Is there an ARCHAEOLOGICAL COVERUP going on in New Zealand?

Okay. So you know people who are allowed to go to these sites, and take samples of the remains of these people's and test them........
and it hasn't been done because......

it's uninteresting? Unimportant? Inconvenient? No one in these fields has wanted it? No funding? Political?

None of those seem all the likely. So.....if you work with them, tell me why. Because I don't grasp it.

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Aeons
Hard to have facts when no one is allowed to go look or things are bulldozed, now isn't it?

It is simple to insist that those without fact are wearing the tinfoil, when in fact that side simply wants facts and can't get at them.

I know, and work with, some pretty major researchers (arguably THE major researchers) in New Zealand prehistory (mostly geology - including Quaternary studies) but also Biological investigations, Archaelogy and Radiocarbon dating (as well as being involved in the collection and processing of samples) and have never ever heard or seen anything about having their research obstructed/denied access and we have very in-depth discussions about all manner of things including much of what has been mentioned here.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by aorAki]

you have in depth discussions about allegations of teams of government workers bulldozing and destroying new zealand archaeological sites?

I find this strange, becuz most people arent even aware of the existance of these allegations, or even remotely aware of this controversy. What do you suppose is the reason for the allegations if they aren't true? It cant be to get enjoyment out of fooling lots of people, cuz hardly ANYONE even knows about it. (the hoaxers arent very good at publicity stunts it would seem, which sort of defeats the purpose of hoax doesnt it?) When archaeology students are told of the gympie pryamid controversy they usually look first blank, then a bit stunned to here there are even any rumours of pyramids in australia.

Also, in the above quotes it says there are special teams of people who do this stuff. i guess if they're really doing it, they wouldnt be telling all their 'mainstream'/normal researchers about it, or no doubt it would all 'get out'. presumably it would all be top secret, hush hush, and only those in the know, would be in the know, i suppose?

(actually there are similar allegations made about pyramids in australia: i.e. that the govt bulldozed some into the sea in the 1950s? forget when.)

reply to post by rapunzel222


There are some sites in the area I live in - one of the threads on this site is about a site that is in this area that a guy believes shows some indepth knowledge of using stars for navigation in a complex way. Because the people's in this area were nomadic, such sites are essentially not well understood or studied because of the bias towards agricultural societies and therefore stable infrastructure.

While doing political stuff I got the pleasure of watching an area that should be under protection for the vast number of archeological sites it contains, with letters from the government acknowledging such instead have all the letters be destroyed and the sites be given over to developers. The areas being preserved are not being preserved for protection, but are under the auspices of a semi-governmental sports agency but there is precious little work being done on them. Worse, that area should be part of a wildlife corridor that has a semi protected status in and of itself, even if it wasn't archeologically sensitive.

Under most sensible circumstances there is no reason why these areas are not being preserved. There are multiple reasons why they should be, including urban mangement ones for the area like the urban wildlife and bird migration corridor plans.

Yet, there it is. I've held copies of the letters from the government about their intention to protect the area - letters that apparently never happened and don't exist.

reply to post by chiron613




Did you read the link ?

Did you see the skeletons, complete with remnant of red hair ?

Did you read about the embargoes and WHY they exist ?



Of course the Maoris wouldn't care if the skeletons of the race THEY destroyed and ate, the skeletons of those who PREceded them, the skeletons of those who FIRST created the supposed 'Maori designs' (CELTIC designs), the skeletons of those amazing NON-maori navigators and engineers were destroyed and ground into fertilizer.

The destruction means the Maori can take credit for what belonged to those earlier people .. it means the Maori can BURY the evidence, corruptly assisted by current and past governments.

Originally posted by rapunzel222


I find this strange, becuz most people arent even aware of the existance of these allegations, or even remotely aware of this controversy.

Thjere are quite a few, actually, who are aware of these allegations,and that's why we can talk about them.

I've been aware of this since 2001. Certainly I myself err towards the conspiracy side (because it is interesting to ponder....don't even get me started on Bhuddist watercourse maps of the Mackenzie country dated by Chinese Monks as being c. 5000 years old (pers comm.), or the possibility of Pit Dwellings scattered throughout the South Island (pers comm.)) but I (reiteration) have never come across anything to substantiate this, including radar surveys across swamps/burial grounds etc.

You are aware that Maori buried their dead (at times) in a sitting position, facing out to sea, as at the Kai Tahu graveyard at the Kaik just passed Akaroa?
Certainly those bones ground as fertiliser may well have not been those of a certain Iwi...they could well have belonged to another, displaced Iwi, meaning they weren't 'their people'.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by aorAki]

reply to post by rapunzel222


S & F. This is brilliant research.

Unfortunately, the NZ government is as corrupt as all the others, and dictates what ordinary people should or should not be told. As for the 'conquerors' - they have a lot to answer for, in this country and everywhere else.

This is utterly sickening.

Also, what on earth (or in heaven) is the point of all these cover-ups?

If I was a Maori elder, I would be protesting through official channels (oh, and getting nowhere, probably). But Maori are represented in government - why do they not pursue the truth?

reply to post by aorAki


yeah, i had heard about the skeletons found in a sitting position. Reminds me of nazca/inca mummies in sitting positions. There was also supposed to have been a caucasian race of 'viracocha' people who lived in sth america at one time. Some of them had those amazingly elongated heads you can see at museums - nazca/paracas. I think its interesting that kon tiki viracocha legends exist in south america, and that the kon tiki god/ or tiki statues are all over the pacific. Where, interestingly, enough too, the lapita people are known to be i suppose the first colonizers of much of the pacific, and interestingly, the lapita are also supposed to be caucasian, with some of them having also the extremely elongated heads found in peru. There was a legendary character called 'batuku the skull' i think. These same people i think are also called 'long ears' - and had red hair. (red topnots on statues on easter island; long ears of the dyaks on indonesia)....many pacific chiefs elongated their earlobes too.

but then again, these extremely elongated skulls were found all over the world at one point. Also there was the practice of infant skull binding at that time - in my opinion to emulate these strange people.

There is a huge misinformation campaign to blur the reality about these skulls by suggesting that ALL are the result of skull binding, when this is known to be false. Some are known to show NO signs of skull binding, and 1.5 the normal brain capacity of a human. If these skulls, which are reasonably common and found worldwide, can be overlooked and categorized as 'normal' , then i think we have serious problems with scientific research going on. Some malta archaeologists have referred to them as 'a different race'. one of the malta skulls shows no signs of binding. the skulls at malta have been removed from public display and there are only a few remaining, even though thousands were originally recovered from the hypogeum...apparantly.

in peru, they are on display at museums for all to see. But where are the majority of them - probably (hopefully) in the basement of a museum somewhere.

in egypt people just seem to be overlooking so much. and the public is so unaware.

Caucasian mummies have been found in china - but i havent heard as to whether any of them show the unusual skulls. also in the canaries i think.

The russian video of archaeologists digging up these strange skulls is good - i might post it.

Whatever is being covered up here its thoroughly disgusting that Officialdom can just slap an embargo on the release of historical information. We all have a right to understand and discuss history. Can`t understand the morals of people who would do this.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by rapunzel222


If I was a Maori elder, I would be protesting through official channels (oh, and getting nowhere, probably). But Maori are represented in government - why do they not pursue the truth?

Maybe they didnt really like the races that were there before them much? Or maybe theyre happy to be portrayed as the first inhabitants of the country if thats what the govt wants to say is true. (maybe its to do with land rights claims/prestige or something, who knows - it goes better for them if they were the first? Idont really know.) Im sure a lot of the elders do voice and defend their legends and beliefs, but whether anyone listens or spreads their views around might be another thing.

Or more likely, perhaps, the younger generation - i wonder if they still believe the stories their elders tell, or if they believe the western version of their history instead? I think this shift in thinking has happened elsewhere with some indigenous younger generations maybe starting to doubt their traditional beliefs in the face of the western world view being pushed on them and everyone else. (specially if evidence for the other is being conveniently disposed of) ... (Just speculation)

reply to post by rapunzel222


I learnt that the Moriori was here first, and that the Maori overcame them, and I was taught that the last refuge of the Moriori was the Chatham Islands.

You know something?

I think that everything that I was taught was lies, judging by what our politicians say.

Also, historians are huge liars. They only tell the good stuff about their own country.

maybe the maoirori (cant spell) were there as well, that cud be true i dont know. but their legends and the evidence also points to there having been an earlier caucasian race/races on the island that were also wiped out, it seems.

Here's why:

If you knew that there was a definite chance of the world ending tomorrow because your history shows you how it has happened time and again.
From where would you draw your motivation to be a citizen? to go to work? to raise a family? to believe there is a bright future for yourself or your family.

If everyone actually KNEW what random creatures we were and how fragile we were and how we've been utterly destroyed.

Do you think anyone would care about poverty? aids? cancer? war?

no body would give a darn about anything and societies everywhere would collapse, power would dissolve and we would all kill each other off in a chaotic frenzy to maintain personal territory and access to food and water while we waited out our final days.

The mind is everything. If we shape what the mind is, we shape what our world is. Part of that includes feeding milk to babies and meat to the strong.

the uninitiated would surely self destruct upon knowing, and that is why you have keepers of secret knowledge, the ignorant who scurry about and the yearners, who want to know, but don't really want to be initiated into knowing.

This place is filled with yearners. A yearner has a chaotic mind. It wishes that some external thing will come along and solve all his or her problems for them.

I personally would rather be ignorant. Unfortunately, I can't even have that having been an initiate.


anyway, just saying...



[edit on 8-8-2009 by djusdjus]

I've never heard of these pale-skinned guys from New Zealand and have had to do a little reading up to try and understand the story. The first thing I'm confused about is...what's being covered up? If there was 'pale-skinned' people before Polynesian settlement...why would it be covered up? To who's advantage would this be? The Maori (according to links) don't care. The Government don't care and I can't find a single archaeological reference to a pale-skinned predecessor of later migrations.

Genetic studies (I think Aeons mentioned it also) reveal no evidence to support a separate gene pool in the distant past. A very interesting study into the populations of Polynesia and Melanesia appear to disagree with the possibility of a 'third' population...

Overall, we classified 94.1% of Polynesian Y chromosomes and 99.8% of Polynesian mtDNAs as of either Melanesian (NRY-DNA: 65.8%, mtDNA: 6%) or Asian (NRY-DNA: 28.3%, mtDNA: 93.8%) origin, suggesting a dual genetic origin of Polynesians in agreement with the ‘‘Slow Boat’’ hypothesis. Our data suggest a pronounced admixture bias in Polynesians toward more Melanesian men than women, perhaps as a result of matrilocal residence in the ancestral Polynesian society. Although dating methods are consistent with somewhat similar entries of NRY/mtDNA haplogroups into Polynesia, haplotype sharing suggests an earlier appearance of Melanesian haplogroups than those from Asia.

Melanesian & Asian Origins of Polynesians

The Melanesians were a stone age people that had populated surrounding islands up to 3500 before present. As they were a greater part of of the migrations to NZ, it seems reasonable that the hand axes in one of the links may originate with them. The stone 'cairns' and 'walls' are undated and could be from any point in the past 1000 years.

Some 300 years ago 4 white sailors decided to stay on NZ and naturally integrated. They gave their muskets to the Maori tribal elders and were given high status brides in return. They moved to the unpopulated areas of NZ and began raising big families (10-12 in some cases) and cultivating the land. It's possible that if they are cairns and walls, it's the legacy of those early families. One man returned to England after his wife died, the rest are embedded in the surnames and gene pools of the Maori population.

I'll be interested to see what aorAKI learns from the documents he's requested. The tales of a 'red-haired, white, celtish...etc etc' race that's supposed to have spread technology, astronomy and just about everything 'clever' in the world is not grounded in any historical fact. The originators of technology come in all shapes, sizes, colors and nationalities.

reply to post by careface


For the love of Jeebus, dont wait for a certain date that magically turns the place into a utopia, and us into superbeeings. Whatever is to be achieved, we have to work and sweat for it.


Greetings from Germany

reply to post by rapunzel222


In the huge echo of silence I am posting what I was taught.

That the Moriori was here first.

That the Maori decimated them, and they fled to the Chatham Islands.

Actually, the Maori ate them. Tell me I am wrong.

reply to post by djusdjus
This idea is put forward very often on ATS and similar boards. On the surface it makes a certain sense. If people knew that there was nothing to aspire to...they wouldn't try and societies would collapse. There are many variations of the reasons, but they all end in similar words to 'societies would collapse.' Sometimes it's 'people will panic!' Sometimes it's 'religions would crumble!'

Think about it a moment. If YOU have this knowledge...has YOUR world collapsed? Has any ATSer or friends of yours world's collapsed because they too KNOW this?

The answer you're looking for is probably...no.

If the answer IS no....why should the answer be different for anyone else? What would make the world panic and religions crumble if you are coping fine with the knowledge?

reply to post by Kandinsky


The answer is, the history is there - read it.

Please do not patronise me.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

The answer is, the history is there - read it.

Please do not patronise me.

I hadn't realized I was addressing you Just looked again...and ...nope...no post addressed to you.

Now, how about you explain to me 'which' history? I wrote briefly about the 'history' I could find and I've read the OP links. Please point me in the direction of something more substantial than I have already read

Originally posted by chiron613
I don't think any of us would appreciate someone digging up our deceased ancestors in the name of "science"

well clearly you have no place to question, we can only go forward if we dig up our deceased.

reply to post by Aeons


And that would be interesintg - why?

Because it would establish everything about the Moriori - but everyone in NZ is too sound asleep to do it.


Come on, you science undergrads - DO IT!