I blame no politicians for today's problems in the US.

People frequently blame congress, Bush, and Obama for our problems. Yet the average person seems to spend about five minutes a year thinking about politics... and about 15 to 30 seconds a year determining who to vote for or less if they are one of those straight-party-line voters. Yet these ignorant people think they are doing something good by voting. No, them voting is a gross insult to democracy and frankly I'm sick of it.

Congress have only been doing what individuals have been doing. Individuals have been taking ridiculously large loans, and then when they are in trouble, they patch up their problems with an even larger loan. Well, congress is just acting the same way as the population of the US has acted. And its these individuals who go to the polls to demand free stuff at the expense of future generations and they really don't seem give a damn.

I don't really think those people should be voting, and I'm most definitely ready for a big change in the way elections work. I think there should be at least three tests:

1) An IQ test. If you can't score above average, then we really don't need your vote. Stupid people will vote for a stupid choice. There are 300 million Americans and frankly about 30 million of them participating would be plenty enough for a democracy to work. At the moment about that many vote but actually are just pretending to participate and they have no clue what they are voting for. Maybe 100,000 Americans genuinely participate in our democracy at the moment, so the 30 million figure would be a thousand+ percent improvement.

Maybe those with the better IQ's will know that if congress votes to give rich bankers 2 trillion of everyone else's money because "we have to do something so we have to the rich people a bunch of money and hope for the best", the next step is to kick out congress instead of re-electing them every time without failure. Who knows.

2) A candidate fact test. If you don't know what your candidate's position is on any issue whatsoever like half of today's voters, then you are just screwing up democracy by going to the polls. If you are going to vote for someone then you had better know their position on at least three issues. In fact you should have to learn at least ten of a candidate's positions to have the right to vote for a candidate.

3) Essay test. Name your top five issues. Now, explain you positions on those issues. This will take a long time and that is most of the point. Aside from people actually having to think about what they are voting for, people will have to spend about an hour taking a test. Now you have a system where you really have to actually care about the issues before you vote because if you are one of those lazies who base their decisions on TV commercials, you are definitely too lazy to spend an hour writing an essay at your local polling place.

At the moment democracy is not working, and in my mind that there is only one specific people group at fault: the voters. The congress are doing just what the big corporations tell them to and voters love it proven by them re-electing pretty much all of congress. Maybe we can improve democracy by kicking out these false "patriots" who just vote for whoever their buddy told them to vote for. "Candidate Jones is a great guy... vote for him." "Well if you say so then it must be true... I'll vote for candidate Jones". How ridiculous! It should be out of the question to do that because its a farce vote. Yet I see it happen all the time.

I think democracy is good but it we need to limit who is in charge to the people who actually have a mental capacity to participate and are actually willing to participate instead of just pretending to.

Don't get me wrong. I love Americans because I think we value freedom more than other people in the world do. But many of us are simply to stupid to vote and are just screwing things up. There is no good reason why congress was re-elected last fall.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by truthquest]

reply to post by truthquest

You make a lot of insults in your post.

I think you need to read this.

Community Reinvestment Act 1995 modification lead to lax lending

More of the same

And yet even more of the same

Once you read these you will realize that the democrats do not
always tell the whole story, and the republicans were also to
blame for not fixing the crap when they had majority.

I don't like either party, and like wall street I will blame bad management,
and I do not think they should be rewarded for "sucking".

Them buying 8 new jets for $550 million in the middle of a
recession speaks volumes when they could easily fly coach
or if they feel threatened by the unwashed lesser lemmings
they can fly MAC flights provided by the military which they
have done in the past.

The one glimmer of hope I saw when pelosi stopped the
Michael Jackson bill.

I still can't believe she had to stop it.

Surreal.

Originally posted by truthquest
1) An IQ test. If you can't score above average, then we really don't need your vote. Stupid people will vote for a stupid choice. There are 300 million Americans and frankly about 30 million of them participating would be plenty enough for a democracy to work. At the moment about that many vote but actually are just pretending to participate and they have no clue what they are voting for. Maybe 100,000 Americans genuinely participate in our democracy at the moment, so the 30 million figure would be a thousand+ percent improvement.

--First, the IQ test is an unaccurate measure of intelligence. Give an IQ test to a man who knows how to hunt, trap, and survive in the wild and he would fail. But he is still intelligent, right?

-- The whole point of a democracy is to grant every citizen equal right to have a say in the workings of the government. If that were taken away, there'd be riots. Good luck.

Originally posted by truthquest
Maybe those with the better IQ's will know that if congress votes to give rich bankers 2 trillion of everyone else's money because "we have to do something so we have to the rich people a bunch of money and hope for the best", the next step is to kick out congress instead of re-electing them every time without failure. Who knows.

-- I bet those with better IQ's are either the bankers themselves or their "influenced" people.

Originally posted by truthquest
2) A candidate fact test. If you don't know what your candidate's position is on any issue whatsoever like half of today's voters, then you are just screwing up democracy by going to the polls. If you are going to vote for someone then you damned well better know their position on at least three issues. In fact you should have to learn at least ten of a candidate's positions to have the right to vote for a candidate.

-- I agree with this one. Too many people vote based on how often their name appears on the news.

Originally posted by truthquest
3) Essay test. Namer you top five issues. Now, explain you positions on those issues. This will take a long time and that is most of the point. Aside from people actually having to think about what they are voting for, people will have to spend about an hour taking a test. Now you have a system where you really have to actually care about the issues before you vote because if you are one of those lazies who base their decisions on TV commercials, you are definitely too lazy to spend an hour writing an essay at your local polling place.

--Again, I agree with this one because everybody can write an essay and it weeds out the uncommitted.

reply to post by truthquest




Good post

And again, good post

I blame conspiracy theories.
Down with them.
The government did go to the Moon.
(And everything Hanks and Aldrin now say happened.)
The government says planes weakened the 9/11/01 towers.
The government does not lie about UFOs by not telling.

Those are not political problems so we are safe.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech & fleetlord


I'll see if I can edit out some of the insults... its just someone voting based on a whim makes me very angry so its hard to not insult someone who does that. But in fact someone of exceptionally low intelligence really is stupid and that is more of a fact than an insult. On days when I get three hours of sleep I really am a bit stupid.

Even if the IQ test is fairly bad, it can still work well enough from a practical point to decide who is more intelligent and who is less intelligent. If the hunter you speak of is intelligent, then with a a hundred or so hours of study he should be able to get an above average score.

The whole point of democracy is definitely not to give everyone equal say in government. In a democracy, the people are the government. The point of a democracy is for the people to be the government. In a democracy you aren't just given a say, you are the government. Democracy is the will of the people in replacement of traditional government. If the point of democracy was to give everyone equal say then we would allow five-year olds to vote. We do not allow five-year olds to vote because their decisions are not intelligent ones. They tend to do what they are told because they are not intelligent enough to make decisions on their own. And for the exact same reasons, those of below average intelligence should not be voting at the polls.

The democratic will of the people should be to delegate the decision making process to intelligent people. It makes no sense to make everyone an equal part of government when there are some people who actually care more than others and the people who care more should have more say than the people who do not care. Give everyone an equal opportunity but not equal power. Power should be delegated equally only to people who are equally ready to wield it.

Democracy is about people being the government. It is about people participating in government. Voting is one way among many that people can participate in government. Some people should not vote. Less intelligent people can participate in government in other ways besides voting.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by truthquest]

Last time i checked,the constitution said notta thing about a democracy....we are supposed to be a republic...unfortunately now we are a fascist police state

Originally posted by consciousdrum
Last time i checked,the constitution said notta thing about a democracy....we are supposed to be a republic...unfortunately now we are a fascist police state

FINALLY someone here got it right! Star for you!
I may not agree with you that our current form of government is a 'Fascist Police State', but you are not the only one who feels this way. I created a thread a couple of days ago to see what others thought, I encourage you to post why you feel this way in it:
Is the USA even a Constitutional Republic anymore?


The USA was NEVER a Democracy! It was set up as a 'Constitutional Republic'!

If you are unfamiliar with what a Constitutional Republic is, you can go read about it on Wikipedia:
Constitutional Republic

OP,
Go re-read the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and for gods sake...PLEASE don't vote until YOU have done so.

If you feel that our Republic resembles a Democracy, feel free to drop into the thread which I created and linked above to share with us why you feel this way.

Originally posted by Paroxysm
OP,
Go re-read the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and for gods sake...PLEASE don't vote until YOU have done so.

If you feel that our Republic resembles a Democracy, feel free to drop into the thread which I created and linked above to share with us why you feel this way.

No... first you re-read my posting and explain the evidence tht my knowledge of the constitution is anything less than 100% perfect. Your posting mildly suggests your knowledge of the constitution is less than perfect, because you told me to "re-read the Constitution and Bill of Rights". Well, the Bill of Rights is part of the US constitution, so for you to add "and Bill of Rights" has no obvious point, as anyone who has read the constitution has already read the Bill of Rights. FYI, the Bill of Rights is part of the US Constitution as an amendment.

OK, I still stand behind the fact that you need to re-read the Constitution INCLUDING the Bill of Rights.

Originally posted by truthquest
At the moment democracy is not working, and in my mind that there is only one specific people group at fault: the voters.

This statement you make right here in your OP is completely flawed. WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY! PERIOD!

The reason our CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC is not working, is because those elected to serve are not adhering to the principles and laws laid out in it.

They run roughshod around it any time they feel like it, and act like it doesn't exist. They also don't listen and respect the general populace, and pretty much have nothing but contempt for the common American, despite the lies that they spew out to the contrary. The mere fact that 'Presidential Directives' even exist is good evidence of this. The President can just decree something now, and it can be enforced with the full force of the law...sounds more like a Dictatorship to me.

reply to post by truthquest


I agree with the general idea that the voters are at fault for perpetuating the insanity by re-electing the miserable scum year after year but I can't give the criminal actions of the electorate a pass.

Originally posted by Paroxysm
OK, I still stand behind the fact that you need to re-read the Constitution INCLUDING the Bill of Rights.

Originally posted by truthquest
At the moment democracy is not working, and in my mind that there is only one specific people group at fault: the voters.

This statement you make right here in your OP is completely flawed. WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY! PERIOD!

The reason our CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC is not working, is because those elected to serve are not adhering to the principles and laws laid out in it.

They run roughshod around it any time they feel like it, and act like it doesn't exist. They also don't listen and respect the general populace, and pretty much have nothing but contempt for the common American, despite the lies that they spew out to the contrary. The mere fact that 'Presidential Directives' even exist is good evidence of this. The President can just decree something now, and it can be enforced with the full force of the law...sounds more like a Dictatorship to me.

Today most political power rests in the hands of the corporate lobbyists. So that makes the United States government mostly a fascist country. But I believe that by law we are both a democracy and a republic. A democracy is generally thought to be a government by the people, and for the people. I do believe our Republic is by the people and for the people.

When the people re-elect congress, they are making a statement that their congress are doing what they are supposed to be doing. The people want fascism in today's society and they are getting it. I believe our fascism in the US is fair and square because each fascist member of congress such as Chris Dodd has been re-elected each and every year with rarely any failure.

The people have selected fascism out of ignorance though. Once the depression gets bad enough I figure they'll change their mind and decide they'd rather not delegate their authority to corporate interests.

As far as I know, there are two possible ways to participate in government. You can vote, or you can submit for redress of grievances. For one reason or another, our congress and judiciary has chosen not to bother allowing redress of grievances despite clearly being a part of the constitution. However, we are still allowed to vote. And we as a whole vote in a way that expresses the opinion that corporate lobbyists belong in control of our country. In other words, our congress chose to ignore us and listen to lobbyists. And after that, we re-elect congress. Anyone with actual principles such as Ron Paul has virtually zero chance of getting elected. This shows that at this time, people are not interested in principles, but rather they prefer promises of free stuff in exchange for a bit of fascism so they don't have to participate much in government as the corporations will do that "for them". Of course I have hope that in the future this will change.