Read this, then tell us about the national concioucness of Japan in WW2
www.historyplace.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">The Rape of Nanking
Japan brought down Hell upon itself, it died , as did Nazi Germany in the fire of it's own making.
Hiroshima- Those brutal immoral American during WWII, page 3
privacy
reply posted on 7-8-2009 @ 11:04 PM by dooper
reply to post by OldDragger
Actually, there are no civilians in war.
There's the military - and the enemy enablers.
War is two sides killing each other until one side is either unable to kill further, or unwilling to die further.
There is a number that must be reached. Only the loser knows that number, or can recognize that number.
The faster you reach that number, the faster you all get to whiz on the fire, call in the dogs, declare the hunt over, and get home to your coochie.
It's not a nice concept, and it really doesn't matter whether you like it or not - that IS the way it is.
The more you kill the faster, the quicker it's over.
[edit on 7-8-2009 by dooper]
Actually, there are no civilians in war.
There's the military - and the enemy enablers.
War is two sides killing each other until one side is either unable to kill further, or unwilling to die further.
There is a number that must be reached. Only the loser knows that number, or can recognize that number.
The faster you reach that number, the faster you all get to whiz on the fire, call in the dogs, declare the hunt over, and get home to your coochie.
It's not a nice concept, and it really doesn't matter whether you like it or not - that IS the way it is.
The more you kill the faster, the quicker it's over.
[edit on 7-8-2009 by dooper]
reply posted on 7-8-2009 @ 11:05 PM by grapesofraft
reply to post by _Phoenix_
Look in all out war their are NO civilians. In a war the scale of WW2 most of the countries people and resources are dedicated to supporting the military of that country. So to weaken the enemies resolve you break them down in any way you can, and usually a great place to do that is at the beginning of the supply chain.
AND
Do you really think that Germany or Japan wouldnt have bombed our civilians if they could have?
[edit on 8/7/2009 by grapesofraft]
Look in all out war their are NO civilians. In a war the scale of WW2 most of the countries people and resources are dedicated to supporting the military of that country. So to weaken the enemies resolve you break them down in any way you can, and usually a great place to do that is at the beginning of the supply chain.
AND
Do you really think that Germany or Japan wouldnt have bombed our civilians if they could have?
[edit on 8/7/2009 by grapesofraft]
reply posted on 7-8-2009 @ 11:07 PM by OldDragger
www.historyplace.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">The Rape of Nanking
Here's the corrected link
Here's the corrected link
reply posted on 7-8-2009 @ 11:19 PM by _Phoenix_
reply to post by grapesofraft
Imagine meeting the president who ordered the attack that killed your wife, your little girl etc would you still agree with it? Would you feel fine then?
"The end justifies the means" is not right. The true path in life, the path, we can all learn from, and the path that creates a better and more loving and respectable life overall to those around you is not "the end justifies the means" but it's the choices and decisions you make before the end.
Would you feel happier knowing you lived your life knowing you did all you could to set an example, knowing that you never killed anyone innocent, and you did the best you could to be a good person.
Or would you feel happier knowing you killed many innocent sweet people to stop other innocent sweet people to die. Would you actually feel like you accomplished something like that? Or would you realise that you merly took part in the never ending circle of violnce and death, and you did not teach anything to the future generations except taking the easy way out by killing innocent people.
Does a true hero take the easy way out by burning the whole village down to kill one evil man who lives there? or does he struggle and fight his way to stop the evil man in the safest way possible to the beautiful familes and children in the town, even if the hard way makes him fail and thus the evil man rapes and kills the local people in the heros home town.
He is a hero because of the way he lives his life. If every person learnt from this hero, the world would be a better place.
But if every person learnt from the easy way out, there would be NO villages left! haha
Well maybe if more countries would actually set an example to humanity and our future by not doing so, then we could actually believe such a thing as a possibility, but seeing as most humans take the easy way out, well we can never trust in such a thing.
Which brings me back to my main point, do you think people would have more faith in humanity if countries set such examples?
It's the past horrors that makes us/you believe that countries would kill innocent civillians at any chance to win a war. But what if we had past example of countries making it a point never to kill civvillians no matter what?
Do you think our expectations of humanity would be different then? would we have more faith in humanity, such an example by humanity would makes us never even think that such a thing would happen, that a country would not attack civllians.
We are living in the world shaped by our history, if our history was different, the world would be different. But seeing as nobody set good examples, the world is not as great as it could be.
Which is why everyone shoudl always try to set good examples to the world about morals etc, for the future of humanity.
[edit on 7-8-2009 by _Phoenix_]
Imagine meeting the president who ordered the attack that killed your wife, your little girl etc would you still agree with it? Would you feel fine then?
"The end justifies the means" is not right. The true path in life, the path, we can all learn from, and the path that creates a better and more loving and respectable life overall to those around you is not "the end justifies the means" but it's the choices and decisions you make before the end.
Would you feel happier knowing you lived your life knowing you did all you could to set an example, knowing that you never killed anyone innocent, and you did the best you could to be a good person.
Or would you feel happier knowing you killed many innocent sweet people to stop other innocent sweet people to die. Would you actually feel like you accomplished something like that? Or would you realise that you merly took part in the never ending circle of violnce and death, and you did not teach anything to the future generations except taking the easy way out by killing innocent people.
Does a true hero take the easy way out by burning the whole village down to kill one evil man who lives there? or does he struggle and fight his way to stop the evil man in the safest way possible to the beautiful familes and children in the town, even if the hard way makes him fail and thus the evil man rapes and kills the local people in the heros home town.
He is a hero because of the way he lives his life. If every person learnt from this hero, the world would be a better place.
But if every person learnt from the easy way out, there would be NO villages left! haha
Do you really think that Germany or Japan wouldnt have bombed our civilians if they could have?
Well maybe if more countries would actually set an example to humanity and our future by not doing so, then we could actually believe such a thing as a possibility, but seeing as most humans take the easy way out, well we can never trust in such a thing.
Which brings me back to my main point, do you think people would have more faith in humanity if countries set such examples?
It's the past horrors that makes us/you believe that countries would kill innocent civillians at any chance to win a war. But what if we had past example of countries making it a point never to kill civvillians no matter what?
Do you think our expectations of humanity would be different then? would we have more faith in humanity, such an example by humanity would makes us never even think that such a thing would happen, that a country would not attack civllians.
We are living in the world shaped by our history, if our history was different, the world would be different. But seeing as nobody set good examples, the world is not as great as it could be.
Which is why everyone shoudl always try to set good examples to the world about morals etc, for the future of humanity.
[edit on 7-8-2009 by _Phoenix_]
reply posted on 7-8-2009 @ 11:27 PM by dooper
reply to post by _Phoenix_
Phoenix, saving lives - millions of Japanese lives - was the purpose of dropping the bombs.
Do it the way you suggest, and instead of a few hundred thousand dead, now you have the blood of 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 on your hands.
Your way is the cruel way.
Your way would create the most suffering.
Your way would extend the suffering.
Your way would be a catastrophic slaughter.
But - as long as you could feel good about yourself . . .
Phoenix, saving lives - millions of Japanese lives - was the purpose of dropping the bombs.
Do it the way you suggest, and instead of a few hundred thousand dead, now you have the blood of 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 on your hands.
Your way is the cruel way.
Your way would create the most suffering.
Your way would extend the suffering.
Your way would be a catastrophic slaughter.
But - as long as you could feel good about yourself . . .
reply posted on 7-8-2009 @ 11:42 PM by _Phoenix_
reply to post by dooper
Nobody truly knows how many lives could have been saved or not. That's the problem I have. You kill thousands of people based on your prediction. Instead of trying your best to find a better solution, trying your best not to lower yourself to such a thing as murder.
I know if that "everyone" had your way of thinking then everyone would see each other as a threat and would try to eliminate that threat to save others, but in the end that would cause the human race to become extinct lol.
Imagine if extremists thought that the USA had become a serious threat, and by their predictions that by nukeing the USA it would in their opinion stop many future suffering and deaths in future wars. They would claim that by nuking the USA they saved millions of lives.
Same way of thinking.
But I guess that's why everyone has different ways of thinking, and it has created a balance. Both our ways of thinking in my opinion may have saved humanity overall.
So I'm not saying your way of thinking is wrong, just that I don't live by it, but you do. Maybe either way of thinking is neither right or wrong. Life is never so black and white, there's a lot of grey.
Right or wrong is a complicated subject indeed.
Peace.
[edit on 8-8-2009 by _Phoenix_]
Nobody truly knows how many lives could have been saved or not. That's the problem I have. You kill thousands of people based on your prediction. Instead of trying your best to find a better solution, trying your best not to lower yourself to such a thing as murder.
I know if that "everyone" had your way of thinking then everyone would see each other as a threat and would try to eliminate that threat to save others, but in the end that would cause the human race to become extinct lol.
Imagine if extremists thought that the USA had become a serious threat, and by their predictions that by nukeing the USA it would in their opinion stop many future suffering and deaths in future wars. They would claim that by nuking the USA they saved millions of lives.
Same way of thinking.
But I guess that's why everyone has different ways of thinking, and it has created a balance. Both our ways of thinking in my opinion may have saved humanity overall.
So I'm not saying your way of thinking is wrong, just that I don't live by it, but you do. Maybe either way of thinking is neither right or wrong. Life is never so black and white, there's a lot of grey.
Right or wrong is a complicated subject indeed.
Peace.
[edit on 8-8-2009 by _Phoenix_]
reply posted on 7-8-2009 @ 11:55 PM by passenger
Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by passenger
Um, in case you didn't know your history. Japan hoped to sue for peace as they knew they couldn't win.
Before or after the bomb(s)?
reply posted on 8-8-2009 @ 12:02 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by passenger
Before Pearl Harbor. Admiral Yamamoto the guy who planned the assault only did so reluctantly and because he was told to, and well you know how they culture was and still somewhat is like.
Before Pearl Harbor. Admiral Yamamoto the guy who planned the assault only did so reluctantly and because he was told to, and well you know how they culture was and still somewhat is like.
reply posted on 8-8-2009 @ 12:03 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by johnb
I just got a funny image of Bush and Saddam running around dressed up as Rambos fighting each other.
I just got a funny image of Bush and Saddam running around dressed up as Rambos fighting each other.
reply posted on 8-8-2009 @ 12:09 AM by _Phoenix_
Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by johnb
I just got a funny image of Bush and Saddam running around dressed up as Rambos fighting each other.
LOL had quite a similar image myself haha.
[edit on 8-8-2009 by _Phoenix_]
reply posted on 8-8-2009 @ 12:30 AM by XTexan
reply to post by _Phoenix_
The atomic bombs dropped on Japan killed 210,000 civilians.
The conventional bombing of Tokyo killed 97,031.
150,000 civilians died in Okinawa when we landed there.
Invasions of the main Japanesse Islands would have resulted in many, many more civilian deaths.
And thats not even taking into account the military losses that both sides would have suffered...
Edited to add Source
[edit on 8-8-2009 by XTexan]
The atomic bombs dropped on Japan killed 210,000 civilians.
The conventional bombing of Tokyo killed 97,031.
150,000 civilians died in Okinawa when we landed there.
Invasions of the main Japanesse Islands would have resulted in many, many more civilian deaths.
And thats not even taking into account the military losses that both sides would have suffered...
Edited to add Source
[edit on 8-8-2009 by XTexan]
reply posted on 8-8-2009 @ 12:39 AM by _Phoenix_
reply to post by XTexan
Statistics are just that, they cannot truly predict the future, or what choices leaders would have made or unexpected events would have come up.
BUT yeah I get the point. And I respect that view, and I understand it.
The more I think about this, the more I feel that maybe either choice would neither be right or wrong from the moral standpoint.
It's a complicated subject, life is very grey indeed, nothing is simple or black and white, especially morals.
I guess I can see the reasoning behind both choices that the president could have made. If a man truly feels like he made the right choice, to save people, then is he evil? NO
He is a good man, even if his choice was wrong.
It is those who know they do wrong and continue to do it that are evil.
So my conclusion is, my choice would have been different. But I guess I understand both views.
Peace.
[edit on 8-8-2009 by _Phoenix_]
Statistics are just that, they cannot truly predict the future, or what choices leaders would have made or unexpected events would have come up.
BUT yeah I get the point. And I respect that view, and I understand it.
The more I think about this, the more I feel that maybe either choice would neither be right or wrong from the moral standpoint.
It's a complicated subject, life is very grey indeed, nothing is simple or black and white, especially morals.
I guess I can see the reasoning behind both choices that the president could have made. If a man truly feels like he made the right choice, to save people, then is he evil? NO
He is a good man, even if his choice was wrong.
It is those who know they do wrong and continue to do it that are evil.
So my conclusion is, my choice would have been different. But I guess I understand both views.
Peace.
[edit on 8-8-2009 by _Phoenix_]
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