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Hiroshima- Those brutal immoral American during WWII

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posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
but the response was a little overblown as compared to the slight.


And we'll do it again if tested.

I like things that go boom.

When it comes down to me or you, it will be me. Or was it you?

The dollar won't crumble, to many sneaky sneak subs loaded up with enough boomies to take out an entire country.

We can bring an Air Force bigger than that of most countries to your door step.. I love me some shock and awe.

If America goes down, we are taking the rest of you with us. I wouldn't have it any other way.

It'll be on pay per view too.

No one is getting off this planet alive. No one.

So fire up the tractor 'ma and grab the shotty, I'm drinking me some shine and I feel a ruckus 'comin on.

Welcome to the end-game, admission is free and the popcorn is over-priced.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by crisko]




posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
but the response was a little overblown as compared to the slight.


And we'll do it again if tested.

I like things that go boom.

When it comes down to me or you, it will be me. Or was it you?

The dollar won't crumble, to many sneaky sneak subs loaded up with enough boomies to take out an entire country.

We can bring an Air Force bigger than that of most countries to your door step.. I love me some shock and awe.

If America goes down, we are taking the rest of you with us. I wouldn't have it any other way.

It'll be on pay per view too.

No one is getting off this planet alive. No one.

So fire up the tractor 'ma and grab the shotty, I'm drinking me some shine and I feel a ruckus 'comin on.

Welcome to the end-game, admission is free and the popcorn is over-priced.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by crisko]


If America goes down you're taking the rest of us with you. . . You're a caring compassionate little fellow aren't you? I thank god that you are in the minority and not all Americans think like you. Its no wonder America gets such a bad name. . .



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
but the response was a little overblown as compared to the slight.


And we'll do it again if tested.

I like things that go boom.

When it comes down to me or you, it will be me. Or was it you?

The dollar won't crumble, to many sneaky sneak subs loaded up with enough boomies to take out an entire country.

We can bring an Air Force bigger than that of most countries to your door step.. I love me some shock and awe.

If America goes down, we are taking the rest of you with us. I wouldn't have it any other way.

It'll be on pay per view too.

No one is getting off this planet alive. No one.

So fire up the tractor 'ma and grab the shotty, I'm drinking me some shine and I feel a ruckus 'comin on.

Welcome to the end-game, admission is free and the popcorn is over-priced.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by crisko]


If America goes down you're taking the rest of us with you. . . You're a caring compassionate little fellow aren't you? I thank god that you are in the minority and not all Americans think like you. Its no wonder America gets such a bad name. . .


It's called satire, which is the basis of this thread.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by crisko
 


Other countries really dont understand are humor sometimes its kinda funny in itself. Amareicans are good at sarcasm and good at spotting it. Other countries not so much!



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Sardot
Hi there...I teach U.S. history and have an advanced degree in Middle East History. I just want to concur with those who have it right. The idea was to shorten the war while saving the most American lives. Yes, we could have done worse, a much larger city or cities like Tokyo. We could have picked an off shore island to show the strength, but I doubt it would have had the desired effect. The Japanese were close to the NAZI's in brutality and fanaticism. President Truman and his staff made the correct choice and had they been able to do it over, they easily would have made it again. It wasn't pay back for Pearl Harbour, it was the best way the United States had of bringing a quick and complete end to the devastating war in the Pacific which Japan initiated.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Sardot]


So Tokyo was already levelled to the ground, carpet bombing didn't "worked", one nuke didn't worked..What i've red is that in the third week of august the US would've had another a-bomb, and three more in September and three more in October...The most plausible plan was to drop numerous nukes on Japan in a short period prior to operation Downfall set to begin in October[the operation which never occured but with estimate death toll of about millions of Americans and tens of millions of Japanese]..Because they were afraid that Japan wouldnt surrender after Hiroshima and after every single deployment when a bomb was ready...
Imo the Japanese at the time were beyond brutality[ the Nazi's were "just" ice cold killers in efficiency] with the raping, torturing, use of chemical weapons and even cannibalism! ..
The genocide in Nanking [between 200.000 and 300.000 dead/raped/tortured] were no Chinese soldier was stationed for example..And i can tell from first hand the people in Indonesia rather had another 200 year rule of the Dutch then another one year of Japanese occupation...






[edit on 9-8-2009 by Foppezao]



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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Thats actually one thing i never understood: "why did the Allies kept Hirohito head of state"..All the warcrimes he was responsible of, for instance the use of chemical weapons..They should have conducted Dismemberment on him!..

[edit on 9-8-2009 by Foppezao]



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by Foppezao
 


I think it was to encourage the Japanese people to cooperate with the Allies.

If they had dethroned him, I don't think the general Japanese public would have accepted it and continued to fight and die.

They lived for their king if and if "he" said, stop, they stopped.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
but the response was a little overblown as compared to the slight.


And we'll do it again if tested.

I like things that go boom.

When it comes down to me or you, it will be me. Or was it you?

The dollar won't crumble, to many sneaky sneak subs loaded up with enough boomies to take out an entire country.

We can bring an Air Force bigger than that of most countries to your door step.. I love me some shock and awe.

If America goes down, we are taking the rest of you with us. I wouldn't have it any other way.

It'll be on pay per view too.

No one is getting off this planet alive. No one.

So fire up the tractor 'ma and grab the shotty, I'm drinking me some shine and I feel a ruckus 'comin on.

Welcome to the end-game, admission is free and the popcorn is over-priced.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by crisko]


If America goes down you're taking the rest of us with you. . . You're a caring compassionate little fellow aren't you? I thank god that you are in the minority and not all Americans think like you. Its no wonder America gets such a bad name. . .


It's called satire, which is the basis of this thread.


Satire! Is that what you call it? Other countries don't get your sense of humour, someone said earlier. . . It's not that we don't get it, it's just that it's not very funny!



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Foppezao
Thats actually one thing i never understood: "why did the Allies kept Hirohito head of state"..All the warcrimes he was responsible of, for instance the use of chemical weapons..They should have conducted Dismemberment on him!..

[edit on 9-8-2009 by Foppezao]


It's simple. They already had the Nuremberg trials for the PR move. But the japanese? They did research just like the Nazis. They were willing to offer their research in exchange for immunity, except for a few people. (I think Tojo was put on trial.)

So really, that's how moral your americans were. They didn't care about the mass killings, rapings, or anything else the japanese did. Got info? We've got a deal for you.

It's sick. The japanese military should of been crucified in my opinion. But I still stand by the fact that I believe it was wrong to intentionally bomb a large civilian population like that.



posted on Aug, 9 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Miraj
 


But we'd have to crucify all the sides for that if we crucified any of them for unrestricted bombing campaigns.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


In case you didn't know,

the winners set the rules...and if Japan knew they couldn't win, they should have accepted the U.S's offer, unconditional surrender.

To those who can not realize this, the OP is using sarcasm to justify his point. Even on the internet, it doesn't take much reading comprehension to understand that.

Now, did all of those people deserve to die? Nope. Not on either side of the war (civilian wise).

But it is WAR, and that is a fact of it.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Foppezao
Thats actually one thing i never understood: "why did the Allies kept Hirohito head of state"..All the warcrimes he was responsible of, for instance the use of chemical weapons..They should have conducted Dismemberment on him!..

[edit on 9-8-2009 by Foppezao]




You have to understand that the japanese emporer had nothing to due with the war. The emporer was so "above" everyone else that he had almost no contact with the government or with any thing the government did.
The average japanese soldier was an uneducated conscript that was thought of as expendable in war and were treated as such, this military system rewarded cruelty by commanders and it was reflected in the abuses of the average soldier.
By allowing the emporer to remain the conquorers gained the respect of the japanese people.
The military government was soley responsible for the japanese atrocities.
And there was no need for war crime tribunals as in europe as most of the offenders killed themselves rather than bear the shame of defeat.
The difference in japanese and german brutality is that the japanese were equal in their mistreatment of everyone, and it wasnt a state sponsored activity, but more of a lack of discipline in the ranks and continuation of a medievil martial philosophy that held that defeated enemies were beneath contempt.
Whereas the germans made a state sponsored industry of killing people because of their ethnic background, or percieved ethnic background, including loyal german citizens.
the other difference was that nazism was apolitical movment that would have reared its ugly head again in just a few years if the head wasnt cut off of the snake so to speak. whereas the defeated japanes were just that defeated, and in tune with japanese philosophy they aquiessed to the conquorers dealt with the shame of defeat, rather than drag on the war with sporadic guerrilla actions as the SS was planning.

PS for all tose lamenting the loss of life in the bombings of H and N, the japanese wouldnt have thought twice about useing such a weapon, and their late war foray into indonesia was to gain access to uranium just for that purpose.

Funny thing is that their most senior war planners knew that they would lose if they started a war with the usa but the fanatics believed in the superior martial philosophy of japan would make the "weak" americans quit without fighting.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Foppezao
Thats actually one thing i never understood: "why did the Allies kept Hirohito head of state"..All the warcrimes he was responsible of, for instance the use of chemical weapons..They should have conducted Dismemberment on him!..



MacArthur knew that the Japanese thought of him as a living God. He wanted the transition to go as peacefully as possible from a war footing to reconstruction and having the Emperor doing our bedding would work out in our favor. The people would listing and do what he said.


As far as dropping the second bomb.


Here is something people always over look when discussing the Bombings.



It is widely known that the US was destroying a city a day with conventional bombing. When they heard about Hiroshima the Japanese assumed it was just yet another one of their cities to be destroyed by conventional means.


Remember it was a secret weapon. Up until that time the A-Bomb was just a theory



It wasn't until the reports came in of strange effects that it caught the Japanese attention. The Japanese actually didn't know that in fact Hiroshima was destroyed by the "A-bomb" they didn't really understand what had happened. By the time they really got a handle on the situation it was too late we dropped the second.

After the second it was sianara.


Japanese realization of the bombing

The Tokyo control operator of the Japanese Broadcasting Corporation noticed that the Hiroshima station had gone off the air. He tried to re-establish his program by using another telephone line, but it too had failed.[34] About twenty minutes later the Tokyo railroad telegraph center realized that the main line telegraph had stopped working just north of Hiroshima. From some small railway stops within 16 kilometers (10 mi) of the city came unofficial and confused reports of a terrible explosion in Hiroshima. All these reports were transmitted to the headquarters of the Imperial Japanese Army General Staff.

Military bases repeatedly tried to call the Army Control Station in Hiroshima. The complete silence from that city puzzled the men at headquarters; they knew that no large enemy raid had occurred and that no sizeable store of explosives was in Hiroshima at that time. A young officer of the Japanese General Staff was instructed to fly immediately to Hiroshima, to land, survey the damage, and return to Tokyo with reliable information for the staff. It was generally felt at headquarters that nothing serious had taken place and that the explosion was just a rumor.

The staff officer went to the airport and took off for the southwest. After flying for about three hours, while still nearly one hundred miles (160 km) from Hiroshima, he and his pilot saw a great cloud of smoke from the bomb. In the bright afternoon, the remains of Hiroshima were burning. Their plane soon reached the city, around which they circled in disbelief. A great scar on the land still burning and covered by a heavy cloud of smoke was all that was left. They landed south of the city, and the staff officer, after reporting to Tokyo, immediately began to organize relief measures.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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There were War Crimes Tribunals in the Far East after the war. Granted, the Royal Family were 'protected', but several thousand trials were held in different countries, to include the PRC.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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The willingness of the Nippon army to kidnap the emperor in an attempt to avoid his announcing surrender to the Japanese people would have to show that the Japanese military's intent to continue the war until the last person standing.
Even after two hits with "the bomb" the Japanese military was still willing to continue the war.
The end only came because the Emperor himself made the announcement that the war was over.
One should wonder this. Why is it that even today, German war criminals are still pursued, however, the Allies agreed not to pursue Japanese war criminals after the Treaty of San Francisco was signed?



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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The Rape Of Nanking - those evil, immoral Japanese during WWII.

Say what you will about America's use of the a-bomb, but at least there was no wholesale butchery of an entire population. No rapes, no babies cut from wombs, no competitions among American soldiers to see which could behead the most Chinese civilians.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Amen - Read "The Rape of Nanking" and do more research...its out there with Japanese soldier's confessions. It is the butchery of Asia and then our own men upon Bataan. It's so nice we all buy Hitachi, Toshiba, Sony, JVC, etc. Great respect for our fallen generation and a fantastic way to teach our younger generations. Japan won...economically, they really won! I hate it and I hate that we place such value upon things instead of values.




posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by _Phoenix_
 

Phoenix, saving lives - millions of Japanese lives - was the purpose of dropping the bombs.

Do it the way you suggest, and instead of a few hundred thousand dead, now you have the blood of 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 on your hands.

Your way is the cruel way.

Your way would create the most suffering.

Your way would extend the suffering.

Your way would be a catastrophic slaughter.

But - as long as you could feel good about yourself . . .


This is as good a post as any.

en.wikipedia.org...

Both sides of every war have horrors and war crimes. It's sad, but generally all too true. Geneva can't save us all.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Foppezao

Originally posted by Oralloy

Originally posted by TruthParadox


America's leaders understood Japan's desperate position: the Japanese were willing to end the war on any terms, as long as the Emperor was not molested. If the US leadership had not insisted on unconditional surrender -- that is, if they had made clear a willingness to permit the Emperor to remain in place -- the Japanese very likely would have surrendered immediately, thus saving many thousands of lives.

The sad irony is that, as it actually turned out, the American leaders decided anyway to retain the Emperor as a symbol of authority and continuity. They realized, correctly, that Hirohito was useful as a figurehead prop for their own occupation authority in postwar Japan.


www.ihr.org...



The speculation that Japan would very likely have surrendered had we given a guarantee for the Emperor is a bit of a stretch. Japan was hoping that Soviet mediation would net them even better terms. It's pretty unlikely they would have abandoned the pursuit of even better terms so long as they had some hope of success on the Soviet front.


What do you mean Soviet mediation? the Soviet Union declared war on Japan on 8th of august

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Foppezao]


Throughout July, Japan hoped the Soviets would mediate surrender negotiations between the US and Japan.

Japan was hoping that, in exchange for Japan becoming a close ally with the USSR after the war, the USSR would pressure the US into giving Japan better surrender terms.

Japan was hoping to get something more like a ceasefire than a surrender if they could.

Some of the terms they wanted were:

"No occupation of Japan"

"Japan be in charge of prosecuting any Japanese war criminals"

"Japanese soldiers simply pack up and go home instead of surrendering"



EDIT: I suppose I should clarify, since this event is often misportrayed as "a surrender offer that the US ignored", that all Japan did was ask the Soviets to talk to their diplomat. There was no request to pass any messages on to the US. And all the hints in the communications intercepts indicated that Japan was not thinking of anything that the US would regard as acceptable surrender terms.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Oralloy]



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Foppezao
Interesting thing was that Truman actually bluffed in saying they would destroy more Japanese cities with the nukes while in fact those two or one more were the only ones they had at that moment



4. The final components of the first gun type bomb have arrived at Tinian, those of the first implosion type should leave San Francisco by airplane early on 30 July. I see no reason to change our previous readiness predictions on the first three bombs. In September, we should have three or four bombs. One of those will be made from 235 material and will have a smaller effectiveness, about two-thirds that of the test type, but by November, we should be able to bring that up to full power. There should be either four or three bombs in October, one of the lesser size. In November there should be at least five bombs and the rate will rise to seven in December and increase decidedly in early 1946. By some time in November, we should have the effectiveness of the 235 implosion type bomb equal to that of the tested plutonium implosion type.


www.gwu.edu...



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