Christians could just as easily be worshipping Ra, Baal, or Anu today

reply to post by undo


I don't think the language barriers would've been an issue if we'd known from the start it'd take thousands of years for these scriptures and prophesies to be fulfilled....or that our cultures would've evolved to the point that men (for the most part), have no idea who they are anymore because they don't know where they've come from...

....tall order indeed.

Mohammad does not change the life of a Muslim? Buddha does not change the life of a Buddhist? Krishna does not change the life of a Hindu?

The first question is: How do you know???

The second question is: Who says Jesus changes lives...well besides a Christian?

I was raised in a CHRISTIAN (emphasis) family. I hated it because they all sounded like soul-less robots, who could never answer my pressing questions or answered them with: "Pray and GOD will tell you!"

So now I'm borderline atheist...and loving it. It's obvious that depending on your region, you have a different god and or religion. And in every region there is some sort of oppression...that is human nature. Oppression always accompanies hope...it has to or oppression doesn't work. You hope...that your GOD...can save you from your oppression. Which in turn, oppresses you more because you can't think or see outside the box...it's your faith or DIE or KILL or OPPRESS others or what ever. So you become a slave of your own faith...and a slave of a human oppressor ...all in the name of God or Allah...or whoever it doesn't matter because it's all the same fabrication.

How can you say that all these religion pre-date Christianity. Maybe the title, yes. But not the practice. Did you ever think that if Ra was the true god, we would worship him. Did it click that the reason we do not worship them, is because they are not real. That the reason we worship Jesus, is because He is God... I do not think the Egyptians do not have their gods because of politics. But moreso because God smited them. Hence, half of their land is barren. I firmly believe if it was not for the Egyptians and their idols, there would not be a Sahara Desert.

reply to post by daysofnoe


So how do you explain the incredible fertility of the Nile than?

Good thread, but i'm done with it. You just can't argue with a bible
thumper, even if they don't realize that they're breaking a large portion
of the rules set forth in their own precious book on a daily basis.
Hypocrisy to the max.

reply to post by starsyren


it's been busy at the top though. alot goes on apparently, that we never get to see or hear about. not sure if that's bad or good. would depend, i suppose, on the content of the information. but if i've learned one thing it's that the gods of the various nations on the planet, have all been around for a very long time and most of their stories originate from the same gang from sumer.

you gotta know if jesus is as old as he says, and had a totally different name before he came to earth in that incarnation, that just calling him "god" will also work, it's generic enough to cover all the bases, it isn't a lie regardless of whether he's enlil or a son of enlil, as they all inherited the elohiym title in various parts of the old testament and he even says as much about himself. if he was enlil reborn, then he's not a new kid on the block, that much is certain.

reply to post by daysofnoe

How can you say that all these religion pre-date Christianity. Maybe the title, yes. But not the practice. Did you ever think that if Ra was the true god, we would worship him. Did it click that the reason we do not worship them, is because they are not real. That the reason we worship Jesus, is because He is God...

But you have no more reason for believing that than a Muslim has for believing Allah is god or a Hindu has for believing his multitude of gods are the true gods.

As with Whiterider’s argument, it can be turned right back on you. A Hindu would contend that Jesus is not the true god and cite his belief as testament to this.

It’s circular reasoning.



[edit on 7-8-2009 by Mike_A]

Good thread, but i'm done with it. You just can't argue with a bible
thumper, even if they don't realize that they're breaking a large portion
of the rules set forth in their own precious book on a daily basis.
Hypocrisy to the max.

You can't argue with a Christian...because all they say is God did it or Jesus did it. At least a "bible thumper" tries to bring something to the table besides an idiotic, childish come-back.

reply to post by daysofnoe


How can the practice of worshipping Christ exist before....Christ?
Because that's what Christ-ianity IS....which is why the Egyptian, Babylonian, Sumerian, hell...even the Asian religions predate it.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by starsyren]

reply to post by undo


Exactly undo - the same fallen angels have manifested themselves over and over as various "gods" and its not as if the scriptures have not addressed the gods you mentioned. It has addressed them explicitly.

"I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.”" (Ps 82:6-7)

They will die like men.


reply to post by kiwifoot



You act like the Christian scripture hasn't addressed these other "gods". They have been addressed, exposed and summarily dismissed.

My Bible software just returned 111 hits on Baal. This is a personal favorite.

"Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose for yourselves one bull and prepare it first, for you are many, and call upon the name of your god, but put no fire to it.” And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made. And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.” And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them. And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice. No one answered; no one paid attention." (1 Ki 18:25-29)

As far as the Egyptian gods, Moses confronted Pharaoh and the one true God did a smack down on them as well:

"‘For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord." (Ex 12:12)

In fact God has issued a challenge that has never been met by any of these impostors:

"“Remember this, and show yourselves men; Recall to mind, O you transgressors. Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’" (Is 46:8-10)

Yes and then Jesus came and fulfilled over 300 Old Testament prophecies to the letter.

" God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they." (Heb 1:1-4)

He is the alpha and omega - the Lord of Lord and King of Kings and I promise every one of you every knee will bow to him. Whether you do it now willingly or later when its too late is entirely up to you!

"“Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath." (Is 45:22-23)

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Bigwhammy]

I think so many people get this wrong.

Go ahead and worship whoever you want. There's no need to argue over which god is the real god, or for the athiests out there if there even is one. Religions of all types are meant to guide people on a righteous path. Forget about all the scripture about pagans and yadayadayada. All that baloney about 'this is the only way' is what the chuch decided to say in the place of the numerous books that they have taken out.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by starsyren


well actually, the concept of worshipping a deified name is not so much the point as it is the origin of the deity. if it's the same guy as before, but in a different "form", it's still the same guy. like if you were to have your consciousness downloaded into an alien lifeform, you would still be you. if you had a sex change, you'd still be you. if you wore a costume on halloween, you'd still be you. and if you dyed your hair purple with orange polka dots and called yourself tortilla, you would still be you.

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by daysofnoe

 

How can you say that all these religion pre-date Christianity. Maybe the title, yes. But not the practice. Did you ever think that if Ra was the true god, we would worship him. Did it click that the reason we do not worship them, is because they are not real. That the reason we worship Jesus, is because He is God...

But you have no more reason for believing that than a Muslim has for believing Allah is god or a Hindu has for believing his multitude of gods are the true gods.

As with Whiterider’s argument, it can be turned right back on you. A Hindu would contend that Jesus is not the true god and cite his belief as testament to this.

It’s circular reasoning.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by Mike_A]

I have been filled with the Holy Ghost, I have spoken in tongues, I have been spoken to by God, my life has been changed from someone who did not believe that Jesus ever lived to someone who understands that Jesus was God in the flesh. The Lord spoke with me in Feb. of this year, and I asked Him a question. He answered it on April 12th when I just happened to go to Church with my parents. It was the first Church service I attended in many many years. April 26th I was filled with the Holy Spirit of God and my life has changed so greatly. And it is by the grace of God. I lived tweleve years of my life hating every day and waiting to be dead. Now I thank God I get a chance to wake up everyday. I am not a life long 'Bible thumper.' I was once a Gentile like you all, carried away by dumb idols. I used to wonder about gods and aliens and all sorts of crazy ideas. (I do not mean crazy as in mental, stay calm...) But when you are given Holy revelation and blessed with truth. You KNOW it.

Originally posted by starsyren
reply to post by daysofnoe

 

How can the practice of worshipping Christ exist before....Christ?
Because that's what Christ-ianity IS....which is why the Egyptian, Babylonian, Sumerian, hell...even the Asian religions predate it.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by starsyren]

Christ is God. His name was hidden from the beginning, until the time He came in the flesh. As I said, they may pre-date the title. Cain and Abel (first sons of Adam and Eve) worshipped God. So therefore the worship of God, who is Christ, came before worship of all other so-called gods.


Egypt is an area of about 1,010,000 square kilometers, with only about 40,000 square kilometers of agricultural land. The Nile being the being the most fertile soil is kind of like a slap in the face. Imagine what could be done with all that soil and water if so much of that land was not barren. The Nile is also the longest river in the world. It is not just a river in Egypt.

reply to post by daysofnoe


Which is exactly what a Muslim says when I ask him the same question, or a Hindu or a Sikh or anyone else with a sincere belief system.

Your argument can be applied to any existing religion. What would you say to a Hindu who said the same thing as you but about their god?

Is he mistaken? Lying? Is he actually feeling the love of Jesus? All of these answer can equally be turned around and make just as much sense.

reply to post by Bigwhammy



If I could just add to your verses about Elijah and the Prophets of Baal.

27 "At noon Elijah began to taunt them. (Prophets of Baal) 'Shout Louder!' he said. 'Surely he is a God! (Baal) Perhaps he is in deep thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.' So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention."

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by daysofnoe

 

Which is exactly what a Muslim says when I ask him the same question, or a Hindu or a Sikh or anyone else with a sincere belief system.

Your argument can be applied to any existing religion. What would you say to a Hindu who said the same thing as you but about their god?

Is he mistaken? Lying? Is he actually feeling the love of Jesus? All of these answer can equally be turned around and make just as much sense.

Muslims and Hindus tell you they were filled with the Holy Ghost?

reply to post by Water-tastes-good


Thanks its a great ending!

The ESV translation has made an effort to really translate the Hebrew accurately...

Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.”

Maybe Baal was in the bathroom?

reply to post by daysofnoe

Muslims and Hindus tell you they were filled with the Holy Ghost?

Clearly not, but they do claim divine visitations, miracles, feelings of being overcome by their chosen god, they say that their life has been changed by their belief, that they just KNOW it is true etc.

The experience is no different to what you claim as proof that yours is the one true religion. You’re essentially saying “because I believe it, it must be true.” And the same can be said for any religion.

So what would you say to someone of another religion who claimed all of these same experiences and said that it was proof of their god?


[edit on 7-8-2009 by Mike_A]

reply to post by daysofnoe


Y'see? This is the point we were trying to make....you're the Christian, so you must be right...cuz Christianity is the only one true religion.

I think that if any one religion on this Earth were THE ONE TRUE religion, it'd be so blatantly clear to everyone on the globe that there'd be no need to question it or anything else.

But our creator (who/whatever it is) gave us minds capable of great intelligence and hearts capable of great love and compassion. Now, personally, I think being equipped with both of these (and using them to the greatest capacity we can muster) is what makes us worthy such gifts....not which religion we adhere to.

reply to post by The Killah29


Autowrench:
You make some really good points. I too am against mainstream religion in it's many forms. I have read their Bible, (the Koran too) and I have to tell you, if I lived according to what is taught in there, I would have killed my kids and stoned my ex wife, and would have put to the sword any pagan I came across or anyone who refused to offer up their heart and soul to Jesus Christ, clearly a made up God figure, for no such name existed, or can be spoken in the ancient tongues. A cult Christianity is, always was and always will be. And, they are all in for a big surprise one day soon. Here is a really good place to start when educating yourself about Christianity....jesusneverexisted.com...

Originally posted by starsyren

Y'see? This is the point we were trying to make....you're the Christian, so you must be right...cuz Christianity is the only one true religion.

I think that if any one religion on this Earth were THE ONE TRUE religion, it'd be so blatantly clear to everyone on the globe that there'd be no need to question it or anything else.

Actually it is blatantly clear. Compare Christian areas like western Europe and the United States to the areas that favor pagan gods like India, or SE Asia... and you see the impact it has on societies.

Christianity is the cultural force responsible for modern human rights and scientific progress. It is so very obvious - but some chose to deny that it is because as the Bible says, we are sinful. That's all it amounts to.

No matter how much you want to feign ignorance to live your own lifestyle - You all instinctively know Jesus is Lord.

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Bigwhammy]