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Hiroshima- Those brutal immoral American during WWII

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posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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Oh Gosh, the evil Americans didn't have any moral or legal obligation to totally destroy the Japanese resistance! Darn, those awful war mongers to use such terrible force on those unsuspecting moral and just Japanese and their holy emperor.

We, those darn pushy Americans in Hawaii, deserved to be bombed without warning! Why as everybody was on a Sunday rest/duty routine, Those Just and Moral Colonial expansionists in Japan were just trying to save China from themselves!

When the first bombs of the Japanese struck their targets in Pearl Harbor; those evil Americans deserved to have their bodies, burnt, exploded, torn apart, severly wounded, blinded, deafened, mentally damaged and denied further life.

What's wrong with America that we should want to punish with a terrible weapon, those heroic and noble orientals? Atomic warfare should not have happened.
Who do we think we are? We should be moral, law abiding, leaders of peace. Even when we are attacked and severly damaged, we should gather around, singing peace songs, and searching our souls as to the reasons why we deserved our just punishments.

Nuclear weapons are evil and have done no good to prevent war again!

Oh, really? And what fantasy deminsion did you beam in from????

Congratulations America! Don't Tread on Us! Start a fight...Well finish it!!.

Dr. Strangelove aka Trust Me I'm a Salesman!
Hey, anyone interested in buying a heavily damaged Japanese Zero Fighter plane?
Probably get a fortune for it on that Antiques TV Road Show!!




posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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Hey there. I decided to join you here. I'll reserve comment until I have something to dispute.

My name is Tamusan, and I am an evil American. I have my Japanese wife slaving in the kitchen as we speak.

Edit to add:
Is your zero a Mitsubishi A6M? or is it a Nakajima Ki-43? If it is a Ki-43, where is it and what do you want for it?

[edit on 7-8-2009 by tamusan]



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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You clearly have some deep seated problems which I don't think anyone here on the hallowed pages of ATS can help you with.
I am undecided whether you are anti Japanese, anti American or simply anti common sense!
Rightly or wrongly America dropped the bomb on Japan because it thought it would shorten the war and, in the end, save lives.
"Immoral Americans. . !" Instead of critiscising America, or it's allies for that matter, just say thank you and be thankful that they stood up for you.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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So it's safe to say that you are for the mass killing of innocent civilians. You cheer when you see cities like Dresdon being destroyed and all it's inhabitants merclessly slaughtered? If an enemy of your country ever attacks inside your borders, you won't have a problem with them doing the same to you and your family then. Enjoy the slow death by radiation poisening when that time comes.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by TrustMeImaSalesman
 


Hm, shall we compare the civilian losses at Pearl Harbor to the civilian losses at Hiroshima? And while we are at it we can add all the losses of Nagasaki. And those lost to bombing the main island of Japan. I am not saying the Japanese are blameless in that war but the response was a little overblown as compared to the slight.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by Floating thru Reality
So it's safe to say that you are for the mass killing of innocent civilians. You cheer when you see cities like Dresdon being destroyed and all it's inhabitants merclessly slaughtered? If an enemy of your country ever attacks inside your borders, you won't have a problem with them doing the same to you and your family then. Enjoy the slow death by radiation poisening when that time comes.


Dresden!!? What about London? In one single night the whole of the East end of London was flattened. What about those good people who died?



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


Did you know the first civilian bombing that happend happend by mistake? And Hitler chewed the crew that did it out personally? Of course that started an orgy of unrestricted bombing on both sides when the English retalliated but I find it ironic it happend by mistake.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Floating thru Reality
 


It is a crazy little thing called war. It sounds like you are not familiar with the concept, so let me explain it to you. War is to be fought until the other side gives into your will or the other side runs out of bodies and weapons to throw at you. Some of you think it is evil to defend yourself or your country and I thank God there werent enough of you to stop us in WW2 or we would all be speaking GermaJapanese right now.

Great post TrustMeImaSalesman. A star and flag for your brilliant presentation and cunning use of sarcasm to prove a point.


[edit on 8/7/2009 by grapesofraft]



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


Did you know the first civilian bombing that happend happend by mistake? And Hitler chewed the crew that did it out personally? Of course that started an orgy of unrestricted bombing on both sides when the English retalliated but I find it ironic it happend by mistake.


I think we could start a new thread on just how many good innocent people have died by "mistake!"



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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I agree nuclear weapons should never be used. Yet, so many innocent people on all sides of the war died before the bombs were dropped, and many more would have died if they weren't dropped.

Whose evil here? What did the U.S. get? Just a few crappy islands in the pacific. Guam is far from a paradise, believe me. The Chinese communist party got a large country in the deal and the Soviets scored some land, too. Did we keep Japan as our own? No, we let the Japanese keep their country.

I said this in the other thread. The Japanese do no hate or resent the U.S. for dropping bombs. Actually, it is quite the opposite. It's too much fun to be an American guy in Japan these days. When I am in Japan, it is rare for me to be able to go out without being people wanting to practice English or just be seen with the white guy.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


Actually, I was wrong.

[edit] The Western Front, 1939 to June 1940
Following the German invasion of Poland and subsequent declaration of war by the Western Allies, in Hitler's OKW Direktive Nr 2 and Luftwaffe Direktive Nr 2 made no mention of strategic bomber raids, while attacks upon enemy naval forces were permitted only if the enemy bombed Germany, with the exception in the German Bight, noting that "The guiding principle must be not to provoke the initiation of aerial warfare on the part of Germany"; by contrast, Göring's directive permitted restricted attacks upon warships anywhere, as well as upon troop transports at sea.[47]

Britain and France declared war on Germany on 3 September. On the Western Front, the early months of the conflict were characterised by propaganda warfare: bomber forces of both sides carried out a series of leaflet raids during the winter months of 1939/40.[48] The British Royal Air Force bombed German warships at sea and in harbour, attacks on land targets and German warships in port were banned due to the risk of civilian casualties[49]Germany carried out strikes on the British naval bases at Rosyth and Scapa Flow on 16 and 17 October.[50] Further attacks on Scapa Flow, on 16 March 1940, caused the first British civilian deaths from German bombing on land, which prompted another British attack, against the German seaplane base at Hörnum.[51][52]

On 10 May 1940, Germany invaded Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg, intending to drive though the Ardennes into France and strike a quick blow that would end the war. As the Battle of France commenced on 10 May 1940, three German bombers from KG 51 mistakenly bombing the German city of Freiburg instead of the French airfield of Dole-Taveux, having lost their way over the Black Forest. German propaganda was quick to announce it as an Allied 'terror attack', and it was not until 1956 when the mistake was brought to light by researchers.[45] While Allied light and medium bombers attempted to delay the German invasion by striking at troop columns and bridges, the British War Cabinet gave permission for limited bombing raids against German communications targets such as roads and railways west of the River Rhine.[53] The first British bombs fell on a German city, Mönchengladbach, on the night of 11/12 May 1940, while Bomber Command was attempting to hit roads and railroads near the Dutch-German border; four people were killed.[54][55] Targets in Gelsenkirchen were attacked first on the 14/15 May.[56]

Rotterdam Blitz
Main article: Rotterdam Blitz
The Germans used the threat of bombing Rotterdam to try to get the Dutch to come to terms and surrender. After a second ultimatum had been issued by the Germans, it appeared that their effort had failed, and on 14 May 1940, Luftwaffe bombers were ordered to bomb Rotterdam in an effort to force the capitulation of the besieged city.[57] The controversial bombing targeted the center of the besieged city, instead of providing direct tactical support for the hard-pressed German 22nd infantry division (under Lt. Gen. Sponeck, which had airlanded on May 10) in combat with Dutch forces northwest of the city, and in the eastern part of the city at the Meuse river bridge.[58]

As negotiations for the surrender were in progress, with a Dutch plenipotentiary and other negotiators delayed on their way over to German lines, an unsuccessful attempt was made to call off the assault.[59]


Rotterdam's burning city centre after the German bombing.Nevertheless, 57 Heinkel He 111s (out of 100) did drop 97 tons of bombs, and in the resulting fire 1.1 square miles (2.8 km2) of the city center was devastated, including 21 churches and 4 hospitals, and killing between 800-1000 civilians, wounding over 1,000, and making 78,000 homeless.[60][61] Nearly twenty-five thousand homes, 2,320 stores, 775 warehouses and 62 schools were destroyed. [62]

International news agencies vastly exaggerated the events, portraying Rotterdam as a city mercilessly destroyed by terror bombing without regard to civilian life, with 30,000 dead lying under the ruins.[54] Neither claim was true: the bombing was against well-defined targets, in direct support of advancing German Army's operations.[54] The Germans had threatened to bomb Utrecht in the same fashion, the threat of a second such bombing was sufficient to force the surrender of the Netherlands to Nazi Germany.[63][64][65]

Following the attack on Rotterdam, RAF Bomber Command was authorized to attack German targets east of the Rhine on May 15, 1940; the Air Ministry authorized Air Marshal Charles Portal to attack targets in the Ruhr, including oil plants and other civilian industrial targets which aided the German war effort, such as blast furnaces (which at night were self-illuminating).[66][67] The first attack took place on the night of 15/16 May, with 96 bombers setting off to attack targets east of the Rhine, 78 of which were against oil targets. Of these, only 24 claimed to have found their targets.[68] Bomber Command's strategic bombing campaign on Germany has thus begun.[69] On the night of May 17/18, RAF Bomber Command bombed oil installations in Hamburg and Bremen: the H.E. and 400 incendiaries dropped caused six large, one moderately large and 29 small fires, 47 people were killed and 127 were wounded; .[70][71] Railway yards at Cologne were attacked on the same night.[71] During May, Essen, Duisburg, Dusseldorf and Hanover were similarly attacked for the first time by Bomber Command, while in June attacks were made on Dortmund, Mannheim, Frankfurt and Bochum.[56] As at the time Bomber Command lacked the necessary navigational and bombing technical background, the accuracy of the bombings during the night attacks was abysmal, and the bombs usually being scattered over a large area, causing an uproar in Germany. Days after Germany bombed Paris, on the night of 7/8 June 1940 a single French Navy Farman F.223 bomber attacked Berlin.[72]


[edit] The Battle of Britain and the Blitz
Main articles: Battle of Britain and The Blitz
On 22 June 1940, at the end of the Battle of France, France signed an armistice with Germany. However, Britain was determined to keep fighting. On 1/2 July, the British attacked German warships Scharnhorst and Prinz Eugen in port of Kiel and the next day, 16 RAF bombers attacked German train facilities in Hamm. Finally, on July 10, the Luftwaffe launched a strategic bombing campaign against the United Kingdom. Thus began the first phase of what came to be known as the Battle of Britain. The battle began with probing attacks on British coastal shipping, during which Hitler called for the British to accept peace, but the British refused to negotiate.

Hitler's No. 17 Directive, issued 1 August 1940 on the conduct of war against England specifically forbade Luftwaffe to conduct terror raids on its own initiative, and reserved the right of ordering terror attacks as means of reprisal for the Führer himself, despite the raids conducted by RAF Bomber Command against industries located in German cities since May 1940. This was echoed in Hermann Göring's general order issued on 30 June, 1940 on the air war against the island fortress:

The war against England is to be restricted to destructive attacks against industry and air force targets which have weak defensive forces. ... The most thorough study of the target concerned, that is vital points of the target, is a pre-requisite for success. It is also stressed that every effort should be made to avoid unnecessary loss of life amongst the civilian population.
—Hermann Göring

On August 8 1940, the Germans switched to raids on RAF fighter bases. To reduce losses, the Luftwaffe also began to use increasing numbers of bombers at night. By the last week of August, over half the missions were flown under the cover of dark. Despite Hitler's orders not to attack London, the city had already been bombed on 15 August, resulting in 60 deaths.[citation needed] There were further minor[citation needed] attacks on London at night in August, on the 18/19, 22/23, 24/25, 25/26 and 28/29. The raid of 22/23 August, the first Luftwaffe raid on central London, was described as 'extensive' by British observers.[85] On August 24, fate took a turn, and several off-course German bombers accidentally bombed residential areas of London. The next day, the RAF bombed Berlin for the first time, targeting Tempelhof airfield and the Siemens factories in Siemenstadt[90], but were seen as indiscriminate bombings by the Germans due to their inaccuracy, and infuriated Hitler; he ordered that the 'night piracy of the British' be countered by a concentrated night offensive against the island, and especially London. In a public speech in Berlin on 4 September 1940, Hitler announced that:

The other night the English had bombed Berlin. So be it. But this is a game at which two can play. When the British Air Force drops 2000 or 3000 or 4000 kg of bombs, then we will drop 150 000, 180 000, 230 000, 300 000, 400 000 kg on a single night. When they declare they will attack our cities in great measure, we will eradicate their cities. The hour will come when one of us will break - and it will not be National Socialist Germany!
—Adolf Hitler

"Children in the east end of London, made homeless by the random bombs of the Nazi night raiders, waiting outside the wreckage of what was their home". September 1940 (National Archives)
St Paul's Cathedral surrounded by fire on the night of December 29 1940The Luftwaffe, which Hitler had prohibited from bombing civilian areas in the UK, was now ordered to bomb British cities. The Blitz was underway.

en.wikipedia.org...
But I find it suprising that the line I highlighted



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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I've often wondered about the "Sneak attack" on Pearl Harbor." Funny how the aircraft carriers ( which take so long to build.) where absent when the bombing began, weren't docked. Nothing like getting out of a depression than revving up the war machine, come to think of it, the economy is doing pretty bad right now, I wonder when the next "sneak attack" is going to happen.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


My friend, I cannot fault the preciseness of what you say but I will question why you say it? This thread seems to be about the morality of America dropping atomic bombs on Japan not the shame of America not helping the Uk for the best part of three years during WW2. . .



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
I am not saying the Japanese are blameless in that war but the response was a little overblown as compared to the slight.


Right. And if someone stabs you in the arm with a #2 pencil then you should retaliate in kind. After all, it's just a "slight". You shouldn't grab a knife or bat and hit them in the head; you should seek out a #2 pencil and stab them in the arm (only) as well. Take that! That'll end the confrontation for sure.

Then you wait for them to get a chainsaw or something and hope you survive the attack to retaliate in kind. Keep it in proportion. Don't make the situation "overblown".

Brilliant analysis you have. Hope it works out for you.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


Tangetmentalness of the post *me*?



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by passenger
 


Um, in case you didn't know your history. Japan hoped to sue for peace as they knew they couldn't win.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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Whether it's a fight between two drunks in your local hostelry or an all out battle between two countries at war the main objective is to cause your enemy as much damage and harm as possible so they can't fight back. . . Doesn't matter if that's the local lush smashing a chair over a fellow drunks head or a country using atmic weapons to bring the enemy to it's knees. You do whatever it takes to be victorious. . .



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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There is not a country in the world who would have hesitated to use the Bomb, if they'd had it. The only reason the US looks like the bad guy is because it was the one who had the weapon. Its behavior was no different from what anyone else would have done.

As for killing civilians - it's not something that can be avoided, especially when moving in on the homeland. Modern warfare is going to involve civilians, no matter what you do.

During World War II, about twice as many civilians were killed as were soldiers. Cities were bombed in France, Germany, Italy, England, Russia, Poland, every other country that was involved, except for the US. The Germans had plans for bombing New York, but weren't able to reach it with the planes they had. Japan hoped to bomb cities in the West Coast, but again couldn't get their planes within range.

It's tragic that anyone ever dies in wars. But *NO ONE* was going to let some enemy civilians stand in the way of victory. Not a chance.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Actually, bombing civilians wasn't a mistake, and occurred in the First World War with Zeppelins.

More died during the 81 days of fighting on Okinawa than both atomic bombs together killed.

Add them up.

And had we elected to hold back the atomic weapons and invade mainland Japan, if you extrapolate the casualty numbers on Okinawa, then one million Americans, and three to five million Japanese would have become casualties.

So we did the most humane thing, and saved millions of casualties and dead.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by TrustMeImaSalesman

What's wrong with America that we should want to punish with a terrible weapon, those heroic and noble orientals? Atomic warfare should not have happened.


First ask yourself. How does the pacific fleet headquarters gets attacked by a fleet consisting of these numbers.

Mobile Unit:
6 aircraft carriers,
2 battleships,
2 heavy cruisers,
1 light cruiser,
9 destroyers,
8 tankers,
23 fleet submarines,
5 midget submarines,
414 aircraft

They didn't just "slip" by. They were let by, so that we could join WW2, in the same way we were also allowed to fabricate the atomic bombs. If you think about it, it just isn't true.

We were bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki for months before the "atomic" bombs were dropped. The bombs didn't even cause destruction, it was the fires that killed everyone and those were caused by regular bombs and bombing runs done for weeks before 8:15am on that day. They saw the planes and didn't even sound the alarm because there wasn't bomber after bomber. They dropped at very most, a big flare, everything else is made up...shadows and all.

There was a media blackout with one reporter let in to shoot pictures, it just didn't happen. Both hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving today, cherynoble on the other hand is a ghost town.

Nukes are scary, and that is why the Government says they exist, so that you will react as you are, in fear.

"Have no fear of atomic energy cause none of them can stop the time"...Bob Marley

Peace



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