on this?

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 01:14 PM
link   
I was just about to post this


What's going on in that area that has no claimed 2 crashes that land in the river?



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 01:23 PM
link   
I was gonna post this over 30 minutes ago because i didn't see a thread on here but i was scared that i was just not seeing it. It is odd that this crash occurred in the exact same spot as Sully's plane. Maybe there is a new USO base in place there.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 01:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I was just about to post this


What's going on in that area that has no claimed 2 crashes that land in the river?


Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. I know it is a fairly well trafficked area.. But still - you would think there would alot more precautions. But, I think it is too early to speculate, as we don't know if a pilot in either aircraft may have been experiencing some sort of physical or mechanical difficulties.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 02:14 PM
link   
mayor bloomberg is doing his news conference and started to say "this is the largest air crash to result in death in the new york area in modern day". he then quickly revised his words. hahahahhahahhaaa i knew they were holograms 8 years ago!!



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 02:32 PM
link   
Sully ditching the commercial airliner in the Hudson back in January had a happy ending with no loss of life. Both aircraft apparently had fatalities in this case. Is the media going to hype this story?



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 03:43 PM
link   
I was just watching the news and the news anchor stated that they were flying at low altitude and all they had to do was keep an eye out for other small air crafts.

They also stated that any one surviving the crash is almost impossible and they have recovered two dead bodies and have seem more in the wreckage.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 04:45 PM
link   
The media reported that the plane involved was a 1978 Piper Saratoga. That is the exact same model JFK Jr crashed on July 16 1999. Lauren Bessette the investment banker died in that crash along with Caroline and John.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 04:53 PM
link   
Am I right in thinking that it is the planes responsibility to stay well clear of the helicopter? It's like one of those standard rules of the sky I think.

So that would indicate the plane was at fault, probably looking everywhere but where they were going - sightseeing.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:15 PM
link   
They believe all nine people to be dead. The helicopter had five Italian tourists and the pilot aboard. The plane had three people aboard, one was a child. The helicopter was from Liberty tours, they've had a couple of close calls before.


Authorities believe all nine people aboard the two aircraft were killed.



Two bodies were recovered in the water, one floating free and one in the wreckage, and other bodies were spotted in the debris in the river, the mayor said. The crash victims included five Italian tourists and a pilot on the helicopter and the three people on the plane, including a child, Bloomberg said.



Two years ago, a Liberty helicopter fell 500 feet from the sky during a sightseeing trip. The pilot was credited with safely landing the chopper in the Hudson and helping evacuate her seven passengers



In 1997, a rotor on one of its sightseeing helicopters clipped a Manhattan building, forcing an emergency landing. No one was hurt.



The accident happened in a busy general aviation corridor over the river that is often filled with sightseeing craft on nice days.


Another pilot tried to warn the helicopter about the plane, but it was too late.....


Another helicopter pilot on the ground at the heliport for Liberty Tours, which operated the doomed sightseeing craft, saw the plane approaching the helicopter and tried to radio an alert to the pilots, police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said. The warning wasn't heard or didn't happen in time.



The plane, a Piper PA-32, was registered to LCA Partnership in Fort Washington, Pa. The company's officials couldn't immediately be identified. The helicopter was a Eurocopter AS 350 owned by Liberty Tours, a sightseeing and charter company. It was struck by the plane shortly after lifting off from a heliport on Manhattan's West side.



Witnesses described seeing a low-flying plane smashing into the helicopter, and then wreckage scattering. One of the plane's wings was severed by the impact.


Maybe the plane was flying too low.


Edit because i forgot link....

news.yahoo.com...

[edit on 8/8/2009 by chise61]



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 06:35 PM
link   
reply to post by chise61
 


I just looked up the NYC area TCA chart (well, technically it's changed to "Class B" airspace, but I'm nostalgic).

Anyway, the Hudson and the East River are considered Class B airspace 'exclusion zones', there is a note on the chart advising the proper frequency to announce and self-manage (123.05) along with the advisory of high-density traffic, including helicopters.

If he (the Piper) took off from Teterboro to the South (prevailing winds right now favor that runway arrangement) and made a left turn up the Hudson, he would skirt right between the two Control Zones, TEB and LaGuardia, and not have to talk to any controllers. However, having left TEB, he may have still been on the Tower frequency, NOT on the common air-to-air....pure speculation, at this point.

edit: Based on the Chart, that 'exclusion' area requires VFR traffic to remain no higher than 1,100 MSL. FAA regs require at least 1,000' above the ground, and obstructions along your route. This is a tragic accident, hard to assign fault yet, too soon to tell. "See and Be Seen" is the rule in uncontrolled VFR flying.

I wouldn't be surprised if the FAA doesn't clamp down, this time. Chopper Tour companies may have some clout, though, to keep operating. Compromise could be a helicopter exemption, but we'll see.....

[edit on 8 August 2009 by weedwhacker]



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 07:26 PM
link   
reply to post by weedwhacker
 




Anyway, the Hudson and the East River are considered Class B airspace 'exclusion zones',



So does that mean that ATC would not be involved in the flight of these two aircrafts and they were responsible to watch their own airspace ?

It could have been that no one was at fault and it was just an unavoidable accident.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 07:34 PM
link   
reply to post by chise61
 


Answer, yes. The tour helos do not have to talk to any ATC, and they also are excluded from the 1000' AGL requirement I mentioned, that applies to fixed-wing airplanes.

Mid-air collisions happen more often than you may realize, since unless near a major metropolitan area, they usually don't make National News headlines.

There are also a busload of near misses (that's the term, though kind of oxymoron, that --- maybe best understood as "near collisons"?)

Again, the pilots familiar with transiting that area should know about the air-to-air common frequency (each River has a diffferent freq.)

BUT, having just taken off from TEB, the Piper pilot may not have switched yet, off of the Tower frequency. THAT news will come out, soon. IF the media know how to report it properly, that is.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:22 PM
link   
How does something like that even happen?

I mean were talking about the air here, where there is ALOT of space to say the least.

And aren't helicopters suppose to be extremely maneuverable?

I dunno, it just seems odd that a plane, and a helicopter would both be bearing down on each other and not see themselves coming.

~Keeper



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:39 PM
link   
What a terrible reminder of our limitations and mortality this tragedy is.

You know people always say "why do ufos wreck?" well i have a better question, why do we wreck?

I bet no matter how advanced in technology we get, accidents will still happen because no body is perfect.

Flying will always be dangerous even in the distant future, as is driving a car or walking is equally as unpredictable and dangerous.

We will always face one major obstacle, no one can know where everything is around them at all times and plan ahead of time.

Although there is a unpredictability about the future, we can always rest assured that the predicament is unpredictable.

No matter how advanced even aliens are, wrecks like this are an inevitability.

But it never stopped them or us from flying.


You could die walking anyways, flying is a better way to die.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:44 PM
link   
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


You know, the really odd thing (and this delves more into philosophy, but your post triggered this thought), is how it seems so random. Such a very small difference in timing makes all the difference in the outcomes of events.

The helicopter --- if the passengers/tourists had had a few extra minutes adjusting their seatbelts, or if they had arrived at the tour operator a few minutes later...a zillion things. OR, the people in the Piper...an extra bathroom break, just before leaving, for instance. Waiting for traffic, any number of things, the timing would have been different, and maybe no accident....



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
How does something like that even happen?

I mean were talking about the air here, where there is ALOT of space to say the least.

And aren't helicopters suppose to be extremely maneuverable?

I dunno, it just seems odd that a plane, and a helicopter would both be bearing down on each other and not see themselves coming.


This is exactly what skeptics use as an argument against "ufo crashes".

Just switch the word "helicopters" or "planes" with "spaceships".

The 2 main reasons this will always happen are,
1) No one is immortal
2) No one is omniscient

And no amount of technology will remedy these two glaring limitations.



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:50 PM
link   
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I wasn't saying it was a UFO or that it's even conspiracy related. I'm just trying to figure out how something like that happens.

Alright human error comes into play, we aren't perfect.

But the ammount of space those two pilots had to work with was immense. It's not like they were in a one way tunnel and both went through at opposite ends now is it?

~Keeper



posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 08:55 PM
link   
It's called a midair collision. You know, the skies may look like they are unlimited, but they're not. Why is this story on a conspiracy site?



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join