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Why I'm Tired of People Opposed to Health Care Reform

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posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Violet Sky
reply to post by mhc_70
 


So don't think, "OMG, Obama care will cause me to have worse care." The truth is Obama care will cut out all the nonsense that is currently apart of the system.


Can you show me a government run health care program that does not end up causing the thought process your telling me not to have?




posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Helmkat
Your agenda is laid bare.

A thread on this site is not -proof- of anything. Reading that thread proves that.

Please display the actual line of the proposed bill that says all private health care will be removed -and not a line from a post on this site-.

Proof, proof, proof. Not speculation or heresay.




SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined.--Subject to
the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing
acceptable coverage under this division, the term ``grandfathered
health insurance coverage'' means individual health insurance coverage
that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if
the following conditions are met:
(1) Limitation on new enrollment.--
(A) In general.--Except as provided in this
paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer
offering such coverage does not enroll any individual
in such coverage if the first effective date of
coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
(B) Dependent coverage permitted.--Subparagraph (A)
shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a
dependent of an individual who is covered as of such
first day.
(2) Limitation on changes in terms or conditions.--Subject
to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does
not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits
and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the
first day of Y1.
(3) Restrictions on premium increases.--The issuer cannot
vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of
enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage
without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk
group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
(b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans.--
(1) Grace period.--
(A) In general.--The Commissioner shall establish a
grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after
the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an
employment-based health plan in operation as of the day
before the first day of Y1 must meet the same
requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits
plan under section 101, including the essential benefit
package requirement under section 121.
(B) Exception for limited benefits plans.--
Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an employment-based
health plan in which the coverage consists only of one
or more of the following:
(i) Any coverage described in section
3001(a)(1)(B)(ii)(IV) of division B of the
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009
(Public Law 111-5).
(ii) Excepted benefits (as defined in
section 733(c) of the Employee Retirement
Income Security Act of 1974), including
coverage under a specified disease or illness
policy described in paragraph (3)(A) of such
section.
(iii) Such other limited benefits as the
Commissioner may specify.
In no case shall an employment-based health plan in
which the coverage consists only of one or more of the
coverage or benefits described in clauses (i) through
(iii) be treated as acceptable coverage under this
division
(2) Transitional treatment as acceptable coverage.--During
the grace period specified in paragraph (1)(A), an employment-
based health plan that is described in such paragraph shall be
treated as acceptable coverage under this division.
(c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage.--
(1) In general.--Individual health insurance coverage that
is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection
(a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an
Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
(2) Separate, excepted coverage permitted.--Excepted
benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health
Service Act) are not included within the definition of health
insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the
offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of
excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced
separately from health insurance coverage.


proposed bill

There it is.

You can keep your plan, and add dependants to it.

UNTIL ANY ASPECT OF THE PLAN CHANGES. Then you have to go to the gov't plan.

And after 5 years, you have to go to an exchange plan regardless.

Your ignorance is laid bare.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by mhc_70

Originally posted by Violet Sky
reply to post by mhc_70
 


So don't think, "OMG, Obama care will cause me to have worse care." The truth is Obama care will cut out all the nonsense that is currently apart of the system.


Can you show me a government run health care program that does not end up causing the thought process your telling me not to have?


Well, psychologically, people under any system will have various feelings about health care. We've seen commentators from Canada and Europe here who say their government healthcare system is fine.

But there are always some people in any system that will feel they have not been cared for. But I have a feeling that many of those people would find something to complain about under any system.

I'll tell you this much. I've personally had doctors run all sorts of expensive tests for me and my children that they 'recommended', only to find that after shelling out $5,000 out of my own pocket for some fancy machinery to run the 'test', they won't even give me the results. I call and call, come into the office, and they say, "We can't find the results." This has happened more than once.

It's all a big rip off scheme and I'm tired of it.

I think they need to be regulated, imho.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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DISCLAIMER: If you are the sensitive type and often find yourself offended by opinions posted here, then with all due respect, don't read the rest of this post.



I continue to hear people tell me how this plan Obama is pushing will be successful.

In order to be successful, it would have to stay within budget without cutting back on an individuals health care, at a bare minimum.

This has never happened with government run health care anywhere in the world.

There are many definitions for, following the same course of action over and over again and expecting a different result.

Insane, lunacy and foolishness are just a few.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Electro38
Obama is a very smart guy, which is what we needed to lead very ignorant and selfish/greedy people in the USA.

People don't realize that basic health care shouldn't be a privilege in a modern society.

Health care, education and food should not be privileges in a rich modern society. But that would remove a lot of lining from many peoples pockets.

We should be learning from the Swiss.


Why can't anyone take responsibility for themselves? When I bought my home I didn't ask for a discount, I worked harder and saved. When I go food shopping I buy what I can afford. My truck was in my price range. Everything I own came from work with my own two hands as a plumber.

I don't hand money out to bums on street corners. I'd rather point out the help wanted sign on the store front window. I'm willing to work two or three jobs if I must to survive. I'll fish, hunt, and grow my food if I damn well have too. Never has will it occur to me that someone else has to look over my well being.

The world doesn't need a hand out. It needs the willpower to excel. People need to expect to pull themselves up rather then waiting for someone else to do it.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by amazing
reply to post by Hemisphere
 


yeah I understand that. The bigger question I guess is do we need any stimulus at all. How much good is any of it really doing both short term or long term. And then what do we do about health care? Sure we could kick out all the illegals and that would unclog us and reduce costs a little bit ...but only a little. The current system and insurance scams isn't working. So a national system that doesn't take the current systems place but just offers an alternative? Isn't there some republican lawmakers that can come up with a valid alternative to the Obama plan? Isn't there anybody on capital hill that can clean up the current bill and just give us what we need without all the crap added to it?


Yes there is! It's being ignored by the left.

California Congressman Darrel Issa's Health Bill: H.R. 3438

A BILL To amend title 5, United States Code, to establish a national health program administered by the Office of Personnel Management to offer Federal employee health benefits plans to individuals

I found Issa's Health Care Handbook very informative.

Representative Issa on Health Care

He appeared with Bill Maher on HBO last night. He stated that the French spend 11% of their GDP on healthcare and are touted as the world model whereas we are heading toward 24% of our GDP with the administration's proposal.

There is also the "The Patients' Choice Act of 2009" and that can be viewed on The Huffington Post:

Republican Health Care Plan Unveiled

Arianna Hufington also appeared with Maher last night. That particular episode was informative and was more civil in comparison to Maher's typical runaway conservative bashing. Could it be that Maher is also seeing the writing on the wall regarding the deficit spending? Nah! He knows where his bread was buttered. This appearance however showed Issa to be informed and able to communicate clearly on these complicated issues. Maher's left leaning audience responded in general favorably to Issa in my opinion.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by mhc_70
 


But you see, thats my -choice-. If -I- decide that I like the Govs. plan better then the other plans available from my company, then yay for me! and you know what? if -I- decide to -try- the plan for a year and don't like it, well guess what?! I will go back to a private plan!! Choice is good and as for the part about taxes? well I pay taxes for Schools and I don't have any kids so why should I mind paying taxes for a health plan that I can opt into when I want to.


What you don't realize is that once you've left your current plan and tried the government's alternative "for a year" there might not be an employer offered alternative plan to go back to. Costs and options in private plans are largely determined by the number of members/subscribers in the plan. (I assume you're not the only subscriber in your current plan.) Once that number drops due to relatively healthy individuals leaving the group to save money, the plan either goes up precipitously in cost or is dropped altogether by the provider. In short order there will be no alternatives. Yes, something has to be done. It should start with tort reform. It's a no brainer, get the lawyers out of the health care mix. Limit liability. Oops, the "Law Professor in Chief" would not hear of that. Perhaps the new jobs he is "creating" will be in the law profession. It's the circle of law.... er life.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Hemisphere
 


I prefer this option...

demint.senate.gov...



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by mhc_70
reply to post by Hemisphere
 


I prefer this option...

demint.senate.gov...


Thank you for pointing that out MHC!

This quote excerpted from a summary of DeMint's

The Health Care Freedom Plan
'Insures More Americans in Half the Time at No Cost'


Reduces predatory and frivolous malpractice lawsuits against physicians and hospitals.


That alone's a damn good start to any health reform. Check out the link to DeMint's website and his plan summary!


[edit on 9-8-2009 by Hemisphere]



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by Hemisphere
 


I sent you a pm, thanks.

But after looking a third time, you have it right, nm...

[edit on 9-8-2009 by mhc_70]



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by hotrodturbo7
 


We see things differently I guess, what you see as the iron clad death of private healthcare I see as something different altogether. However the ignorance term is bandied about a bit to liberally these days, its sad really.




posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


I already posted the section, break it down for me, what do you think it says?



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by hotrodturbo7
 


Reply to you U2U



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


Why not reply in the thread?

If you want to say something personal, I will not read it anyway.

If you have an on-topic reply, post it in the thread.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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I got an idea!!! We eliminate the income tax. Then people will have the money for their own health care!



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by smarteye
I got an idea!!! We eliminate the income tax. Then people will have the money for their own health care!


What about the people who do not pay income tax?

If you consider tax credits, there are people that get back more in their refund than they actually paid though out the year.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by mhc_70
 


I hate to be a jerk here, but anyone who thinks that there will be private run health insurance after this thing passes is only deluding themselves...

Read the bill, its clear that at anytime if you change your private care, you HAVE to switch to the government plan...HAVE to, im sorry but no one is going to tell me I HAVE to switch my insurance...

on a second note, all one has to do is look back through history, any time a government has taken over a certain part of the private sector , ANY of the businesses pertaining to that particular industry have been SHUT DOWN...

You cannot compete with the government, they have too many resources and to many tricks up their sleeve...

Want it broken down to the ridiculous for you? Look at Walmart.......what happens when Wal Mart moves into small towns? All the lil mom n pop shops go under......they cant compete...

Im not demonizing walmart here its just an example.....

Dont get brainwashed into thinking that youll get to pick and chose here, its pretty clear in the bill what it eventually intends to do about private healthcare, and one way or another...big brother will be the only one left on the block



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


Since when does sharing an opinion based on facts imply you are a jerk?

I didn't get that feeling at all, in fact I agree 100%, star for you.

The only thing I would modify would be to clarify who is doing the brainwashing in attempt to push this bill down our throat, that would be Obama.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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Read the Damn thing. It's a National ID card in disguise and ten times worse. It will be manditory to have some kind of ins or pay a fine, as originally written. It will be total disclosure of all assets, income, liabilitties, etc etc.. You will get a National health card, with rfid chip I'm sure, within two years. This is a socialist program designed to get the slaves used to being ran by the government in every aspect of your lives. Get Real!! We need health care but at the peoples choice not big pharma and big medicine corps choices. Its like when they made it mandatory to have ins for driving. It's about forcing you to spend money on health care. It's BS!



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Barkster
 


I agree i think we need healthcare reform, we need to tweak some stuff and change some things a bit.......but this is too far

You dont burn your house down to remodel your bathroom.....you work with what you have......

We have good healthcare in America, some of the best in the world, we just need to fix a few things......not let the government take it over



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